Submitted by PleaseThinkFirst t3_10hyvis in technology
Comments
Badtrainwreck t1_j5cvhdr wrote
Sad that the economy only flys the same way Peter Pan does, worse that these fuckers know it and want the economy to slip into recession so they can pay workers less and profit off a downturn
Complex-Key-8704 t1_j5fucnu wrote
Haha I sure laughed at that
TheLastSamurai t1_j5gyf3i wrote
That and they are trying to tame inflation
underwear11 t1_j5ficvs wrote
Considering majority of inflation was driven by rising corporate profits.....yea.
Also, they over hired and now are laying off the excess to make sure they can keep those profits and executive bonuses.
albert768 t1_j5fyel5 wrote
That is false.
Inflation is the growth of the money supply in excess of the growth in the supply of products and services. 100% of the inflation is driven by the government and government only. Last I checked, only the government can print money or deficit spend into oblivion (releasing money into the market without producing anything).
Slyguybuyfry t1_j5fivvn wrote
Why do you think this? This is not how economies work. It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what inflation is and how it is caused.
Inflation in this cycle is driven by supply side constraints largely, as well as too much stimulus through Covid. Behind that is a labor shortage due to a slew of factors.
underwear11 t1_j5fn6fy wrote
It's somewhat debated in a chicken and egg way, but at the same time as inflation is getting to the highest levels in a long time, corporate profits are also hitting record highs. It's clear that companies are using the increased demand and "supply chain issues" to take in more profits.
Hawk13424 t1_j5haz6p wrote
Companies always take max profits. The question at this time is why can they take even higher profits. The reason is increased demand.
Slyguybuyfry t1_j5fodoq wrote
So no it’s not. Chicken/egg implies causation. All you have is correlation.
EPI is a sus source to link cuz it’s very left leaning in its bias. Probably why they essentially ignore or failed to mention record demand levels. Which would correlate and in many cases cause record profits. With or without an inflationary environment.
What causes record demand?
Cl1mh4224rd t1_j5fya5s wrote
>EPI is a sus source to link...
And you've linked nothing.
Slyguybuyfry t1_j5g01lx wrote
I’m not making the point that needs sourcing lol. Also not sure how linking something is a validation if anything. If you link garbage it just makes you sound silly
But here since you like links enough to make a pointless passive aggressive comment. And clearly have nothing substantive to add to the discussion.
rulesforrebels t1_j5g9i5z wrote
Hey buddy this is reddit capitalism is bad and the source of all the world's woes not shutting the economy down for two years throwing everything off
Slyguybuyfry t1_j5gkmef wrote
Appreciate that I'm not the only one that sees the hypocrisy in reddit echo chambers. That being said do disagree slightly on the first part, think the initial response was warranted until we had more data and vaccines. After that we should have opened up quicker.
Decimator714 t1_j5fqyh7 wrote
I don't know how it's not pretty obvious that printing 2 trillion dollars is going to cause massive inflation...
Slyguybuyfry t1_j5ftiib wrote
Hey it’s easier to downvote with zero economic knowledge and just believe in your feelings instead.
I mean come on. Isn’t it obvious? Companies just decided to charge more money because they wanted bigger executive compensation packages, and consumers are so on board with this that we also decided to buy at record rates. 🙃
rulesforrebels t1_j5g9o83 wrote
Why is this just happening now? Why is this just so coincidentally happening after printing 2 trillion at a time when nothing was being made and produced and trade and movement stopped around the world
Slyguybuyfry t1_j5glfia wrote
Well this is an incomplete take. That is but one factor, that helped drive demand. Through most of the last two years, we've been producing at unprecedented rates.
It's really a perfect storm of stimulus being slightly overdone, as a result demand being through the roof, while supply chains are intermitantly in dissaray, and labor shortage due to lack of immigration and periodic covid lockdowns and outbreaks in the workforce. Plus so many retired early as a result further creating a labor crisis. All that futher compounded by the rise of IoT and lockdown markets driving demand higher on tech. Everything needs a chip yet chip production was still 10 years behind.
Lot of supply side inflation here. Thats why interest rate hikes are taking such a long time to take effect, its an indirect way to impact the situation.
rulesforrebels t1_j5hmg98 wrote
We dont produce anything everything we consume is produced by China and they just opened back up
Slyguybuyfry t1_j5hpveq wrote
Eh depends on the industry. China is a big mfg for sure. Not sure what that had to do with my point tho. I was talking global.
Heron-Repulsive t1_j5em6nj wrote
you always get a recession (sometimes forced) when minimum wages rise to meet the needs.
Can't have that
SpunkyMcButtlove t1_j5id8ul wrote
Isn't it fascinating how this set of man-made laws somehow always does something bad when you try to do something good? I wonder why that is.
Heron-Repulsive t1_j5jcsyw wrote
Because America was never built for equality.
miltonfriedman2028 t1_j5d4kul wrote
After all the layoffs, most tech companies still have more people than they had in the beginning of 2021. Tech companies over hired during covid, and it doesn’t really say much about the economy that they are right sizing now.
matastas t1_j5dro6q wrote
Google hired, like, 26K people last year. Before their layoff, they had 170K employees. They laid off about 6% of their workforce.
