Submitted by stumpcity t3_11nvjm7 in television

Spoilers: >!Yes. It was.!<

(Degree of Difficulty: Not particularly interested in the by-now standard YouTube Geek Culture Grift responses about "nu-trek" or whatever, as if I wanted those I could drink heavily and turn off the YouTube Comments Blocker add-on and just swim in Malding Nerd Froth pooping back and forth forever under any given RLM thumbnail.)

The Episode: There's just legitimately great acting going on in here from multiple actors who are not only delivering as actors, but what they're being given feels completely in keeping with the characters as they've been presented to this point, and in context of their larger history in the show.

Also: Frakes' direction isn't just impressive in terms of pacing, but blocking and camera movement was really, really well thought out. This is up there with his work on First Contact (which this season has been overtly referencing quite a bit) but I'd argue this is even tighter and more impressive than that?

AND: I have a hard time believing Paramount isn't going to replace Discovery with a Picard-spinoff set on the Titan and starring Shaw, Seven, LaForge, and Jack Crusher as the primary leads. And based on this one episode, it would immediately become a must-watch on the level of Strange New Worlds.

Now, I understand the inclination to weigh this by whether or not it justifies the two preceding seasons, or the decisions made on other shows by other creative teams, or to springboard into the aforementioned Geek Culture Talking Points about "real trek" and so on and so forth, but I really do think that - all that inevitable mess aside - as a solid hour of sci-fi storytelling, this was way, way up there. Just remarkable work by basically everyone. I loved watching it. What'd you think of the episode?

edit:>! LOL Trek fans in here are just sour and miserable, aren't they. 32% upvotes and drowning, and nobody commenting because the second they're told "nobody wants to hear you parrot RLM Talking Points until your dick gets hard, please talk abou the episode itself" they have literally nothing else to offer. !<



You must log in or register to comment.

shakana44 t1_jbp9bei wrote

shaw is a prick and I love it. this season so far is great. agree 100% that was one of the best episodes of trek I've seen


stumpcity OP t1_jbpa5pa wrote

Shaw has so many amazing lines and they're being served up exquisitely.

I'm probably botching it, but "Forgive me: at some point asshole became a substitute for charming" - that's some real shit right there, LOL.


DoAsIDontSay t1_jbpbkku wrote

It's certainly the best episode of the streaming era by far. It's criminal it took this long to figure out how to do Star Trek properly when they had 700 episodes to use as a reference before inflicting STD and the first two seasons of Picard on us. Between Picard Season 3, Prodigy and, although I'm not a fan, the good reception SNW first season got it looks like things are starting to finally come together. Jettisoning the awful STD is another move in the right direction.


Asiriya t1_jbpommi wrote

Discovery is cancelled! Wowa good news!


Locutus747 t1_jbqedkt wrote

Why? If it’s a show you don’t even watch why would you care? “People lost their jobs because a show I don’t watch got cancelled. Great news”


Asiriya t1_jbqupv7 wrote

Because it defined and represented an approach to Star Trek storytelling that spilled into other series. It was also aggressively rubbish, much like Picard.

I’m watching S3 Picard now and personally I don’t think it’s much better. But if the cancellation is a rebuke of how Star Trek has told its stories for the past half decade - good.

SNW and Lower Decks are much better.

Obviously I’m not wishing ill for the staff and hope they land on their feet.


Guyver0 t1_jbpexyo wrote

Well, Spock Amok exists...


TheNerdChaplain t1_jbrdep6 wrote

I think "best of the last 20 years" is probably hyping it up a bit too much. The show is doing some things well, it's definitely a step up over the past two seasons, and there are some terrific individual scenes - Beverly's confrontation with Jean-Luc in Episode 3 was the best writing she's gotten ever - but I don't think it's "best of the last 20 years". Coming from a lifelong fan of Trek both old and new, here's what I'd say about Picard S3:

  • The legacy TNG characters are getting some really solid writing finally, and some excellent individual scenes. Riker's scene with Picard at the beginning of Ep 4 was terrific as well. Worf's introduction was very cool, but I want to see him get something more substantive as well, and find out how exactly he's a pacifist. (TBF there's something greatly appealing to me about going from a warrior to a pacifist, but we'll see what actually happens.)

  • Captain Shaw is a compelling new character; he reminds me of Lorca. It's interesting to see someone who's not all high-minded stars in his eyes, but who is still just as much a Starfleet captain as Picard or Riker. Seven is also interesting; she has one good line about struggling with the restrictions of Starfleet when she's used to the freedom of the Fenris Rangers. If we end up with a Titan show with those two, I wouldn't be unhappy. (If Shaw dies, I'd be mad. The first episode made me curious about him, the second episode and after made me like him.) Vadic, played by Amanda Plummer (the daughter of General Chang actor Christopher Plummer from STVI) is clearly having a blast chewing the scenery.

  • The pacing is working a lot better. Each episode that raises a problem has it solved in the next episode. It provides a good sense of progression, whereas I think the first two seasons kind felt like every episode threw a ball in the air and hoped to catch them all in the finale. The only really running mystery so far is what's really going on with Jack and his visions.

  • Some may see this point as being a pro or a con, depending on your personal taste. The show is leaning a lot on nostalgia. It was most noticeable in the first episode - that flyby of the Titan with the TMP music swelling was practically pornographic - but each successive episode has utilized nostalgia pretty significantly, if not so openly. I will say, I know they've gotten a lot of the creators and artists from the 90s series to come back and contribute, guys like Mark Okuda and Doug Drexler, and while I'm a little iffy on the nostalgia, I do like that they clearly have a lot of respect for what came before.

