You must log in or register to comment.

Frazzledsoul t1_ja8wdq3 wrote

There's been quite a few pieces about the behind the scenes troubles of this series. Business Insider claims the show may have spent nearly 300 million dollars for three hours of content. The Hollywood Reporter reported that several writers and producers quit because the Russos had two competing versions of the series and couldn't decide which one they preferred. It's a mess, and the final product likely is going to be...well, worthy of the kind of movies the Russo brothers make for Netflix.


CitizenKeen t1_ja91oje wrote

> 3 million dollars for three hours of content

That sounds cheap?


Frazzledsoul t1_ja91ts3 wrote

Typo. It's actually (allegedly) 300 million dollars.

That doesn't sound cheap to me.


NeoNoireWerewolf t1_ja99udo wrote

That's James Cameron money, and I have this weird suspicion the Russos aren't going to give Amazon the bang for their buck that Cameron would.


SinisterDexter83 t1_ja9lzf4 wrote

The Russos did a fantastic job on Infinity War and End Game, not trying to take anything away from them as I think those two films are an incredible achievement, but most of that money came from the franchise. They've got two of the highest grossing films ever, not because of their skill as directors, but because they filmed the MCU season finale.

Cameron will dream up his own 2 billion dollar movie for you from scratch. I didn't even think the new Avatar movie was all that good, it was okay, I had fun, nothing special. But I'll still go see the next one, because I'm guaranteed a proper cinema experience. Cameron guarantees that, and the audience know it.


Frazzledsoul t1_jaa37sa wrote

IMO, they got lucky with Marvel.

Their subsequent projects have easily exposed their flaws.


Mushroomer t1_jad5vrn wrote

I think "got lucky" is a bit unfair - they seem to be really talented at working with a producer like Feige who has a specific vision he already wants fulfilled. It's when they're given the reigns completely that things get a bit bland.

Throw them on another franchise with clear material to adapt, I'm sure they do something memorable again.


Frazzledsoul t1_ja9n1re wrote

They won't and they aren't going to get that money back. Other than the reports on how much money this was costing, I have rarely seen this project even acknowledged since it was greenlit back in 2019. It has rarely been acknowledged as a project to look out for in 2023 or acknowledged by Amazon. I heard about The Rings of Power and Daisy Jones for months and months.

I find it hard to believe that Amazon considers this a crown jewel at this point and their most promising program. They seem to be starting the PR from scratch.


Radulno t1_ja9xbkd wrote

Yeah lol it premiere in 2 months and we have seen basically nothing from it. They were promoting Rings of Power or even stuff like Jack Reacher or The Boys more and earlier than this show.


bros402 t1_jab3ydw wrote

I took a survey about Citadel back in 2020 (The NDA was 2 years) holy shit I am surprised it is still in production, it was... uhhh... not the highest quality plot outline I read


Frazzledsoul t1_jab60ge wrote

I heard a rumor quite a while ago that Madden wasn't actually the real lead (no idea about Priyanka) and there was some sort of major twist related to that. Can you enlighten us on that one?

I think they were in production for at least thirteen months (if not more) which sounds extremely excessive.


bros402 t1_jab84mm wrote

Okay, so i'm not gonna type out a summary of the survey - but based on what I read + what it was asking me, it sounded a lot like it was going to be Male Spy is fish out of water and Female Spy does spy stuff.


Frazzledsoul t1_jab96x6 wrote

Yeah, that's what the VF article seemed to indicate. The rumor I heard a long time ago was that Madden wasn't the real male lead and it was actually a German actor. I have no idea who the other person was supposed to be.


bros402 t1_jab9uzt wrote

One of the side characters was listed as "a stanley tucci type"

but he sounded like he was going to stay a side character, but who knows

btw, if you want to get the chance to watch pilots and read plot outlines, I get around ~6 a year on a survey site I am on. I have a referral link to it if you want to join it - I get around $5-$15 when I do a TV show survey.


limpoc t1_jac12ns wrote

I'm not the person you're replying to but I would definitely be interested in that survey site link.