I have all the sympathy in the world for the folks who got clipped: it's an awful experience, with no sugar-coating possible. But the media is blowing this out of proportion.
[deleted] t1_j5e5iyg wrote
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sandman8223 t1_j5dipz3 wrote
absolutely right. The press is implying this is a tsunami of layoffs but the percentage of those layoffs to the total tech employment is very small.
yaktyyak_00 t1_j5gxw0s wrote
Just scare tactics by MSM/government to whip the peasants. Have some layoffs, scare people, then they’ll be scared to job hop & stop getting pay raises.
Welcome2B_Here t1_j5esznp wrote
There are much broader effects from headlines like these, though. It's easy to dismiss the numbers on a percentage basis from the sidelines, but the real impact will be a domino effect across communities. Mid-tier companies and SMBs copy what the large enterprises do, even if they don't really have to.
Also, as a side thought, if these large enterprises in the headlines are still making tens of billion in profit, then why layoff in the first place -- especially considering the narrative about a supposed labor shortage and skills gap? No one should wonder why people don't have loyalty anymore.
rulesforrebels t1_j5ga2kb wrote
Plus those 10k or 12k peoppe all took vacations bought groceries and cars paid for services and they now will be cutting back which in turn affects all the businesses they spent money with. Add to that 70% of our economy is consumer spending so that means something
Fair-Ad4270 t1_j5dr8t3 wrote
Totally. The hiring was off the charts, it’s just a correction
throwaway92715 t1_j5dryxx wrote
And about time. It was getting nuts. It was an AI arms race competition for talent.
uxcoffee t1_j5g6l62 wrote
Yeah basically this. It’s not that “everyone is doing it” - it’s companies all got bullish in the pandemic, hired a ton of people and now the revenue isn’t there as the world continues to have rock bottom consumer confidence due to a destabilizing war, supply chain chaos, freight costs, political instability and inflation. It bleeds into every industry.
warren_stupidity t1_j5cz5ck wrote
The class warfare continues. However, calling it a war when one side is organized, united, and clear on objectives, strategy, and tactics, while the other side is fighting each other, mostly doesn’t realize there is a real war they are losing quite badly, and has no clue who is the enemy, is vastly over generous.
tech_fu t1_j5ft5bp wrote
Yeah it really makes me want to join the capitalists, even if they are terrible shitheads. The alternative is continuing to lose and suffer for no reason....
quantumfucker t1_j5ddfnb wrote
…or maybe sometimes businesses have recessions where they have to reign in spending. I know, rich people bad and big companies bad, but this is just silly levels of dramatic rhetoric.
Ok_Anywhere_1791 t1_j5dv43d wrote
And all these tech companies, providing completely different services with the only connection between them being they use the internet, are all conveniently having a downtown at the same time. In different industries. But at the same time. Ok.
Or maybe you don't actually know what you're talking about.
quantumfucker t1_j5dvn1q wrote
I work in tech buddy, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
It’s more reasonable to assume a lot of these big companies threw a lot of money at acquiring and retaining talent in response to the increased use of remote tech services during COVID, only to find the trends unsustainable later on and having to let go of a fraction of the many people they hired.
Compared to assuming that all these companies coordinated hiring and firing employees for what, the hell of it? Just to say “fuck you” to the working class? This just makes no sense. It’s a loss for them.
rulesforrebels t1_j5gakll wrote
I also wouldn't call people making upwards of 600k the working class
Ok_Anywhere_1791 t1_j5dvt17 wrote
>I work in tech buddy
Yes, because every single person that works in tech knows business. Sure.
"Hey guys, I can design a website! Guess I'm ready to be CEO!"
Buddy
quantumfucker t1_j5dw5ks wrote
It’s cool how you didn’t respond to anything I said and just got triggered that I said “buddy” lmao
Also, these companies absolutely have a lot of competing services. GCP vs AWS vs Azure. Easy. Google vs Bing, there’s another.
Revolutionary_Lie539 t1_j5fevdo wrote
That dude/girl/person just refuses to admit Microsoft and Google are competitors. Its laughable that he/she makes a wrong assertion and doesnt know or want to know. Come on man! Email, Office products, messaging, social media (though both kinda failed), data centers, phones, music streaming.
Ok_Anywhere_1791 t1_j5dw86a wrote
It's cool how you didn't prove I was wrong lol
[deleted] t1_j5dwgco wrote
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Revolutionary_Lie539 t1_j5f75ya wrote
Give it up girl
Ok_Anywhere_1791 t1_j5f9dq7 wrote
"Girl" as an insult. You're classy lmao
Revolutionary_Lie539 t1_j5fd95d wrote
Its not an insult. Its 2022 I dont assume buddy or girl as insults. But you view it as one says a lot.
Ok_Anywhere_1791 t1_j5fjzp9 wrote
>But you view it as one says a lot.
Actually it doesn't lol. I just know your type.
Revolutionary_Lie539 t1_j5flf6k wrote
Yet you said it was an insult. MS and Google are competitors with direct competing products like email and data centers. Im the type who can accept a fact.