  • Raffi to me is still a little bit the weak link. I love Michelle Hurd, and I'm not saying Raffi should be totally clean and not addicted anymore, but I want to see her move a step or five away from teetering on the edge of rock bottom. Centering your life around white-knuckle sobriety and paranoia isn't healthy for anyone, even if they really are out to get you. Similarly with Jack - he's not terrible, but I want to see him make some kind of emotional connection with someone, be it Jean-Luc, Shaw, the crew, even his mother. He's so detached it's hard to care about him. I'm sure there's character reasons for that, but I still want to see him grow.

  • The plotting is still pretty 90s Trek, and still kind of nostalgia based. Why does a nebula have a gravity well? Shouldn't all those gases sink into it? The space octopi were cute, but again - nostalgic and didn't make tons of sense.

But honestly, my criticisms of the show are far outweighed by my enjoyment, so I'm very much still onboard for whatever ride they have us on.


Mikethebest78 t1_jbrnnkl wrote

Shaw's scene on the holodeck is the best scene set on a holodeck since Relics. I don't know how they pulled it together this season but THIS is what a show named Picard should have been like.

Shaw's characterization was great one man at least who wasn't fawning over the old least now we understand the reason why.


jamiestar9 t1_jbpwdxp wrote

No. The idea of Star Trek is that humans and society in the 23rd century are a bit more “evolved” than present day. TNG was really big on this. So was Voyager and Enterprise. I loved DS9 for the conflict, but that conflict was always smart and the shipmates (and even adversaries) respected each other. Sisko yelling was just more excellently written dialogue served up at higher intensity!

Star Trek Picard has precious little of that. The way the officers behave and speak in nuTrek could be pulled straight from 2023’s Twitter or TikTok feed. A changeling “pot” weed joke? Shaw’s behavior in the holodeck towards Picard, not fresh after losing Jennifer Sisko and Wolf 359 mind you, but 30 years later and after Picard has shown he wasn’t in control when violated by the borg and saved the Federation multiple times over. And now the founders (changlings) smoke cigarettes and behave oddly as well.

They had Jean Luc himself drop the f-bomb, so eager were they to finally do that. And “remove yourself from the bridge. You just killed us all.” Riker is lucky Picard didn’t shoot him thinking he was a changeling, so cringeworthy and out of character that dialogue was.

Yesterday’s Trek writers had far more talent.


bernsteinschroeder t1_jbpz9ru wrote

Discovery and Pickard are original (sophomoric, and pretentious) stories trying to wear a Star Trek skin.

Even more unfortunately, since we know audiences still prize the Star Trek sci-fi motif by looking no further than The Orville. I absolutely detest 99.999% of Seth MacFarlane's humor and The Orville hits far more than enough of the sci-fi / Star Trek notes for me to look past it to love (and strongly recommend) the show.


Locutus747 t1_jbq4x9p wrote

Strongly disagree. Couldn’t make it past a few episodes of the Orville. Not at all shocked the show didn’t make it past 3 seasons


Sawses t1_jbqhz67 wrote

I gave up on the series after the first episode. Then I watched a few more years later and it hooked me. It basically morphs from Star Trek parody to the best Star Trek show we've had since DS9.


bernsteinschroeder t1_jbq5bcf wrote

I understand that. They played the (ahem) "humor" stronger in the first few episodes but it then tones way down the longer the series goes.


OathOfFeanor t1_jbx5h36 wrote

> Shaw’s behavior in the holodeck towards Picard, not fresh after losing Jennifer Sisko and Wolf 359 mind you, but 30 years later and after Picard has shown he wasn’t in control when violated by the borg and saved the Federation multiple times over

I could see him still blaming Picard. But we already saw this story with Sisko and it was more compelling! It was his wife too, in addition to his coworkers/friends. We even got to "meet" the wife.

Just bad writing IMO. Out of the entire Trek universe they couldn't come up with a new reason for tension between Shaw and the others.


Whalesurgeon t1_jbpqovb wrote

Sure hope so, if I am ever gonna give Picard a third chance.


stumpcity OP t1_jbpsvu8 wrote

Give it the chance! Especially since you can come to it on a two-a-night schedule instead of having to wait weekly. Episodes 1&2 probably should have aired on the same night, honestly.


Fanfootie t1_jbpzcuh wrote

I think waiting until the season ends and seeing how people thought about the whole season before subscribing, then paying exactly one month for Paramount+ to watch it is perfectly reasonable.


Locutus747 t1_jbq592a wrote

I don’t know. It was good but I’ve enjoyed other new trek episodes too. Definitely the best 4 consecutive episodes since the end of DS9 for me though.


Mulsantir t1_jbqwju4 wrote

I feel I'm going crazy because this episode felt like absolute filler to me, but everywhere I look there's huge praise for it. It felt as though they'd just stuck an episode of episodic Trek in the middle of a serialised TV show. And it wasn't even a particularly good one? Like one of those episodes you skip in a rewatch. Excessive amount of member berries, and that reference in the dialogue to TNG's opening was horrible.


afty t1_jbpm489 wrote

No, and I'm blown away with how much praise S3 is getting.

Is it better then season 1&2? Yes.

Is it good? No.

Still full of plot holes, odd characterizations, tonally off, and soap opera plot lines.


Locutus747 t1_jbqefvl wrote

“Full of plot holes”. Such as?


OathOfFeanor t1_jbw94jy wrote

The Shrike makes that BWAOW sound every time we see it

But sound can't travel through outer space



PetyrDayne t1_jbqditm wrote

It's like a Viking funeral for trash but who cares. They are making SNW the flagship and Michelle Yeoh is still on board for the Section 31 spin-off