Logical-Balance9075 t1_jacleaj wrote

Interesting, could be the male spy has difficulty getting his memory back. But considering the behind the scenes drama with the producers and stuff, I wonder how much has changed since 2020.


bros402 t1_jacqa44 wrote

I hope a lot has changed since 2020, since it sounded a lot like "male spy will be weak, woman spy will be strong independent woman" - not that that is bad, but it was written badly.


Coz91 t1_jaalizv wrote

Well, The Grey Man was so generic and boring. Any hope of this being good is gone for me.


DC4MVP t1_jabk4av wrote

And that's saying something beings coked out/psychopathic Chris Evans is anything but generic & boring.


Halo909 t1_jabpecy wrote

A hundred million for 1 hour? WTF. Didn't the entire lord of the rings series with all the movies cost something like 250m - 300m? Or something close in that range.


kappa23 t1_jabg3k4 wrote

This doesn't bode well for the Indian remake starring Samantha Ruth Prabhu and Varun Dhawan I guess. Though the Russos are just producing it, the show runners are Raj & DK who are superb


horseren0ir t1_jabl7tk wrote

That’s not a remake it’s a spin-off, those actors are in citadel


kappa23 t1_jabllsh wrote

Oh okay, thanks for the correction


Frazzledsoul t1_jad1s3i wrote

I think the spin-offs will be fine but I can't see them doing more than one season of the main show if it's going to cost that much money for that little content each time.


strith t1_ja9r6z4 wrote

I bet this show is going to be fun regardless of it’s past issues.


shogi_x t1_ja8vsal wrote

Isn't this exactly what they bought the Clancy franchise for? Jack Ryan, No Remorse, leading into Rainbow Six, and maybe Splinter Cell?


TapedeckNinja t1_ja991ms wrote

It seems like Amazon has found a gap in the streaming market for the so-called "dad shows", and they're hitting it hard.

Reacher, Jack Ryan, The Terminal List, Citadel. Probably Bosch/Bosch: Legacy fits into that niche as well. They've got Cross coming soon, and that Terminal List prequel with Taylor Kitsch, and a Butch Cassidy show. Probably some other stuff I'm missing.


Frazzledsoul t1_ja9i9sc wrote

The Butch Cassidy show is also a franchise headed by the Russo brothers. This is why I doubt they're tied long term to the main version of Citadel, because they seemingly want to already start a new one.

I don't think this show is a "dad" show, though. It's too internationally focused for that. I don't see the dad types taking to Madden for a variety of reasons.


TapedeckNinja t1_ja9q570 wrote

Well they were originally just producing Citadel AFAIK, and then swooped in and shitcanned the writers/directors and took over the project themselves.

I think the Butch Cassidy show is the same deal, the Russo's are EPs but they're not currently attached as writers or directors on it.

They've got a bunch of projects currently ongoing, including The Electric State for Netflix which they are directing.


kappa23 t1_jabfzd8 wrote

Bosch is totally a dad show, its the only thing my dad has watched on his Prime account


NeoNoireWerewolf t1_ja9dibc wrote

Okay, let me preface this by saying this is one of those, "I know a guy..." stories, so I don't blame anybody being skeptical of what I'm about to say, but I swear, I do know somebody who was involved with Jack Ryan at Amazon, and they are currently working on another Clancy project elsewhere. Long story short, Jack Ryan was dead before the fourth season was even announced as the final one. Hell, it was dead before they even started filming season three. It was a shitshow behind the scenes and John Krasinski is difficult to work with. They fast-tracked seasons three and four to shoot basically one after another because Krasinski wanted out of the show to focus on his directorial career. The odds of him popping up in any other Clancy-related media as Ryan are pretty low.