Ok_Anywhere_1791 t1_j5flur7 wrote
Indirect competition isn't the same as direct competition. It isn't hard to understand.
Revolutionary_Lie539 t1_j5fmstd wrote
Now you are trolling. Server hosting, and email is direct competition. I have used both Exchange and Gmail at past companies. Ive used servers hosted by Google and MS. Its not hard to understand. Keep pushing your narative and goal post.
Ok_Anywhere_1791 t1_j5gkrlv wrote
Ok dude. Jesus Christ, it's just going to go forever...
[deleted] t1_j68r676 wrote
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fwubglubbel t1_j5dvh0z wrote
>Or maybe you don't actually know what you're talking about.
Pot...kettle.
Ok_Anywhere_1791 t1_j5dvigr wrote
Reddit... Redditor
benji_tha_bear t1_j5deony wrote
If unemployment and jobs added didn’t point to this not being a strain to the economy at the moment, I’d almost hear you out. Even though it’s the play of a lot of people these days, I don’t really see your class warfare point adding up in this case..
[deleted] t1_j5bhmmu wrote
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revital9 t1_j5d76aa wrote
There's always a link: https://archive.is/3pBDl
throwaway92715 t1_j5drntw wrote
Come on, they've gotta stop themselves from going under
PracticableSolution t1_j5ewx3v wrote
A guy once told me layoffs are coming when you start running into mediocre people making $400k, and that’s been a pretty solid benchmark for me.
TheRockingDead t1_j5fbquj wrote
And many times, it's not those $400k-earning mediocre workers getting laid off.
Revolutionary_Lie539 t1_j5fja80 wrote
Not wrong. Boeing laid off some good people and replaced with Dell wage thieves. That actually cost more. Shows what MBA degrees are worth.
uxcoffee t1_j5g61b9 wrote
This is primarily a FAANG thing because I’ve worked in the Bay Area for 10 years now in CA in Design - even in director and now executive roles I still don’t make $400k and when I do - it comes from company perf. bonuses( which are not happening these days) and at the height of nonsense in SF - most senior design jobs were closer to $160 to $180k. Not to say that it isn’t a ton of money BUT I have only seen these insane $200k+Equity salaries and comp packages at FAANG companies - the grand majority of tech companies are not paying people like that…
absenceofheat t1_j5hacr4 wrote
I am extremely mediocre sign me up for a year please.
menellinde t1_j5dqxk3 wrote
>Pandemic stocks, such as Peloton and Robinhood, soared and crashed.
To my knowledge didn't Peloton crash because some kids died and Robinhood crashed because they basically hit the panic button for a big bank that was going under due to the gamestop thing?
I feel like both of these were FAFO moments and had nothing to do with the pandemic
inner-peace t1_j5eosix wrote
Pelton drastically over estimated demand in early pandemic and over produced inventory. Additionally could not deal with increased labor costs specifically related to product delivery. The bad press didn't help but there were serious fundamental issues with the business model and handling of pandemic demand surge.
[deleted] t1_j5f3x4b wrote
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glacialOwl t1_j5em1h6 wrote
You are right but, you see, this is the internet and it doesn’t always work according to what’s true :(
rulesforrebels t1_j5ga72v wrote
And because people were only buying overpriced bikes with iPad attached because gyms were closed and they were stuck at home and bored
DeezNeezuts t1_j5f432e wrote
Peloton ruined their customer base by charging for basic services on an already premium product.
Bangkok_Dangeresque t1_j5ha5v2 wrote
Peloton had a huge surge in sales during the pandemic. But they struggled to stock enough inventory to fill orders, leading to long waits. In the meantime, they made bets into expanding into a whole bunch of different markets that compared to the growth they were promising wall street; app-only subscriptions without the equipment, music festivals/collaborations, hotels and gyms, and apparel/lifestyle brands, among other things.
As things started to re-open, they got hit with a high volume of returns, cancelled subscriptions, and the treadmill recall JUST as their production had finally caught up. They were stuck with inventory that no one wanted, and a lot their expansion bets fell flat. In their June '22 results, compared to the year prior their revenue fell by 10% while their costs went up by 40%. Within 6 months their stock was trading -75% from its pandemic peak.
​
Robinhood's initial growth was a right-place-right-time kind of thing. They were one of the few fintech companies that were making a bet on commission-free retail investing, aimed at new/small investors, which they called "democratizing". But because regular trading was free, they earned their revenue by charging fees on more exotic transactions, like options, IPOs, crypto, futures, margin, and other things the average person couldn't really explain if asked to write a one-page essay about it.
Nonetheless user growth was rapid. In Q1 2021, they had something like 18 million users. By Q2 it was 22.5 million. As they explained in their prospectus, there was extraordinary growth in retail investing. A combination of the crypto bubble, meme stocks, bored people working at home hoping to turn day-trading into a hobby, and spike in savings from lifestyle shifts and pandemic relief funds. 40% of their revenue was from options trading. Another 20% from crypto.
