Submitted by unitedfan6191 t3_11j3gmt in television
Hi.
Hope you’re doing well.
It’s well documented his opposition to pretty much all the creative decisions regarding his character and it’s extraordinary that it’s been so public even when he was on the show and also after he left the show.
What other examples can you think of where an actor had such disagreement with the creators/writers over how their character should be portrayed - especially when the actor was in the right?
Doran Martell's actor (Alexander Siddig) as well IIRC. I believe he was pitched the book version of the character and was disappointed with what ended on the screen.
One of the worst decision made by dumb and dumber (not counting the last season)
Dumb & dumber 😭😅
If we are going GoT, Varys and Daenarys too
How?
He was portrayed the same way throughout.
He was opposed to being killed and who can blame him, but he could just as easily die in the books.
One of the greatest and most skilled fighters to ever live and fight who served in the Kingsguard with numerous battle experience died in an alley to some amateur fighters. I'd be pissed too
I don't remember the scene, maybe it was shot in a stupid way. But I can say that the idea of an old, battle scarred knight being outnumbered and killed by some amateur butchers doesn't seem stupid to me.
>!Wasn't that different with Geralt!<
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He's a man in his 60s who hasn't seen real combat in more than a decade, and he took down 11 men before he was killed.
People still whining about this are just desperate to find something to complain about in the show.
There's no character arc, It's a pointless death. It was D&D misunderstanding the "whole anyone can die at any moment" thing in GoT.
Robb and Ned Stark was shocking and did seem to come out of nowhere, but when you look back it did make perfect sense for the characters. They really had nothing left to do other than some sort of revenge fantasy plot, which ASOIAF is better than. It's also why everyone saw the Jon Snow resurrection thing coming a mile away, the character had too much left to explore to just end.
And it's why Barristen's death is so silly. The whole Barristan reuniting with a Targaryen only to see another one go crazy would've been super interesting to explore. Instead he just dies to a bunch of random goons for no reason
There is most certainly a character arc.
There’s tons of pointless death in the show and it seems silly to pretend Selmy’s character held more weight than others.
Quite frankly he was always just a servant for the other main characters.
There is nothing he provides except context for last actions which is important but never an ongoing necessity.
You can blame the writers all you want but you still haven’t given any evidence that his character has any chance if surviving much longer in the book narrative.
I don't know what you want from me? I don't have some sort of insight into GRRM's mind to know what he has in mind, nor have i managed to reduce asoiaf into a formula to predict events happening.
All i can say is that Barristan almost definitely has an arc. It's tied to dany of course, but he basically legitimises Dany by comparing her to Rhaegar. If we accept the mad queen theory is canon, the way Barristans arc ends definitely impacts the build up of that narrative. I'm not saying he'll survive much longer, but his death has to be better than dying to some random goons for no reason
I didn’t want anything from you.
I made a true statement and people are acting like he’s supposed to be the hero of the show for some reason rather than what he very clearly was throughout- a side character.
Being upset about that is not something I have much control over, so until someone comes up with a storyline that indicates how crucial he continued to be in the story, I’ll just accept the notion that many disagree with my sound assessment and move on.
He's still alive in the books past where he died in the show and is Hand of the Queen, not Tyrion.
Tyrion isn’t at that point in the book.
The storyline is different but the circumstances aren’t. He is literally heading out of the gate to face a mercenary army of thousands.
Tyrion is still a slave.
Might not really be opposed but
The therapist on Lucifer hated her character development, or lack of development.
Pretty sure she told the writers to stop making her character have sex with lucifer and actually give her something to do other than remove her clothes, they listened at least.
Linda was horny af earlier in the show.
To be fair, the (d)evil protagonist going to a therapist is a trope from The Sopranos that was ran into the ground by The Sopranos. Having her just be a hook up is a good idea to be a subversion of it if the show isn't running longer than a season.
The Breaking Bad writers wanted Skyler to be completely clueless about her husband for the entirety of the show. Anna Gunn pushed them to change it because it was ridiculous.
And for all the hate she got, imagine how much worse the show would be if the writers had gotten their way.
Great example, she became a much more interesting character once she found out and at some point not finding out would have made her really really stupid
Skyler got a bad hand from the start.
Like we see walter working too jobs then coming home and getting a disinterested handjob on his birthday.
I am glad they improved as kim was great
Exactly, the character was written as unlikeable from the get go and the writers, for as much as they were highly skilled, want to push all the Skyler hate off onto their audience when they put that stuff on the page from the get go.
