OddFeature t1_iuatei3 wrote on October 29, 2022 at 10:14 PM

Reply to comment by xarabas in Bryan Fuller Says Accusing ‘Hannibal’ of Queerbaiting Is ‘Cynical’ by i_love_anachronisms

Quote from the article:

> “So many things are twisted and convoluted. There’s so many things that people latch on to with their own devices to make themselves relevant and rational,” Mackie said. “The idea of two guys being friends and loving each other in 2021 is a problem because of the exploitation of homosexuality. It used to be guys can be friends, we can hang out, and it was cool. You would always meet your friends at the bar, you know. You can’t do that anymore, because something as pure and beautiful as homosexuality has been exploited by people who are trying to rationalize themselves. So something that’s always been very important to me is showing a sensitive masculine figure. There’s nothing more masculine than being a superhero and flying around and beating people up. But there’s nothing more sensitive than having emotional conversations and a kindred spirit friendship with someone that you care about and love.”

Honestly kinda a weird and confusing take from him. I also want more sensitive straight guys, but there’s literally nothing remotely problematic about wondering if two sensitive dudes wanna fuck each other. I think he’s really overthinking it here and to be honest he does come across as pretty defensive and a little resentful of anybody that thought they might be gay—but whatever it’s just some random quote and doesn’t really matter much.

Also I can’t speak for everyone, but I personally just thought they might be gay because of that scene where they land on top of each other and also the therapy scene where they intertwine legs—which I personally read as similar to the romantic tropes you might see between a man and a woman. Me thinking they might be gay had nothing to do with their sensitivity or how deep their friendship was, I just genuinely thought the writers might be setting that up by including those tropes.

Edit: Curious what people disagree with here that is causing them to downvote. Feel free to leave a comment if you wanna have a discussion.

pasher5620 t1_iubegrn wrote on October 30, 2022 at 1:01 AM

People are downvoting you because you are doing what Mackie was arguing against. You’re taking things that are not explicitly gay (I.e. two men being close as friends) and turning it into them potentially being gay. The issue is that those tropes are seen as explicitly romantic when it should be instead viewed as intimate instead.

OddFeature t1_iubh3hw wrote on October 30, 2022 at 1:23 AM

Fair enough—I mostly disagree with Mackie’s point so that tracks. I just don’t see what the issue really is with interpreting a close male friendship as maybe being gay. It doesn’t invalidate the friendship in any way and I feel like he’s in some ways taking gay relationships a bit too seriously and inadvertently misrepresenting what they might actually look like in reality.

Like this comment he made about homosexuality is a little weird

> something as pure and beautiful as homosexuality

Gay dudes that are dating each other often have a deep friendship that in a lot of ways might resemble a deep friendship between two straight dudes. That’s all I’m really saying here. Like cool, they didn’t end up being gay and that’s fine—I just take issue with the implication that thinking they were gay really means anything or lessens the impact of their bond or really just says anything at all about straight male friendships. It’s just kind of a fragile and insecure take and I found it a bit disappointing.

DMPunk t1_iubk7by wrote on October 30, 2022 at 1:49 AM

The issue is that people see close male relationships as ONLY being gay. The idea that emotional intimacy with a male friend means you want to fuck them is why so many men have difficulty being emotionally open. It's a core component of toxic masculinity

OddFeature t1_iubol6y wrote on October 30, 2022 at 2:26 AM

I don’t disagree at all that emotional openness being seen as gay is a core component of toxic masculinity, but the best response to toxic-masculinity-fueled accusations of gayness is simply to be unbothered by accusations of gayness. The issue is the toxically-masculine viewpoint of gay = bad.

Also I more or less disagree that people see close male relationships as ONLY being gay. I personally don’t think that, for whatever that’s worth.

MagicTheAlakazam t1_iucut7t wrote on October 30, 2022 at 11:01 AM

You're right despite being downvoted.

The writers i think intentionally queer baited in this show and then Mackie doubled down with being offended that anyone interpreted his character as queer.

Like it was a bad situation and Mackie came out looking awful.

OddFeature t1_iueb7yk wrote on October 30, 2022 at 6:00 PM

Ya, agreed to an extent. Though I don’t personally put too much stock into “queer baiting” as a concept, as it implies an intention from the writers to deliberately trick the queer community into watching the show. I think the more likely scenario is actually that a heteronormative writer’s room just thought it would be funny if two straight dudes fell on each other or had to go through couple’s counseling and wasn’t thinking about how queer people would perceive it at all. That seems even more apparent when reading Mackie’s response, as he seems to be speaking directly to who he perceives as the intended audience for the show—straight dudes.

ChristopherCaulk t1_iudc0g5 wrote on October 30, 2022 at 1:55 PM

How the fuck did the writers queerbait on that marvel show???? Did we watch the same thing or were you watching some xxx parody? I don't think anyone with common sense thinks he came out looking awful, quite the opposite.

MagicTheAlakazam t1_iudelf2 wrote on October 30, 2022 at 2:15 PM

The couples counciling scene and the fall on each other through the field scene would be setting up romance if you switched one of the genders.

Also look up what queer baiting is. It is by default hinting or doing some subtle setups that the queer community will pick up on to interest them while going over the heads of straight conservative viewers with no intention of actually delivering on the relationship.

Queer baiting is designed to look like nothing when viewed by a heteronormative audience. See bbc sherlock, dean and castiel on super natural or rizzoli and isles.