Hoping to capitalize on this growth, they went IPO. In their annual reports, they say their chief competitive assets are "Creative Product Design", "Brand", and "Scale". But investors saw the writing on the wall - either the retail craze would slow down on its own, or anyone else could come along and build a good app targeted towards retail. Their stock price fell ~10% on its first day of trading. Their brand took a hit following accusations on order flow and transaction limits related to GME. Today, it's also about -75% down from the initial price.
[deleted] t1_j5f86j3 wrote
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start_select t1_j5f50ae wrote
TBF Robinhood takes all the blame when Fidelity, Schwab, and just about every other broker also halted trading on GameStop.
They were overextending themselves, but they weren’t the only ones doing it. And trading is halted on out of control stocks all the time. There actually wasn’t that much novelty to the situation besides Reddit brigades thinking they were taking on hedge funds.
Revolutionary_Lie539 t1_j5f684j wrote
Wrong. Fidelity did not cancel their buy button.. Im a client.
start_select t1_j5fk6le wrote
Fidelity didnt completely restrict trades on GME, but they did increase margin restrictions on it. Almost every brokerage reacted in one way or another.
Iirc Robinhood, Webull, and IBKR were the main ones that straight up halted all trades. Schwab and TD Ameritrade were restricting volume and margin requirements.
rulesforrebels t1_j5gab1w wrote
Ok so not the same thing
PleaseThinkFirst OP t1_j5bbmp6 wrote
Perhaps management realized that they had hired programmers that couldn't write anything and put them on non-functional teams. If they didn't blame the programmers and let them go, management would have to admit they made mistakes.
The following were some statements I received from management before I retired.
- You'll never get anywhere around here if you care about the quality of your work.
- Tell them you're giving it top priority and your full attention, but don't do any work on it.
- The more expensive printer cost twice as much but would print twenty times as many copies without breaking down. They said that they weren't going to have to pay twice as much for a printer, purchased the cheaper printer, and ran it at ten times the specified print rate. I was pulling out melted parts and there were black streaks on the paper. They blamed the manufacturer for poor quality.
- The customer is too dumb to understand our brilliance. Explain it to him. (The customer was right in his statements.)
- They didn't want to hire experienced programmers because they were argue when it was apparent that it wouldn't work. When it didn't work, I was blamed for my poor attitude.
- Managers spent more time trying to move the blame to other managers than they did on getting their own work done.
I stopped reading Dilbert when the PHB (pointy-haired boss) seemed far more supportive and intelligent than my own management.
throwaway92715 t1_j5dsb0w wrote
In other words, a pile of opportunists scrapping for their portion of negligent VC funding during the late stages of a gold rush.
Get out while the getting is good!
Dissenting_voice t1_j5blypr wrote
My partner and all of our friends work in tech. I work in the restaurant business. I will regularly be in social situations and listen to them talk about work, and to me, there are few devides greater than that which exists between those who are ensconced in the tech industry, and everyone else.
I realize that these a quite different industries, and I would never want to dismiss the work work that my partner puts in on a day-to-day basis, but if there was such a thing as a measurable metric known as “work” - that included things like time spent 100% focused on a task, energy and effort expended, product produced, stress and angst generated, pride in product etc, there would be no question who was “working” more in any given day.
Over the years - particularly the recent WFH years where her commute has dropped from one hour to 1 minute - I have observed my partner’s day-to-day “work” with a certain amount of shock. The amount of time spent on useless products that immediately get shelved, fucking around, socializing, team building games, endless meetings, time off at the slightest suggestion of a cold, time off because the internet is down, time off because the network is down or undergoing updates, hackathons, office event planning meetings, and long lunch breaks suggests to me that the entire industry is absolutely lousy with excess and waste - and that’s before I even mention the insane salaries that she and her colleagues are earning.
To put it bluntly, I am not surprised that the industry is laying people off. I am surprised that they weren’t doing it sooner - and if the industry as a whole really needed to save money, my bet is that they could cut much deeper.
uleekunkel t1_j5bx4vv wrote
I don't totally disagree, but a lot of the "work" in tech is problem solving. It doesn't have a visible achievement meter in a lot of cases until the problem is solved. Experience and intellect can lead to some people solving problems faster, but it doesn't make them worth less than someone who needs to grind it out.
I liken it to a time I had some drywall repaired. It took the guy maybe 20 mins, but it wasn't cheap. It was skilled labor, so I was paying for expertise more than time.
Dissenting_voice t1_j5cafcg wrote
> but a lot of the "work" in tech is problem solving. It doesn't have a visible achievement meter in a lot of cases until the problem is solved. Experience and intellect can lead to some people solving problems faster, but it doesn't make them worth less than someone who needs to grind it out.
This describes virtually all work that isn’t mindless, production line or autopilot work . It really describes hospitality work.
uleekunkel t1_j5ccgfs wrote
Sure, I'm not suggesting it isn't. But there's a difference with hospitality where you have to be open and have people physically present X number of hours per week or you can't deliver what you're selling.
I have a quality bar I have to keep with what I deliver, but staring at datasets has a point of diminishing returns. At a certain point I have to start making hypothesis and designing tests and that doesn't always look like me typing furiously. And it can happen at 9pm as easily as 11am.
