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HortonHearsTheWho t1_iu9l8l7 wrote

I’m more interested in your thoughts on endings, George


Fuzzikopf t1_iu9ptxz wrote

I wish he would just come out and say that he's not gonna finish the books. It would also finally put an end to people (including me) getting annoyed/frustrated when he "wastes" his time doing other stuff.


JeffTek t1_iu9s1s0 wrote

Why would he come out and say something that currently seems to be untrue? He's been more open an optimistic in the last 6 months than he has been in the previous decade.


Fuzzikopf t1_iu9uc4g wrote

He has been optimistic about the books being finished before, so if you take all his missed deadlines into account it really doesn't mean anything.

Unless he is secretly writing two (or more) books at the same time, I don't see him being able to finish either of his unfinished series in the ASOIAF universe.


Oh_I_still_here t1_iua4qus wrote

In a recent interview he's said that the Winds manuscript is, by his estimate, 75% done. He says he keeps revisiting chapters he's closed on and not liking how they are so he rewrites them, he admitted it's a problem but that when it's done it's done and that Winds is easily going to be bigger than Dance. But he knows the day it comes out that he will get asked "Where's A Dream of Spring?"

I think he's got all the plot points done, character arcs done too, or mostly done. So it's just a case of doing it and cranking out the pages. What he worries about is his publisher pushing back on him to make some changes or to split the book in two.


[deleted] t1_iuaalem wrote



Unbannable6905 t1_iub718d wrote

He wants to do a time skip but a time skip brings with it its own issues. This is exactly why he's stuck; there's no elegant way to move the story along


Act_of_God t1_iub8fnx wrote

I never understood why ha didn't just timeskip dani alone, it's not like her story is really connected to everything else


Unbannable6905 t1_iub9avw wrote

How would that work? You have to time skip everything


Notarussianbot2020 t1_iuc30p0 wrote

He could pretend her timeline was separate than the other characters. But that wouldn't make sense when Tyrion meets up with her.


Act_of_God t1_iub9lt1 wrote

because dany's events are far removed from what happens to anybody else you can just write her attacking KL and nobody would bat an eye, I doubt anybody really cares about the mereneese knot.

I understand it's hacky writing and really devalues the whole thing, but I just hope he wraps it up in his lifetime


TheDuckQuacksAgain t1_iuc174w wrote

King Rob talked about the events going on all the time with Daenerys. It's not that far removed.


Act_of_God t1_iuc30jn wrote

yeah but that's in book 1, her most recent story isn't really that well connected


Fuzzikopf t1_iuaa7se wrote

> What he worries about is his publisher pushing back on him to make some changes or to split the book in two.

This is a joke, right? TWOW is going to be a massive bestseller, his publisher can't wait to finally get that cash. They might want to split the book in two for profits, but who cares. And even if they split it, I don't think we'll get another AFFC/ADWD situation.


Hi-Hi t1_iuadcfz wrote

He estimated he was a few months from finishing it years ago.


VitaminTea t1_iuai0s1 wrote

I don't know why people have these bizarre conspiracies about George and the books. He is writing them. It's taking a long time. That's the truth.


JeffTek t1_iuanasq wrote

Yeah I don't understand it either. I know it's been a long wait and it wouldn't surprise me if there were several long periods of time where he was not making progress, but it's clear that right now (and the past two years or so) he has been moving along nicely. I am done making predictions on release dates, but it does feel like he's getting through it now.


vadergeek t1_iuc9f3s wrote

It's not much of a conspiracy to question whether he'll ever finish when it's been a decade, he can't stick to a schedule, and he's an old man.


HardcoreKaraoke t1_iuboezx wrote

Well what premiered in the past six months that may have needed some hype?

GRRM was also optimistic when GOT was airing. He wants fans to be hyped about the universe. He wants them to think a conclusion is coming soon. But really he is just marketing the show, which is smart. That's why he was suddenly optimistic around HOTD premiering.


McFeely_Smackup t1_iubyr8h wrote

Ok, but how big of a chump would we have to be to believe THIS time he means it?

He's made promises over and over and failed to deliver.


dontthrowmeinabox t1_iuag7xe wrote

The thing is, I think he still thinks that in the back of his head he's going to finish it some day.