As for Amazon owning the Clancy "franchise," I don't think that's really correct considering Michael B. Jordan's Rainbow Six movie is in development with Paramount (who unceremoniously dumped Without Remorse to Amazon in the first place), and the Splinter Cell animated show is going to be on Netflix. The Terminal List was a much bigger hit for Amazon than Jack Ryan, and seems like it probably cost Amazon a good bit less overall, too. Between that and The Boys, I do wonder if Amazon is starting to look more adapting newer IP instead of chasing legacy franchises, since most of their endeavors on that front (Jack Ryan, Rings of Power) haven't really been the shows driving people to their service, despite massive marketing campaigns.


Valiantheart t1_jaagy38 wrote

Yeah but Jack Ryan only had one good season. S2 was terrible.


DC4MVP t1_jabk9xf wrote

Are they still going ahead with Rainbow Six?

Without Remorse has to be the most forgettable movie in that genre.


Vizjun t1_ja9u6tf wrote

Ah yes the one of the most trusted spy tools. A shotgun... Can we please get a spy series that's more like Tinker Tailor, or the Americans, or something in the middle.


Cash907 t1_jabdbly wrote

I mean she’s armed with fists of fury, so he’s gotta up his game with some 12 gauge Beretta action.


PetyrDayne t1_jabgp8y wrote

You need to watch The Little Drummer Girl if you haven't already


Vizjun t1_jabh65z wrote

ill check it out, thanks for the recommendation. these were just what came to mind tho


PetyrDayne t1_jabhsh7 wrote

It's based on another le carré book and stars Michael Shannon, the hot Skarsgard and Florence Pugh. I think you'll love it.


waitmyhonor t1_jaf4ym3 wrote

Slough House on Apple TV. Boom, you’re welcome


DC4MVP t1_jabkg38 wrote

Malcolm In The Middle as a spy show?

I'm in.


WhenRobLoweRobsLowes t1_ja8tudc wrote

Good concept, lots of potential, but I'll go out on a limb and say that the two leads are actually the bad guys who contributed to the fall of the titular organization.


Neo2199 OP t1_ja8weqr wrote

Maybe they thought they were working for the good guys, but the Citadel turned out to be an evil organization, like The Alliance of Twelve (Alias), that’s why they set out to destroy it, to save the world!


Neo2199 OP t1_ja8sybc wrote

> When head of Amazon Studios Jen Salke came to Joe and Anthony Russo with an unusual idea for a TV show, they were intrigued by the potential to do something brand-new.

> Salke imagined an action spy show that was the first-ever global TV series, with a main show and then local offshoots around the world, starring local talent. It had never been done before, but that’s what the Russo brothers liked about it from the start. “Anthony and I have reached a point in our careers where the ambition is the compelling part of the approach for us,” Joe Russo tells Vanity Fair. “We’re looking for new ways to tell stories.”

> Through their production company, AGBO, the Russos embarked on a years-long journey to bring Citadel to life. The Amazon series stars Richard Madden and Priyanka Chopra Jonas as elite spies who work for Citadel, a spy organization that has no allegiance to any country. As seen in Vanity Fair’s exclusive first-look images, the high-concept, action-packed spy thriller is set after the fall of the spy organization, when the two agents must attempt to piece together what happened. One of the main problems: Their memories have been wiped. “This is secrets on steroids,” showrunner David Weil says.

> With standout supporting performances by Stanley Tucci and Lesley Manville, this ambitious new series will premiere its first two episodes on Prime Video on April 28. It’s a big, bold swing—and it’s actually just the beginning, with spin-off series already deep into production around the world. “We’re not just creating a story, we’re creating this world that’s spanning countries and continents,” Madden says. “That can be daunting, but also super exciting.”


MadeByTango t1_ja90w2k wrote

Ah, another attempt by prime to push appointment viewing; Nope, especially a spy show, gotta be able to binge and keep investment low


Thongs0ng t1_ja94r7u wrote

Prime really wants to break into “prestige” television on the level of HBO, but they’ve never quite been able to make a water-cooler show no matter how much money they throw at it.

The closest they’ve come is The Boys, but even that isn’t on the level of HBO/classic AMC offerings. I wonder what the missing ingredient is.


