ACCount82 t1_j6n1nat wrote
Reply to comment by DMarquesPT in Activation Lock is a great feature, but needs a rethink as 2020 Macs are turned into landfill by hugglenugget
This is definitely Apple's fault. They made a lock that turns a functional device into e-waste and cannot be removed.
If they gave a shit about environment, they would make this lock removable - with removal wiping all encryption keys, essentially destroying all the data on the device. But that's Apple - they only care about three things, and those things are: control, PR and profits.
DMarquesPT t1_j6n325r wrote
What do you mean “cannot be removed?”
What you’re describing is exactly what happens when the user clicks “erase all content and settings”: it wipes the encryption keys, removes activation lock and resets the device to factory settings.
Is your argument that anyone should be able to do this when they stumble upon a locked Apple device? How would it prevent theft then, if the thieves could simply wipe the device and set it up as their own or resell it?
The responsibility is on the original owner to wipe the device properly and remove activation lock if they intend to resell it or donate it.
I don’t understand how Apple is responsible for IT managers not doing their jobs properly
Aperron t1_j6n4c3m wrote
You clearly aren’t familiar with how much perfectly usable material people (both individuals and organizations) discard at recycling depots that aren’t going to go through the hassle of even a single mouse click for something that in their mind is trash and they’re throwing in the garbage. Working LCD televisions, 5 year old computers, appliances replaced because they didn’t like the color anymore etc.
In the past when drives were removable these places would typically pull them and either destroy and replace or run the disks through automated DOD multi pass erasing machines, do a fresh install of the OS and throw it out in the thrift store portion of the depot for $50-100 to cover the overhead of doing so.
Occasionally you’d get the odd stray machine with a bios lock that could be a parts donor for one of the other pallet load of the same machine that got banged up in the process of being thrown away, no big deal.
Now it’s getting to be a majority of devices coming in that are encumbered by some sort of lock, cloud service login or similar (like those sonos speakers that the company encouraged people to software brick and drop off at their local recycler). This is not unintentional on the part of the manufacturers.
DMarquesPT t1_j6n6i0m wrote
I am perfectly familiar with that, I just don’t get the argument that activation lock (a useful security feature that has effectively reduced theft due to its reputation) shouldn’t exist because some users or orgs can’t be bothered to deactivate it.
Just recently I bought a couple outgoing iMacs from work, including a model with a T2 security chip, and IT obviously went through “the trouble” of resetting the device to factory settings and removing the lock. It’s not that hard, and leaves the device perfectly capable of being used by others.
Aperron t1_j6n7hwv wrote
That’s all well and good, but doesn’t change the fact that these perfectly reusable devices are already accumulating and will continue to accumulate in ever increasing mass quantities at recycling depots across the country where there is no possibility to do the ecologically and socially responsible thing and ensure they get a second life as a usable device for someone who isn’t suited to buy brand new.
Rendering mass quantities of usable equipment as at best a token fraction of its raw input material cannot be allowed to be classified as a sustainable practice. Any sustainability labels or accreditations need to be removed from both Apple and any enterprises that demand destruction of depreciated assets if that is to continue. Cut the greenwashing, call it what it is.
Willing_Definition71 t1_j6ndcnb wrote
Its not Apples choice, stop pretending it is
Aperron t1_j6ndvun wrote
Apple created the software mechanism in question, where it didn’t exist before and changed the status quo from one where it was trivial to salvage anything physically intact entering the waste stream for reuse to one where it was in many or most cases impossible.
That’s not even getting into Apples lobbying efforts at the individual state level to implement “sustainable “ ewaste disposal programs where the primary focus was physically destroying any usable hardware as quickly as reasonably possible after being discarded.
Willing_Definition71 t1_j6ne6rg wrote
Sorry you don't understand corporate security, but no amount of talking yourself in circle will make your view popular
Apple devices are more recyclable than most on the market
Aperron t1_j6own56 wrote
Recovering some raw materials from a usable item is not recycling. How hard is that to understand. Recycling when conducted properly has a primary goal of salvage and return to use for the original intended purpose of an item. Recovery of raw material is the absolute worst case last resort in recycling.