Every_Repair973 t1_iua1445 wrote

People saying "finish the book before you die" are the most selfish people on the planet


Fuzzikopf t1_iua9z8i wrote

It's definitely selfish, but GRRM is partly at fault for giving deadlines and not following up on them, multiple times.

I can totally understand that he likes to do other stuff, but I think he should at least be honest with his fans about it.


emergensy t1_iuaoflo wrote

Writing is not the same as accounting or sewing. It’s a creative process that takes inspiration to do like any other art. Maybe he just couldn’t do it, maybe something in his life happened that blocked his mind from going to the place where his stories happen and he just couldn’t connect with the world he created for some time. It’s unfair to demand something from a creator that he cannot control.


Quinoacollective t1_iugj18h wrote

As an author, I don’t agree. There’s nothing about writing, or any creative pursuit, that makes it somehow magical and different. It’s just a job like any other.

I think people talk about ‘inspiration’ and ‘the muse’ and ‘writer’s block’ to avoid the simple fact that writing is work, and human beings don’t really like to work.

None of my novels ever got written by sitting around waiting for The Muse. It’s a habit; pen to paper every day. Hard work and discipline are mandatory. Magic inspiration dust is optional.


emergensy t1_iugk45j wrote

Well with all due respect you’re not A Song of Ice and Fire author and equating yourself just because you also write is a stretch.

People talk about writing and other products of a mind that need to exercise imagination like this because imagination is a muscle. Once you hurt your muscle you can’t run for a time and mental health matters. You don’t know him.


Quinoacollective t1_iugwzi1 wrote

No, I didn’t write ASOIAF, but I do feel somewhat qualified to comment on the profession we share and which I teach to students.

I can’t comment on his mental health. Don’t know his personal circumstances. All I know is that the idea he can’t finish his series because of ‘inspiration’ is complete rubbish.


emergensy t1_iugxqh2 wrote

“Inspiration” is essentially a headspace that is connected to mental health first thing, if you conceptualize it in a way that sounds legit. As someone who published both research works (and could do that even in the worst times of my life because it’s simply work) and fiction, that I did struggle to retrieve at times, because going to the headspace of imaginary worlds and events when people close to you suffer is challenging and there is a block, I can tell you that it absolutely is not “rubbish” and you have no authority to speak on it whatsoever. The greatest minds of civilizations couldn’t finish their works, destroyed it, destroyed themselves over it, but sure, it’s rubbish lmao


EmperorBeaky t1_iuabj27 wrote

He should pull his fucking finger out then the lazy lump


Ooften t1_iuakmui wrote

If only he enjoyed writing as much as he loves talking about his writing.


Zalack t1_iugrq1z wrote

He does. He is still writing a ton. I just think he's lost the passion for A Song of Ice and Fire.


Asticot-gadget t1_iubzmc4 wrote

He's been writing Winds of Winter for the last 11 years with no end in sight it's not even supposed to be the final book in the series. The guy is 74 and very overweight, it's very unlikely that we'll see the end of this series (unless someone finishes it for him posthumously I suppose).


spyson t1_iua2xim wrote

All these comments about the ending or finishing the books, you do know George is not going to read any of it right?


Beingabummer t1_iuae1vc wrote

Well done, you figured out the internet.


spyson t1_iuainh8 wrote

That it's all karma farming stupidity, yes.


Ooften t1_iuaksps wrote

This comment white knighting George, you know he’s not going to read it right?


spyson t1_iual3ai wrote

White knighting? What are you an incel?

I just want actual topical discussion instead of blatant karma whoring that doesn't add anything to a discussion.


Ooften t1_iualdmh wrote

Oh. Oh shit! I didn’t realize I was addressing the ultimate authority on Reddit on what qualifies as actual topical discussion instead of blatant karma whoring.

All these years I thought you were just a myth but here you are, being an obnoxious whiner live in real time.


spyson t1_iualqeq wrote

Where did I claim I had any authority? Why did you suddenly get triggered, must have hit a sore spot when I called you an incel lmao


Ooften t1_iualwal wrote

lol so caught up in your incoherent nerd rage that you don’t understand I’m matching your energy.


comrade_batman t1_iu9nylh wrote

As a book reader it would have been very interesting to see Princes Aemon and Baelon before they died and see how Jaehaerys’ succession crisis was handled by a previous generation of Targaryens and nobles. However, what we got was enough, the cold open of the Great Council, the simple narration of what had happened and starting just before Queen Aemma’s death was completely adequate.