NeoNoireWerewolf t1_ja9a9ne wrote

Wasn't Marvelous Mrs. Maisel huge for a couple of seasons? And it got a ton of awards attention. Feels like that is their biggest hit to date, even more so than The Boys, but I'm basing that more off the number of every day people I saw talking about Maisel compared to The Boys, actual data might be a different story.


Thongs0ng t1_ja9e3ss wrote

The other commenter gave the correct answer I think - critical/audience reception kinda tapered off.

And water-cooler show, I meant more like Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon, White Lotus, Last of Us, Ted Lasso, Stranger Things, Yellowstone kinda. Shows that have a strong social and cultural impact - Amazon has been trying hard to get something like that (most notably Rings of Power) for some reason despite their resources can’t seem to make it happen.


Frazzledsoul t1_ja9hdnr wrote

Their main problem is that their audience tends to be older and likely more conservative. They will watch the crap out of something like The Rings of Power and Jack Ryan (The Rings of Power whopped House of the Dragon in streaming ratings every week but one) but they won't talk about it online.

The Boys is their only real water-cooler show, I think. I don't think this show will break the pattern.


Radulno t1_ja9xhx9 wrote

To be fair, if people watch (and sub for) a show, it doesn't matter if it isn't talked about online.


nickb_21 t1_jaa1c6r wrote

But the question is: Did new people subscribe to Amazon because of TROP or did most of them just watch it because they already had Amazon Prime anyway?


astanton1862 t1_jaac2lx wrote

> they already had Amazon Prime anyway

Probably the later, but one of the reasons I keep prime around is because they release 4 or 5 good series a year.


DingoFrisky t1_ja9lfyp wrote

Last season of Jack Ryan really became 'Dad TV'. Just the stuff your dad tells you about


Fawqueue t1_ja9nrfv wrote

RoP didn't beat HotD overall, though. Higher streaming, but those figures didn't take into account the roughly 2mil viewers watching on HBO proper. Factoring the ENTIRE viewership into account RoP was the one getting whooped each week.


Frazzledsoul t1_ja9oqtn wrote

Hence why I said streaming ratings. Point being, TROP was very popular, but not talked about widely online. It was also preferred by "older" viewers (adults 25-54) to HOTD.


Locutus747 t1_ja9alfh wrote

Yea but I don’t think critical reception for the last two seasons has been as high. I’ve only watched the first two and really enjoyed them


wujo444 t1_ja94ltj wrote

Spy shows really took off lately, but it doesn't feel like that quality followed.


Coz91 t1_jaam1x1 wrote

Slow Horses is a phenomenal spy show


PetyrDayne t1_jabglv6 wrote

"Bringing you up to speed is like trying to explain Norway to a dog." Lamb is such a dick but enjoyable to watch


dani3po t1_jaa4mlu wrote

"Bodyguard" was excellent.


ZealousidealBus9271 t1_jab0qvd wrote

I’d rather Richard work on the supposed season 2 of that show instead of this imo.


jez124 t1_ja8vm76 wrote

This will be a hit like gray man and the other cop/military/detective shows on amazon but I hope it's good. While the spinoffs from other countries ideas sounds good on paper .....its all a bit much.

The Gray man was a waste.


Saar13 t1_ja8umbs wrote

My guesses: the critics will hate it; reddit will find failure and argue endlessly; the ratings will be high, better than the "darling" shows, but this sub will not accept it.

Until a new season of The Wheel of Time...


Frazzledsoul t1_ja8xf5m wrote

They're going to need very high ratings to justify the cost of this series. Supposedly the production costs were 160 million at a minimum.

I don't think it's going to be as popular as their other military thriller stuff like Jack Ryan and The Terminal List. No idea how the critics will see it.


lightsongtheold t1_ja8zaun wrote

Why would it not be popular? All the Russo Brothers stuff lately with the exception of Cherry on Apple has been well viewed. To not be a flop Citadel absolutely has to beat viewership numbers for The Terminal List. I’m also pretty sure they will be disappointed if it does not best Jack Ryan.


VitaLonga t1_ja98yip wrote

Huh, it’s almost like people watch whatever’s new on Netflix regardless of quality!