Shredding up a bunch of 5 year old computers that are the product of a considerable amount of human labor, energy, raw materials and transportation activities when they still have years of serviceable life remaining is not recycling, and it is not sustainable. Full stop.
Any circumstances making that a common outcome need to be challenged and mitigated. Both on the part of manufacturers and the original end users or purchasing institutions.
DMarquesPT t1_j6nfzc0 wrote
I’ve bought plenty of used Apple devices over the years. That’s how I could afford my first iPhone and iPad as a student.
The only reason they’re accumulating is because the previous owners didn’t do their due diligence before getting rid of the devices. Removing activation lock when wiping a device is not hard.
The worst part of this is misled corporate owners who believe the myth that they have the destroy the computers/drives “for security reasons” when erasing the encryption keys does the job of safeguarding their deleted data on disk.
ACCount82 t1_j6n48d3 wrote
>Is your argument that anyone should be able to do this when they stumble upon a locked Apple device? How would it prevent theft then, if the thieves could simply wipe the device and set it up as their own or resell it?
Exactly that. It's not Apple's job to police for theft. And they definitely shouldn't be doing it if they do it so poorly it turns thousands of devices into e-waste.
DMarquesPT t1_j6n551p wrote
It’s not Apple turning devices into e-waste, it’s users who left their credentials on a computer before disposing or selling it.
If they give you (the original user) a way to unlock it and you just choose to ignore it, how is that on them?
Apple devices are targeted for theft more than probably any other brand in the world due to high resale value. Activation Lock being a PITA makes them potentially worthless to would-be thieves.
It’s only an effective deterrent if it can’t be bypassed by anyone but the original user. Otherwise those bypasses can be exploited.
ACCount82 t1_j6n5ptt wrote
It's definitely Apple turning devices into e-waste, because they designed a system that has its sole purpose in turning devices into e-waste. Then they included it in every new device with no obvious way to disable it, and no way to bypass it.
If they have done literally nothing, we wouldn't have this problem and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
DMarquesPT t1_j6n778r wrote
When you erase an Apple device it says right there “remove activation lock”. Isn’t that an obvious way to disable it?
If they had done literally nothing, their devices and users would keep getting targeted for theft (obviously they still are, but to a lesser extent)
MartinSchou t1_j6nxu7q wrote
> It's not Apple's job to police for theft.
They aren't policing theft. They are deterring theft.
MaoWasaLoser t1_j6o4qhh wrote
> If they gave a shit about environment, they would make this lock removable
It is removable.
Why do so many people on reddit spend their time hating on Apple for shit they don't even do? It's fucking weird man.
Any modern MDM solution will allow you to remove the activation lock before wiping the device.
tristanjones t1_j6n3cz1 wrote
No they didn't. You can wipe the machine and reset it.
ACCount82 t1_j6n44c2 wrote
If you have the original Apple ID that was used to set up this machine. You don't have the original Apple ID that was used to set up this machine.
tristanjones t1_j6n767x wrote
Yes you are responsible to keep track of your keys. This is true for hundreds of services, and essentially all technical services. This is on a companies IT to properly manage their property. No one else
gurenkagurenda t1_j6n60k5 wrote
The way they’ve done it is an actual deterrent to theft, and what you’re describing wouldn’t be. I agree that there’s a trade off with sustainability, and maybe it’s the wrong trade off, but at least acknowledge that there’s value to the customer in the approach they’ve taken.
TbonerT t1_j6nghjo wrote
The activation lock doesn't change the physical properties of the device. You can still take it apart and recycle much of it.
ACCount82 t1_j6ni2zj wrote
Reduce, reuse, recycle. In that exact order.
A usable laptop can be wiped and resold, and could be used by someone in need of a laptop for years to come - reducing the need for new hardware, and reusing the old hardware. A laptop that was turned e-waste by an unremovable software lock can only be torn down and send into recycling, best case. Dumped into an e-waste graveyard in some hellhole country, worst case.
TbonerT t1_j6nuic0 wrote
That’s part of the sustainability, though. Large portions of it don’t make it to the 4th step: waste. It mostly resides in the 3Rs, which is better than most other companies can say.
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