Katherine Heigl basically got fired from Greys over it. Her statements about Knocked Up have aged pretty well too even though it looked bad for her at the time.
Even if she was right it was not a smart move, career wise.
She must have known Shonda would get angry when a character from her show was up for an award and she just refused because the writing was bad.
Heigl was right tho, season 4 izzie was never winning an emmy, but she should have just taken the nomination.
Shonda was a spiteful fuck too, suddenly Heigl got "reputation for being difficult" afterwards.
To be fair, a lot of other coworkers/crew have confirmed she's horrible on set for multiple projects - and her mother is even worse. But yes, those guys have also been just as toxic, and in other sets.
Do they need to be adaptations to qualify? Harrison Ford had multiple ICONIC ad libs for Han Solo that were opposed by Lucas at first. John Boyega was pretty critical of his character and the Star Wars trilogy sequels as a whole, even during press tours.
Boyega has a legitimate complaint... I've never seen a character start as a primary protagonist, and then slowly get sidelined into irrelevance
My first thought was Mark Hamill with the new trilogy.
Mark Hamil in The Last Jedi
Yeah I think this is a prime example.
Love Mark but thoroughly disagreed with him on this. But thats fine, I just don't think he is interested in taking his character through any new character development.
Idk if I would call it character development. It’s definitely different that’s for sure.
No fans really were. Most were more interested in nostalgia trips like The Force awakens
Plenty were, and thats why its well reviewed and made a lot of money. But theres definitely fans who didn't want his character or story to progress.
Box office for a franchise like this with a captive audience generally has nothing to do with the content of the movie, people who are invested in the story are going to check it out regardless of what word of mouth says. I've always said that box office for a franchise like this is more of a reflection on whether people liked the last one.
Like, this happened a couple times in DC, where Batman vs Superman is successful because of the brand, the title, and the trailer, but if people didn't like the movie they're not going to turn up for Justice League. Same deal with Suicide Squad, if they don't like the Ayer movie, they're less likely to check out the Gunn movie. And then in Star Wars, surprise surprise, Episode IX's numbers were down 25-30% compared to VIII.
IX had terrible word of mouth and reviews coming out the gate. It absolutely affected it.
Perhaps, but I'd say that it would have only impacted people who were on the fence about seeing the movie. The bigger problem Lucasfilm had was that so many more people were on the fence this time, because they didn't like the last movie.
Poor word of mouth is never going to talk you out of watching a movie you're genuinely excited for.
Well I can only speak for myself as a huge star wars fan, but when I heard the word of mouth, it sounded like they butchered the story and it made me not see the movie for weeks.
After the first two movies got in the sequels had great reviews from critics and fans, there seemed to be a consensus already forming before the third even released that they totally flopped on the ending. None of my friends were interested in going.
And what I'm trying to say is that the "consensus" that was forming before the third even released was not just a reflection of the content of IX, but of the state of the franchise following the release of VIII.
A year before TFA released, people were excited for the return of the beloved franchise. A year before TLJ released, people were excited for the story to continue. A year before RoS released, people had a bad feeling about this. And when reviews came out that agreed with their bad feeling, it impacts the movie.
Who gets to decide if the actor is in the right or not?
Maybe not exactly in the right, but just on the same side as most of the show's audience. Seeing what the fans want. Acknowledging that the character isn't written well or needs more development.
That's pretty hard to determine. You'll hear a lot in online gamer echo chambers that Cavill was in the right, but critical reception of season 2 was better than season 1.
Similar things with Wheel of Time and Rings of Power. They were massive ratings hits despite the diehard fans of the source material having online conniptions.
By what metric are we calling them "ratings hits"? Obviously the network was happy enough with them to continue but as far as I can tell Amazon, like most streaming networks, just keeps the complete picture to themselves, only cherry picking data to share for marketing purposes.
Like when Netflix will tell you that a show is incredibly successful when it premieres because there were so many streams, then a month later it's cancelled.
Enough people watched them to justify their 10-figure costs.
Amazon said that Wheel of Time was top 5 for viewership for Prime Video. Rings of Power is #1.
Neither of those are really ambiguous statements.
Chevy Chase hated how Pierce was portrayed and was apprently extremely difficult to work with.
I don’t know who was right on this one.
On the one hand, the press making you out to be a racist diva that made the set toxic is pretty fucked up, especially when Harmon was drunk half the time and sexually harassing his writing staff the other half.