There is fluff in tech, there's fluff in just about any large organization in any large industry. But what the work looks like is probably not perceptible except my peers and boss.
For what it's worth I want to break into hospitality (small occupancy hotels)
throwaway92715 t1_j5dsoju wrote
The difference in hospitality is that if you and your team do a really good job, the restaurant might double its profits for a night. In tech, if you and your team hit it just right, your firm could qualify for nine figures of progressive funding and IPO with a multibillion dollar market cap, catapulting the owner's wealth into the 0.01%. Guess which one is gonna pay six figures.
A restaurant is limited by the size of its kitchen, the number of seats, local demand, parking... A tech company is not nearly as limited by scale factors like that.
Tech companies are usually limited by their high risk of failure, but that risk is mainly held by the investors, not the owners and employees. If you can get funding, you can pay yourself gravy for as long as it lasts, as long as you don't violate a contract or screw yourself some other way.
Some are just grifters who are bluffing. Others really are potential billionaires with brilliant ideas. It's a gamble. People gamble when they're flush with cash, and the upper class in the US has been for awhile.
Dissenting_voice t1_j5cd6gk wrote
For the love of god, stay out of hospitality.
E. Lol, ok. Forget what I said. Get in to hospitality. In fact, I will sell you everything! Oh, and be sure not to do any research. Your passion and good idea is all you need.
quantumfucker t1_j5ddmg2 wrote
I don’t think anyone wants to leave tech for hospitality lmao
uleekunkel t1_j5dea8a wrote
If you're in tech and surrounded by coworkers who love their tech jobs I wish I had that.
colinshark t1_j5d4fcd wrote
I shall not
ten-million t1_j5czkj4 wrote
For a while they were idolizing failure, writing articles about how much they learned by failing, even TED talks about the benefits of failure. But not one of them lost their own money. Nobody lost a house. All of it was other people’s money. It’s easy to think you’re a genius when the money is so stupid. Tech bros are a pretty arrogant lot, very similar to young Wall Street bros.
throwaway92715 t1_j5dsiag wrote
Yep. You're not getting paid for working hard and being a good worker. You're getting paid for doing the thing that makes the money go up. That can take 30 seconds or 3 years.
saintpetejackboy t1_j5i5bes wrote
I like this post. I've been developing proprietary software pretty much my whole life and I learned a long time ago to take things at a relaxed pace. I'll work to burnout and crush the tasks of entire teams, solo. The worst part about all of that, though is:
1.) Some management or clients will then come to expect the same performance 24/7/365
2.) Most projects never actually "end". You just unlock more work, known as scope creep :/.
If the task was: "Hey, move these bricks to the other side of that patio", you could look at the pile of bricks and know how close you were to getting finished.
Software development and a lot of other IT jobs are more akin to somebody saying "Hey, move every third brick to the other side of that patio and stack them in the shape of a tesseract", and you look over to the pile of bricks, which happens to just be an endless interdimensional vortex vomiting "brick-like" shapes that make it hard to tell when you've actually encountered the third "brick"... you begin doing all this, knowing full well that there is no way to eventually stack them into the shape of a tesseract.
Battystearsinrain t1_j5eqp10 wrote
Right, X service is down or some business partner cannot do X, you fix it, and that includes troubleshooting, etc.
rulesforrebels t1_j5gb6ik wrote
A lot of jobs involve creativity and problem solving yet people are productive
SlowMotionPanic t1_j5ck32l wrote
And yet these companies are posting quarter after quarter of record profits.
SWE work is typically about results, not time on task.
Columbus43219 t1_j5civht wrote
My personal opinion is that you are seeing the results of companies using non-technical folks to manage IT projects. It started back in the 80s about the same time as I started.
I remember people rolling their eyes at trying to explain why a job failed or a disk needs replacing. Now that's a full time job.
So of course the management now wants to measure everything, and they come up with nonsensical metrics and it ruins the flow for everyone.
Younger folks that come into IT see a bunch of metrics and just try to stay in the game.
DMercenary t1_j5cmneb wrote
> see a bunch of metrics and just try to stay in the game.
And when a metric becomes the goal.... it ceases to be a useful metric.
Columbus43219 t1_j5cv32z wrote
Exactly! We turned that corner about a decade ago. A "good" developer now just writes barely functioning code as fast as possible.
Dissenting_voice t1_j5cn3aq wrote
My mother worked in a call centre where metrics were virtually the only method of gauging a workers worth. These metrics don’t appear to be the only answer to improving productivity in tech, but they are certainly must be some part of the answer.
The trouble seems to me (as an outsider) that at some point one tech giant decided to install pool tables, pinball machines, and lounging chains in the office, and every smaller tech company took it as gospel that these were things that improve productivity. The same appears to go for productivity metrics.
Glystopher t1_j5cxehx wrote
Some shit company founder had office toys installed during the dot com boom, and after a couple months of watching who played with them, fired those people and removed the toys. Shitheads.
Dissenting_voice t1_j5d8rt4 wrote
Ngl, that is pretty funny.