MrBoliNica t1_iuahnbt wrote

Baelon was my favorite character from the book, and I loved that he and Aemon had what is probably the only “normal” sibling relationship full of love and admiration, in all of thrones (outside of maybe the starks lol).


comrade_batman t1_iuaj3jh wrote

I always swing back and forth between Aemon and Baelon with which one I like more.


Nightmare_Pasta t1_iu9t8so wrote

I also wanted to see Baelon and Alyssa 😂 Alyssa especially dragging her two toddlers to ride on dragonback


comrade_batman t1_iu9vxao wrote

Seeing baby Viserys and Daemon would have been adorable.


pco45 t1_iuawbzk wrote

I was under the impression there was a big age gap between Viserys and Daemon.


comrade_batman t1_iuax61p wrote

The show doesn’t state the age difference but in the book there is a 4 year age gap.


pco45 t1_iuaxci5 wrote

Yeah I searched for it immediately after my post. I thought I heard a character on the show reference the age difference, but I'm not going to rewatch to see if I'm right.


Hic_Forum_Est t1_iuaik2c wrote

I would have loved to see more of Jaehaerys purely because in the book he came across as such an amazing king and great man, that the showrunners/GRRM probably would have found smart and interesting ways to show that he wasn't as perfect as the book potrayed him to be. Same goes for his wife Queen Alysanne.


kingofstormandfire t1_iuajxbm wrote

I dunno about great man. Jaehaerys was a great king but kinda a shitty dad, especially to his daughters.


Hic_Forum_Est t1_iuangir wrote

Compared to most other Targaryen men, he definetely came across as a saint. The ficitonal author was constantly full of praise for him. Him being a not so great father to his daughters is probably the worst thing about him that was mentioned. And even that was maybe a handful paragraphs in the multiple chapters about his reign. History books tend to be very kind to successful rulers like Jahaerys. I feel like there is more there. I bet GRRM has some twisted ideas on how he really imagined him to be.


yoaver t1_iubocug wrote

Alysanne was a living saint in the books, and if she's ever adapted I rather they keep her that way. They are rare, but true good historical fogures sometimes existed.


porchpooper t1_iu9nk40 wrote

I would have preferred it start with the end of Aegon’s reign with Aenys and Maegor.


SporadicSheep t1_iuaaqg1 wrote

If you're going back that far you may as well just start with the conquest tbh.


The_Brian t1_iuabn8c wrote

Have to think that, at some point, HBO is going to put the whole Targaryen dynasty on screen in some form or another.


stomach t1_iuawpgy wrote

well, if the US doesn't melt down this november or the one in 2024 causing cascading economic catastrophes across the globe, halting most of what we consider societal normalcy, then yeah. i kinda think we'll see the whole targaryen dynasty on screen from HBO in some form or another [nervous laughter]


Lizardchuckle t1_iuakrj8 wrote

The conquest would only really work for a mini series or something. The conquest is like 2 battles - 1 of which is essentially a trap where they very easily win. They breeze through everything because of dragons, Aegon wins over the admiration of everyone very easily, every minor conflict they instantly solve with dragons, the only campaign that is drawn out is Dorne and that's mostly them burning down empty castles because the Dorne's refuse to fight them.


really-shiny-panties t1_iuano30 wrote

Whereas with Maegor the cruel…you got a clusterfucked situation where multiple factions have a single objective



antonjakov t1_iuasivb wrote

i wish they would discuss maegor more - i think they should be more open to flashbacks. his story really highlights some of the topics that become relevant again with daemon and rhaenyra, like the second son complex and succession crises


DisneyDreams7 t1_iubkzxq wrote

This is a dumb take. By this logic Breaking Bad could only work for a mini series since it is a simple plot which can be seen to a reasonable conclusion. If you have good writers, then you could make it into a full series


MrBoliNica t1_iuahudw wrote

Pop culture will have a field day with a main character named Aenys lmao. And he’s the nice one!


kingofstormandfire t1_iuak25k wrote

They'll do that eventually. Either we'll see the Conquest itself as a movie or as season 1 of a show revolving abounding Aegon/his sisters/and their sons.