None of the people in this show are draws for the men who are expected to watch it. I have zero doubt that it will do worse than the Terminal List and Jack Ryan. JMO, of course


lightsongtheold t1_ja9b16k wrote

Folks do not watch whatever is new on Netflix. As seen by the failure of 4 of the last 5 English language shows released by Netflix in finding an audience (The Upshaws, Red Rose, Freeridge, and Lockwood & Co).

Amazon also tend to miss with most of their shows. They do tend to do well with older male aimed action shows. Citadel fits that mould. It will also get a big marketing push as it will be Amazon’s biggest budget TV release of 2023. The Russo Brothers will be pushed more than the cast (though the cast are competent and not a turn off to the demo). Amazon have two international spinoffs of this show filming and two more in the works. They are invested in making this show work and getting behind it.


ZealousidealBus9271 t1_jab0ekn wrote

You’re underestimating how massive the Russos and priyanka chopra are in India. I think this will be one of the biggest shows on Amazon.


RunningToStayStill t1_jab7kd4 wrote

Madden was tremendous in Bodyguard. He needs a proper drama role.


ThomasVivaldi t1_ja9qfqk wrote

Why is she holding her arms out like she's got those Black Widow wrist taser things on?


Cash907 t1_jaayzlw wrote

Seriously how much more money does Jennifer Salke have to burn before Bezos fires her ass? Does she have blackmail photos on him? Did he get drunk at a party and touch her inappropriately or what?


dysfunctionalpress t1_ja8w6lx wrote

i'd rather that they had put more effort into carnival row.


im_a_dick_head t1_ja8ydbd wrote

They kind of did, it's just not a popular genre


lightsongtheold t1_ja8zfjn wrote

Sad but true. This sort of fantasy tale is niche even among hardcore fantasy fans.


dysfunctionalpress t1_ja8ziia wrote

how did they "kind of" put more effort into it than they actually did?


im_a_dick_head t1_ja9035u wrote

They put a lot of effort into that show but it didn't get a whole lot of viewers compared to their other shows, also because their main audience is dad's.


dysfunctionalpress t1_ja91qrt wrote

and my comment was that i wish that they had put more effort into it than they actually had. which they didn't do, "kind of" or otherwise.

btw- why does your father have an audience..? are you orlando bloom's kid?


franceha t1_ja9gfcz wrote

Carnival Row got hit by covid more than most, I wouldn't blame Amazon for that one.


Caleb902 t1_jac8qyc wrote

I just want a second season of the bodyguard. So I'll begrudgingly watch anything with Madden in it to scratch that itch


EternalGandhi t1_ja8xeie wrote

The Russos are involved? This will be a gamble.


anasui1 t1_ja9zck8 wrote

did she forget to grab a gun or what?


chilloutfam t1_ja8vhou wrote

Seems like it'll be an easy watch. A show like that, I feel like you can't make it too serialized, otherwise you'll deter people from jumping on. I'll check it out.


im_a_dick_head t1_ja8y7s7 wrote

I'm very excited for this, Madden is a must watch actor.


tuxxer t1_jaedswt wrote

Im waiting for him to get the lead in the next superman franchise


jnhf24 t1_ja9d5yw wrote

I hate how everything needs a million spinoffs nowadays. Especially before anything's been put out.


strith t1_ja9rfl7 wrote

Very excited for this show.


lanfordr t1_jaa8lka wrote

Check out the QR code in the last picture for a Teaser.


[deleted] t1_jaayiv7 wrote



obscureposter t1_jabdzrz wrote

While her acting is atrocious in both her Bollywood and Hollywood outings, she has a huge fan base in India and they will watch.


mickeyflinn t1_jac6n3i wrote

Amazon just churns out crap. It is really bizarre how the service just keeps misfiring.


i81u812 t1_jacft5c wrote

How many times homeslice put 'Amazon' in the title of this post is 'interesting'.


MerrillSwingAway t1_ja9q2b2 wrote

Richard Madden is difficult to watch in anything because he sucks so bad.