Glystopher t1_j5gesfq wrote
In retrospect , it is. During that, he’ll no. I was let go with the excuse “we are not comfortable with having you on our team anymore”
Was a Christian nutrition mlm, so fuck ‘em. I had also publicly disagreed on dress code decrees to his face as well (no earrings on men?) I became a target. I was so pissed at the guy but he ended up dying 6mo later .
I didn’t do well after losing that job due to the recession and 9/11 plus my inability to cope without excessive partying. I got arrested and had to spend 3 months in county for assault. I was not able to re enter the IT field until 10 years later , and after going to get my undergrad. I can’t stand the certification crap. I now work tech support and development in dementia research. Love the public sector/academia, it’s a good fit.
Theopneusty t1_j5dbpih wrote
I used to be a line cook, and later a shift manager in food service. I’m now a software dev. I don’t work anywhere near as “hard” as I used to but it is a different kind of stress and work.
Instead of the highly physical and social work (dealing with customers) I did before I do a lot more mental work and have to explain things to non-technical managers/clients. While I work less hours than before there is a lot of cram time where I am working all day long. I’m also paid to problem solve. When there is a production issue I have to research and figure out what’s going on.
One issue I dealt with directly affected 60 million people. I had to quickly solve that issue because every minute counts when that many people are impacted. My most used work is used by literally 25% of the global population in some capacity.
I’m not paid for the hours I work (quite literally because I’m salaried). I am paid for my knowledge and ability to solve problems, whether live with production issues or while designing and building software.
commentingrobot t1_j5dfhho wrote
By the sounds of it, you're a good dev.
I've worked at a variety of companies, and have found that for every good dev there are a half dozen who spend their time in meaningless side-quests, doing the bare minimum and then blaming the PM when the project flops, or making mistakes that would be obvious if they'd tried to understand their user's point of view.
Very often I hear people talk about the minimal amount of work they perceive software devs as doing. Can't say I blame them. But I've never worked harder than as a lead dev for a small company, where the product succeeded or failed based on my work. Those who only ever work at FAANG type companies often never learn what that's like.
YawnTractor_1756 t1_j5f0y9q wrote
Have you actually worked in FAANG company, or you're just speculating? Because I worked 15 years in small and large non-FAANG companies, and when I went working for FAANG-level company then comparatively speaking I see that every regular developer in FAANG experiences pressure compared to that of a Team Lead in a small company.
commentingrobot t1_j5f195g wrote
I have indeed
Ymmv in FAANG of course. They're different from each other and they're huge companies which vary from team to team.
houseofprimetofu t1_j5dax6b wrote
I watched my partner, who does recruiting in high tech, do literally nothing but check Slack and still get paid. I was dumbfounded. No software tracking on the work MBP, he was playing Hearthstone and on Twitter being a troll the entire day. As long as he attended meetings (in bed at 11am after having just work up with the sound on loud to hear his name while he drifted back to sleep) he skated by.
Got praised for doing good work. Got handed new projects.
Blows my mind that employees like him earn as much they do while I died making $25 an hour managing a 24/7 vet hospital.
charlottespider t1_j5ex4ig wrote
These jobs aren't the norm, though. I'm a software engineer, and I work 40 hours, plus much more when deadline crunch time comes. I work hard on my off hours to ramp up skills because everything becomes stale really quickly. Like, I completely agree that most workers are underpaid, and some tech workers are overpaid, but no one I know has a job like you describe here.
wooshoofoo t1_j5dqvy4 wrote
Tech, especially big tech which tends to be about software innovation, is fundamentally different than most work.
When you build the right things (according to the market needs) your reward is extremely disproportionate than the second place winner (typically). The network effect of software innovation is extremely strong, and the first to win typically wins big. Google did with search ads, MSFT with operating systems, Amazon with web services, LinkedIn with their professional big data, Salesforce with the cloud based CRM, the list goes on.
This means that companies are always either 1) jockeying to beat their competitors if they have a lot of them, thereby necessitating the race to the top with talent attracting salaries and perks or 2) trying to maintain their dominant monopoly if they don’t have any serious competitors, which still basically means the same.
Couple this “can’t be second place” mentality with the fact that software product engineering really is an art that has not been fully decoded, most executives treat engineers as R&D that they MUST invest in at all costs, especially to compete against others.
This is why you see a race to the top with perks; your partner might be useless or not, but in aggregate these tech folks represent the best chance for their company to win that outsize profitability and dominance in the market for years to come. So yeah, the free lunches and generous time off, the massages and onsite laundry and pet days and mental health days and whatnot are all factored into the calculation that IN AGGREGATE these people basically print money.
This is also why typically big tech cuts everything BUT R&D, so sales and marketing and recruiting go first. It’s also why the rest of the industry don’t tend to pull an Elon and cut R&D to the bone- you can do that in manufacturing because you don’t need R&D to crank out the value but doing so in software is like cutting off your own future money makers.
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Dissenting_voice t1_j5e0f38 wrote
This may be the most projection I have ever seen in a single, poorly lettered comment.