PostyMcPosterson t1_iubfq2f wrote

I would have loved to see that as well, but if you think about it, it would have made the start and shift of this season a lot more predictable. I’m ok for where they started the show in the timeline.


Stroiken t1_iu9ulhs wrote

Just finish the book dude.


Say_Echelon t1_iu9sskc wrote

I just finished the Dance of Dragons and thought it was very epic and worth reading


Collier1505 t1_iubjba8 wrote

I was gonna pick up the book and start reading it. HotD is only a chunk of the book, right? Is it a large piece of it or just a small section?


Say_Echelon t1_iubk70u wrote

Yep it’s 60,000 words. Finished it in 3 days and now I’ve got 4 seasons worth of content memorized


jimmycurry01 t1_iudmhj2 wrote

Rather than musing on how it could have started, he should probably wite about how it will end.


JumboMcNasty t1_iualbeo wrote

How about you muse on finishing a story you started 1996 - and have only released five parts to?!?!?!

  • Published in 1996... Great googly moogly he started writing it in 1991!!!!

"He began the first volume of the series, A Game of Thrones, in 1991, and it was published in 1996. Martin, who initially envisioned the series as a trilogy, has published five out of a planned seven volumes."


cantpissoffmods t1_iua8op5 wrote

Im looking at my ASOIAF books right now... All 5. Its sad to think there wont be a 6th. And if it ends like the TV show, i dont even want a 6th.


RedRose_Belmont t1_iuahuf9 wrote

Weren’t they supposed to be 7?


cantpissoffmods t1_iucs9ro wrote

Probably 8. Winds of Winter being the 6th, A Dream of Spring the 7th and something else the 8th. Or maybe he would end at 7 books.


timothybrooks7 t1_iubektq wrote



Davoswannab t1_iu9yfoo wrote

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. All we need to hear from him is “it’s done”. Til then, put a moratorium on post about grrm. I’ll capitalize it when you get the fucking book done George! Meanwhile who cares on the many ways it could’ve happened?!? I only cared about the one terrible way the other series ended.


JDLKC t1_iu9o8vk wrote

Less talking, more writing


JeffTek t1_iu9sbrs wrote

He just had one of the most successful first seasons in TV history. He's allowed to talk about it


TheLastHotBoy t1_iua18zu wrote

Finish your other series 1st chunky goddamnit


JayPtl t1_iu9qo3j wrote

In every thread that concerns Martin, more than half the comments are about him not finishing winds even if the winds is not the topic of discussion and it's the same thing over and over again.I want winds too, maybe he'll finish it maybe he won't.

Unpopular opinion: He doesn't owe anyone anything.


YoyoDevo t1_iu9skc4 wrote

>He doesn't owe anyone anything

The ONLY reason so many people read his books and recommend it to others is because there is an expectation that there will eventually be a complete story with an ending. There is an implicit promise that if you start reading the series, it will be concluded one day. He's one of the richest and most successful authors because of the people reading his books, and therefore owes the readers a satisfying conclusion.


Radix2309 t1_iu9zbe7 wrote

Not to mention he has promised many times over that he will release it.

It's fine (not really) if he wants to give up. But he keeps promising it and that he definitely owes.

He also owes it to the publisher as well. Quite frankly I don't even understand how he hasn't been forced to release something.


YoyoDevo t1_iu9zk8i wrote

>Quite frankly I don't even understand how he hasn't been forced to release something.

There is no way the publisher will release one of the most popular and best selling authors of all time from their contract. Even if there is a 1% chance he finishes it, that's definitely worth the risk. They are hoping he finishes the series as much as the readers are.


speckhuggarn t1_iua3637 wrote

Well he has released, "The Princess Queen", "The Rogue Prince", "The world of Ice and Fire", Tales of Dunk and Egg books, "Sons of the dragon", "Fire and Blood", among other smaller works since Dance of Dragons. So I mean he has published something


Act_of_God t1_iub8m4a wrote

> There is an implicit promise

there is not though, literally there isn't. It's not even that unique for literature to end up unfinished.


Every_Repair973 t1_iua1j8v wrote

He doesn't owe u anything. He wrote the books and he doesnt want to finish them. It's just a book though,not the end of the world.


__Hello_my_name_is__ t1_iu9y0v9 wrote

> He's one of the richest and most successful authors because of the people reading his books, and therefore owes the readers a satisfying conclusion.