On the other hand, I genuinely think that Pierce was the best written and most developed character on that show. Which makes his complaints about the writing seem pretty hollow.
he disliked his character become more and more racist.
Also he's a straight asshole to everyone. In season 1 he was annoying but he had some good qualities, he was a straight villain in season 2/3 to the point you question why they all tolerate him
yeah
Which he expressed by dropping the N word on Donald Glover?
reread the context of that
Yeah because you can tell when Joel McHale talks about it in interviews he’s very polite. I imagine a good day with Chevy is tolerable.
He's always hard to work with.
Denise Crosby as Tasha Yar in the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation
They did right by her though.
Permission granted.
Not in TV but Mark Hamill was really against Luke Skywalker's arc in The Last Jedi.
I think he was specifically against Luke's starting point more than the arc.
Shailene Woodley and The Secret Life of the American Teenage.
I think India Eisley as well.
Curious, was it because they turned Amy into the villian and Ricky into the good guy?
Loved Ashley and George. They were hilarious.
“There were a lot of things that were written into the scripts that not just me, but a lot of the cast, disagreed with,” said Woodley of the show’s anti-sex plotlines. “There were belief systems that were pushed that were different than my own. Yet legally I was stuck there.”
https://decider.com/2020/04/22/shailene-woodley-secret-life-american-teenager-stuck/
A lot of the cast on GoT S8 seemingly disagreed with the way their characters were written. The most famous examples being Kit Harington, Emilia Clarke, Conleth Hill, Lena Heady, Nikolaj Coster Waldau.
Dragon ball evolution the main actor knew that goku in the movie was not accurate at all and wanted a change but they didn't listen
This. Chow Yun-fat and Randall Duk Kim regret being in the movie when they realize Stephen Chow would be producer in name only.
Roger Howarth on One Life to Live is a classic example: https://slate.com/podcasts/decoder-ring/2021/06/one-life-to-live-todd-manning
That's a good one. At one point they were selling Todd Manning merchandise.
I’m not sure who was right in this one but Julianna Marguiles was supposed to a featured guest on Good Fight but wanted the same pay scale as she had in Good Wife for her appearances.
Producers said no, but the end result was she was basically given a new personality in a scene where she just stopped talking to her friends, her best friend was a lead in Good Fight, and then eventually moved to New York.
The funny thing is it almost matches up with the changes she was going through in Good Wife’s final season. lol l
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What what?
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John Amos in Good Times
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I think Henry's decision to leave The Witcher had much less to with creative differences than the dollar signs he saw from playing Superman again. He likes money more than he likes The Witcher.
When Maisie Williams laughed out loud over the Arya sex scene in the final season of GOT.
Are you sure? Going off memory, I think I remember reading an article, something like, she wanted a sex scene for Arya?
Arya wouldn’t have sex?
Honestly; age issues aside, probably not. She's such a broken singleminded person by then, I don't think she's capable of that kind of intimacy. She's enormously traumatuzed, no one in her life since her mother died has shown her any sort of physical affection, even something as simple as a hug; and her training as a Faceless Assassin is designed to completely dehumanize her.
Yeah, broken people never have sex. This feels like a weird take.
It's almost like that was only one of many contributory factors.
It's the desperate need by the GOT haters to oppose everything about the show.
Arya is the most level headed Stark.
She hasn’t had a story that focused on intimacy before and Gendry was a connection strong enough for people discussing them throughout the entire run of the series.
People tend to say the same thing about Sansa and it comes across that people equate trauma with asexuality when plenty of people who have faced trauma also have sexual desire after the trauma.
That's book Arya. Show Arya is much less psychotic.
Didn't she request that the scene be written?
God that scene was so god damn unnecessary, It was so awkward. Between Gwen and Arya it felt like Dumb and Dumber realized we haven't had literally every single female character fucking on set and made sure to fix that in fell swoop.
Once Arya returned to Winterfell all her scenes were awkward
The Witcher flopped and someone has to take the blame.
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but Cavill is a dork. he could be a purist LOL. fanboy ragequit :P
gives his own performance 2 stars because it's "not faithful"
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Henry Cavill has already shown love for WoW and Warhammer: Here are all his favorite games
https://dotesports.com/general/news/here-are-all-henry-cavills-favorite-games
Of course, the actor playing Geralt of Rivia must play the games. Cavill shared that he played the games and read the books as research for The Witcher series and thoroughly enjoyed them, how could he not?
LightThatIgnitesAll t1_jb16p5q wrote
Barriston Selmy