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Dissenting_voice t1_j5e427y wrote
I wonder what kind of insecurity it takes to project all that negativity. Clearly job and relationship insecurity. But how can that be?! You’re obviously such a pleasant and intelligent person.
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Dissenting_voice t1_j5e6ayb wrote
There is also a clear superiority in what you choose to write, which is odd because you are so obviously insecure and write so poorly.
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Dissenting_voice t1_j5e78ah wrote
Be honest; did you get fired this week, sweetie?
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Dissenting_voice t1_j5e7ta5 wrote
Are all of these drinks that you’re demanding to drown your sorrows, sweetheart? The desperation in your comments is palpable.
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Dissenting_voice t1_j5e86n7 wrote
They must have fired you for being too good at this, honeybun.
dark_salad t1_j5d9y8t wrote
The measurable metric for "work" is whatever you're being paid to do by your employer / clients.
>To put it bluntly, I am not surprised that the industry is laying people off.
And you're completely ignoring the fact that it's primarily the FAANG companies that are doing it in a concerted effort to manipulate the industry for cheaper labor.
You're also missing that they're still staffing well above their pre-covid numbers, so while this looks like a downturn -- it's not.
But tell me, how is the restaurant industry doing post-covid? Last I checked, not so bueno.
Dissenting_voice t1_j5dduty wrote
Found the nerve, sweetheart? Set your mouse jiggler up and have a quick nap.
dark_salad t1_j5h5j5h wrote
Says the person jacking off at the prospect of their girlfriend losing her job. Lol yikes dawg.
Dissenting_voice t1_j5hxc3q wrote
Uh oh. Looks like someone woke up from their nap cranky.
Lowfrequencydrive t1_j5dl2cj wrote
I'm design adjacent to tech and one of the problems I saw even during the pandemic around when I graduated, was companies hiring a lot of people without always having a clear, long term need for those roles on the team. A lot of individuals who were really talented, great at their jobs being onboarded to do very little throughout the day or just hang out essentially.
My first company only had about two major clients and when one downscaled (the client shifted their content development internally) it meant half our creative wound up getting let go. They expanded too fast without having a clear need for a large design team.
Even where I work currently, there's an issue with having too much downtime, filler meetings, mandatory in office work, long breaks, alongside not enough concrete tasks throughout the day. So to agree with your points, I think this was going to happen sooner or later. There's a lot of belt tightening within tech, creative entertainment and design.
Dissenting_voice t1_j5dn2hv wrote
I have seen what a slow, directionless operation can do to good employees in the short term. I can only imagine the long term effect this would have on the work culture of an entire industry where this was common.
Lowfrequencydrive t1_j5dnxer wrote
Despite some of the day to day shortcomings, I've had the fortune of learning a lot from my boss in the short/ long term. And it's been a great knowledge + hands on experience in a lot of other ways too. However, it's really organization/ leadership dependent.
I've had the contrast of an org where they were beyond the pale passive aggressive, toxic short/ long term too. So that factor really does modulate the experience. I would never work in the theatrical design industry again for that reason tbh.
Fair-Ad4270 t1_j5ds6hk wrote
You are absolutely right but while it is true for the big tech companies, it is not when you work in startups. My experience in startups was the opposite: crazy workload, high stress all because of general understaffing
Iranfaraway85 t1_j5h069e wrote
Totally agree. I work in Agriculture in a decision making career, I spent a few years working in tech as well and couldn’t believe how little they do compared to Ag. In Ag things have to happen no matter what or livestock/people go hungry quickly. In tech people beat to their own drum, timeframes are never on schedule, or if they do hit the deadline it’s full of bugs that they rushed without testing. Also sucks Ag is low paying but absolutely critical and most of tech companies are useless comparatively speaking, yet tech worker are bringing down $3-$500k and top Ag people are lucky to make $175k after 20 years.
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look t1_j5g0vm8 wrote
It’s the difference in scale. There are times that I can “work” for just 10 seconds and a have multi-million dollar impact. And even the normal day-to-day isn’t like working “in the restaurant business”; it would be more like creating a complete replacement of the restaurant business.
look t1_j5g0w1v wrote
It’s the difference in scale. There are times that I can “work” for just 10 seconds and a have multi-million dollar impact. And even the normal day-to-day isn’t like working “in the restaurant business”; it would be more like creating a complete replacement of the restaurant business.
rulesforrebels t1_j5gb1n9 wrote
This if you got rid of party planning meal planning and events you could probably cut 15% of the staff on those things alone. Tech workers are constantly trying bragging online about how they do 4 actual hours of work per week and some are taking on 2 d and 3rd jobs
azsori t1_j5fj63l wrote
This is just blue collar vs white collar work....that is how it is. You described my work life pretty well with that paragraph, the ins and outs of current corporate tech. Not to belittle you and other blue collar jobs at all, but it is just the different nature of the work. When shit hits the fan, it's up to me to do things like restore internet/tv for millions. One can't pick up what I do in a year of trying to swing it, it'll take a 10 year journey just to play at my current level.
caffcaff_ t1_j5d6qsm wrote
This could not be more accurate.