So are you saying that if he finishes the books and the ending sucks, he owes the readers that he rewrite his last book until they like the ending?


YoyoDevo t1_iu9z18t wrote

No but he does owe an ending. Imagine he was honest with readers and said "hey guys you can buy A Game of Thrones but just know, this series will never be finished." Do you think anyone would buy the book? Of course people assume there will be an ending when they start the series. He owes all of his success to the readers so yes, he does owe an ending even if it's a bad one.


__Hello_my_name_is__ t1_iua0rrq wrote

Reddit owes all its success to its users. Does reddit owe me anything?

The very basic line of reasoning here is just really questionable if you think about it for a bit, and invites everyone to become entitled assholes. Which is, incidentally, how people act towards GRRM.


YoyoDevo t1_iua1p7l wrote

If reddit breaks its promises for what you'll get when you use it, then yes it doesn't deserve any users


__Hello_my_name_is__ t1_iua21a2 wrote

And it's perfectly fine if you think he doesn't deserve any readers and you be an example of that. That's not what I'm complaining about here.


Nightmare_Pasta t1_iu9x0r7 wrote

Nah. He doesn’t owe you anything, not a satisfying conclusion or even an explanation for that matter. You chose to buy his books and get invested in his story, clinging on to a nonexistent and unspoken social contract that is based on nothing more than your extreme sense of entitlement

That is all this is


YoyoDevo t1_iu9xbtz wrote

Imagine if all authors thought this way. The book industry wouldn't survive. Who wants to start a series and risk never knowing the ending? There HAS to be the expectation of completion or people just simply won't buy book series anymore.


__Hello_my_name_is__ t1_iu9y5kj wrote

> Who wants to start a series and risk never knowing the ending?

Let me introduce you to television shows that get canceled before their story finishes.

Weirdly enough, no one ever holds a 10+ year grudge against television producers who are responsible for that.


BlueTeamRuless t1_iu9z1r0 wrote

Yeah, they just hold them against the companies who produced the content. Not a day goes by where I don’t see “never trusting Netflix again after they cancelled x”


YoyoDevo t1_iu9z6ot wrote

>no one ever holds a 10+ year grudge

You must not be on reddit very often. People here still talk about what a tragedy the cancelation of 10+ year old shows was. Remember Firefly?


__Hello_my_name_is__ t1_iua0j2i wrote

I definitely don't remember people writing passive aggressive comments whenever the Fox Network comes up, no.


Okavski t1_iuabsjl wrote

I dont know, probably plenty of people disappointed or angry about the cancellation of Firefly still. Additionally when something is cancelled there is a some closure in knowing that it will never be finished. But with ASOIAF there is hope dangling in a thread that it one day will reach a satisfying conclusion, but the longer it takes the more resentment starts to grow from the possibility that it never will. The longer hope exists, the bigger the disappointment if it doesn't pan out.


__Hello_my_name_is__ t1_iuafvfn wrote

Some people, sure, but not enough for a highly upvoted passive aggressive comment about it every single time the Fox Network is mentioned.

The closure argument is fair, though. Honestly, at this point it makes sense to just consider the books cancelled and be positively surprised when they happen after all.


[deleted] t1_iu9ynz9 wrote


Thinking Martin is stupid for not finishing his story is a completely valid opinion. And probably true from both a fandom and business POV.

But he doesn't owe anyone anything.


JayPtl t1_iu9stc9 wrote

Thus the 'Unpopular Opinion'


YoyoDevo t1_iu9t0gf wrote

I wasn't saying your opinion was popular. I was saying it's stupid.


JayPtl t1_iu9tkgv wrote

Understandable✌. Have a great day.


Mddcat04 t1_iu9ul0a wrote

Regardless of what he owes or not it’s kinda monotonous wading through endless “finish the books George” comments. Like nobody has anything new or interesting to say, it’s just repetitive.


notathrowaway75 t1_iuacm8m wrote

>Unpopular opinion: He doesn't owe anyone anything.

This is a ridiculously popular opinion lmao.

Martin doesn't owe us anything sure, and that goes the other way around. We don't owe him infinite patience. Especially when he's actively taking on other projects.


Nightmare_Pasta t1_iu9tz8y wrote

Agreed. No story is owed a conclusion and he should only make continuations of the books if he wants to