BountifulScott t1_j5ejvg5 wrote
The layoffs in tech seem to be all about pleasing Wall Street. Microsoft is making billion upon billions in profits - yet they are laying people off? Google is the same. So are many others.
This seems mostly a case of "Other companies cut costs and Wall Street will be angry if we don't cut costs too!!!!"
Frowdo t1_j5g3p5t wrote
Microsoft performed a 7.5billion dollar acquisition for Bethesda. Between the game studios they already own and the ones they've been acquiring there is likely a lot of overlap. While the layoffs are across multiple departments a lot are in the gaming space.
Google just shuttered Stadia this past week or so and likely had a lot of losses associated with paying back all the users. Just as likely is to make Wall Street happy but possibly to make up for questionable business decisions.
BountifulScott t1_j5gyczt wrote
Questionable business decisions are for sure a part of this. Yet the people who made the questionable business decisions remain and likely had their stock jump significantly.
gderti t1_j5ep2w5 wrote
It's an unneeded correction... Alphabet had $16B net income last year... They're no where near losing money... And will start hiring next month because they always do...
These layoffs see for show with real people getting hurt...
Disgusting...
chookatee2019 t1_j5fckpv wrote
it says they are driving down the stock price before they all get their bonuses. then, once they get their exec packages and options they will “allow” the stocks to rise again. the companies have gotten so big that it’s all just stock manipulation to line pockets at this point.
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longhairedcountryboy t1_j5eseud wrote
Who is getting laid off? People who didn't go back to the office?
I have worked at home since the year started with 19 so I miss out on office politics.
cusmilie t1_j5f08uc wrote
Some firings were whole teams that were working on projects that were going nowhere or losing money. Companies transferred a few employees they really wanted to keep and moved them to other teams. Some firings were recruiters and HR people no longer needed as most companies are on hiring freeze. Some firings were those related to sales that were fired due to decreased sales. And then there were firings across the board in multiple departments to get rid of positions not needed where workload can be offloaded to other existing employees.
WA state publishes the amount of employees fired in every company who live in WA. I was shocked at the number of tech employees fired that live in Puget Sound area - it was surprisingly low percentage, definitely less than 20%. So virtual or not virtual didn’t seem to make a difference.
Zeal514 t1_j5exweo wrote
I am wondering the same thing... I'm looking to learn to code now, and change careers in 6 months or so. I want to be out of field service by the end of the year. Gonna be pissed if I learn python, AWS, Java, Bash & kubernetes and there are no jobs for me.
This tech layoffs don't seem to be saying exactly the fields or ppl that are losing their jobs, and it doesn't feel like any large group of ppl are experiencing issues enough to complain, atleast not yet.
SparePartsHere t1_j5f4qrk wrote
Don't panic, there is still a huge shortage of tech workers. Those big companies just hired far too many people (because free money) and had no real work for them. Now that interest rates are rising they have to cut the costs.
longhairedcountryboy t1_j5f1ju8 wrote
Nobody has been laid off at my company. We would hire somebody next week who has the skills to do the work. I think it is scare tactics as much as anything. Big Companies want people scared for their jobs.
Tigris_Morte t1_j5cot93 wrote
Nothing other than the Companies are not your Family and you owe them nothing they don't pay well for.
Itdidnt_trickle_down t1_j5cren7 wrote
It says time to stop working from home serfs.
Derrick067 t1_j5diith wrote
Corporations are greedy
aimanan_hood t1_j5dkqyq wrote
Ahh, the 45th article this week saying something about the economy and layoffs, such cutting edge reporting, what would I do if I missed this
advant525 t1_j5dqbk9 wrote
That layoffs are a cost-saving measure for businesses when the economic outlook is unfavorable?
Shaxxs0therHorn t1_j5f5665 wrote
Article behind paywall
unoriginalname17 t1_j5frdl6 wrote
Oo oo. Oo. I know this one. Meritocracy is a lie and the workers should seize the means of production as well as partake in profit sharing instead of pay outs to investors.
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vuxanov t1_j5e2ydv wrote
Tech layoff say interest rates went up so venture capital money isn’t free anymore.
Individual-Result777 t1_j5ecgx6 wrote
Tech is full of dead weight and low / slow innovations.
treach_lecherous t1_j5ept7a wrote
I have been enjoying the disparity of these layoff headlines in comparison to the Twitter ones. Two extremely different tones.
Why would the media approach them so differently?
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loganp8000 t1_j5eq2gx wrote
Ill lay it down....We're sick of all the dam ads...thats what it says
Mo-shen t1_j5gadvq wrote
It's pretty simple. Hiring exploded over the pandemic and now they are pulling back.
Microsoft is laying off 10k, which is horrible for those people, but they are still up 20k.
noahsarc652 t1_j5jvbh4 wrote
Considering their massive profits, it’s all bull shit to get more investor profits
godspeedrebel t1_j5f80mg wrote
The media is in cahoots with big tech to give the impression that the economy is worse than it is. They are willing a recession in the midst of record low unemployment to contain employee wage growth.
Caraes_Naur t1_j5bi5b2 wrote
Trying to maintain the impending recession narrative.