Here's why people aren't watching Andor: the first 3 episodes are from a much smaller, much more boring show.

Submitted by testthrowaway54321 t3_1000dxj in television

I love spy thrillers. Everything from Bourne and Casino Royale to more heady pieces like Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and Munich. And oh, shall we mention Rogue One?

I love high-stakes political subterfuge: Man in the High Castle, Game of Thrones, House of Cards

Most of all, I love shows with amazing dialog, with lines that I'll be remembering for years.

Andor is all of these things, set in a Star Wars universe I grew up loving.

Yet, I hated Andor at first. Because the first 3 episodes are none of these things. 

Instead, they are a quiet, slow, character-driven crime drama. We have a dude fleeing for murder from a local cop in some tiny backwater. Worse, we have his Peter Pan Lost Boys gibberish-speaking childhood. Even the climax in episode 3 has pretty low stakes.

I took a month between each episode and gave up after 3. Until I read an article about a sophisticated political scene set in the Capital of the freaking Empire in episode #4. This sounded like an entirely different show. I tried #4, got hooked, was spellbound by the action in #6, and binged the rest in 2 days.

How the hell was I supposed to know from Episodes 1-3 that the show would go all the places it did? 

Not from the show's concept: a character's path to becoming supporting cast in a one-off movie? Nothing there to tell me this wouldn't continue to be a slow crime drama about stolen parts.

Second, Disney+ Star Wars quality is shite. Mandalorian's ok, but everything else has been dull. No confidence there. And let's not get started on the latest movies.

Point being, I totally get why all the Andor posts are annoying. The people who are raving are talking about an entirely different show than most of the people who are they are trying to convince who never got past the first 1 or 2 episodes.

So if you're like me and love any of the shows I mentioned at the start but could not get into Andor, give episode 4 a go. If it's not the worst, give it till at least Episode 6. Try.

If you still don't like it, fair play. But you may, just like me, find why there's so many Andor posts on Reddit.

Edit: Yikes, Sometimes I think Andor fans are their own worst enemies. I'm trying to convince people to watch Andor, and people are here calling me and other idiots for being bored. Again my point is that very little in the first 3 episodes indicates at how wide and tense the show gets afterwards. The genre literally changes. If you liked the first 3 episodes that's fine, the point is if you don't the show becomes so much more afterwards, so that people should give episode 4 a shot before they say they are bored. Even if you love it, I doubt you can say that 9-12 is better than 1-3. Slow buildup is one thing, but slow buildup in a different genre than what the show becomes is the issue.

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likejanegoodall t1_j2eqnii wrote

Andor had me in the first ten minutes.

When he accidentally killed that corporate security goon, I thought holy cow…..that’s a Star Wars first. An accidental killing?

Star Wars for grownups who can appreciate nuance really appeals to me.

Sure, tastes vary…some people liked child Anakin, the love scenes on Naboo and Jar Jar….but I wasn’t one of them.

Not even going to get started on the post-Empire movies….

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MyFavDinoIsDrinker t1_j2es33c wrote

Yeah, I especially love how his reaction made it clear that he was in so far over his head.

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nabrok t1_j2fnmt9 wrote

> When he accidentally killed that corporate security goon

Not just that ... guy walks into a brothel looking for his lost sister, gets shaken down by security goons, accidentally kills one, then murders the other.

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Roook36 t1_j2fctrf wrote

I've always wanted a Star Wars show or movie that would ignore the Jedi and The Force and focus on the world around it. Probably because I grew up in the Star Wars drought between Return of the Jedi and Phantom Menace, where if you wanted Star Wars you had to resort to reading novels. And they were full of this kind of stuff.

I don't care if there wasn't a lightsaber fight or spaceship battle in the first few episodes. It gave me the worldbuilding and character drama I've always hoped for in live action.

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likejanegoodall t1_j2fjwc7 wrote

Yeah, I don’t think the no Jedi thing hurt them at all. I really dig the birth of the rebellion stuff. Also, anyone who’s ever seen any Star Wars knows empire=bad, but you never really see how it affected main street…just normal folks trying to make a living and along come these goons putting their boot on everyone’s neck.

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okcrumpet t1_j2eugis wrote

I think it’s at that point a realistic crime show that’s set in a star wars world. But that’s going to have narrower appeal than the later story arcs (4-6)(7-9) that go broader into actual, you know, Star Wars.

The show really kicked off for me in that episode 4 people are talking about.

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sicinprincipio t1_j2fhr5x wrote

A lot of people who were looking for a more grounded story set in the star wars universe got what they wanted.

For mainstream viewers, it was boring because it didn't have any of the instantly recognizable characters or settings. We didn't have the force. Other than Andor and then Mon Mothma, every other character was new and had to be introduced. Unlike a movie where you had to tell the entire story within 1.5-2 hours so you only really get 20-30 mins to introduce the characters and their motivations. Instead,we get a long drawn intro to our three main stories: Andor with his path to rebellion and the rebellion from the point of view of the ground soldier, Deedra Meero and the empire's perspective, and Mon Mothma and the rebellion from behind the scenes.

The long character and environment development is important to really have the huge payoff for the finale when all 3 worlds collide on Ferrix.

This is so much different because the mainline movies are much campier and more action packed and less grounded character drama set in the star wars universe.

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testthrowaway54321 OP t1_j2ev6l8 wrote

Sure, that's going to appeal to some people, clearly. But I'm sure the broader story that starts from episode 4 would have much wider appeal. It just takes so long getting there.

I especially hated the backstory on the Jungle planet. Could have been condensed to a couple scenes and if the rest is relevant, then save it for the future when it becomes relevant. Really kills an already slow show tempo in the first few episodes.

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FlatSpinMan t1_j2f64ml wrote

I disagree with most of your post but do agree about that Kenari stuff. I assume it’s going to become relevant again.

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Garmgarmgarmgarm t1_j2eqze2 wrote

I heard an interview with one of the writers where they said they conceptualized the show in blocks of 3 episodes with a 2 episode finale and episode 7 being a sort of transition. 1-3 are about the fallout of cassian murdering those guards, 4-6 are about the heist, 7 is the fallout from the heist. 8-10 are the prison break and the last two wrap up all the storylines. So your experience isnt unusual.

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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_j2erf0b wrote

Maybe the general public and Reddit just have different tastes? I loved Andor but know 0 people who watch jt

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MyFavDinoIsDrinker t1_j2es87a wrote

Of all the criticisms I've seen directed at Andor, "It starts off slow" is one of the most consistent and one of the ones I understand the most. Yeah, I liked the start but it was definitely talky and slow.

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True_Statement_lol t1_j2fbrpb wrote

I mean to be fair without the first 3 episodes the rest of the show wouldn't be as good as it was, especially the finale.

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Roook36 t1_j2fd6do wrote

I don't think people appreciate build up anymore. They just want the payoff from the start. With shows being so short now days, binge watching being so popular, the idea of a show taking three episodes to build characters and setup future episodes is an unthinkable waste of time.

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True_Statement_lol t1_j2fepcv wrote

Oh totally, building characters and the world around them can really do wonders when it comes to creating story beats, especially ones later down the line. Also the fact that people think two episodes that have the burden of setting the entire series up that are below average length for an episode in a drama are boring is beyond me.

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KumagawaUshio t1_j2fh3vl wrote

Build up was fine when the choice was 'do I watch the 8:00PM drama on ABC, NBC or CBS' but today you have near limitless entertainment options and you really need a hook for the first episode and then do longer character pieces later.

I watched the first two episodes of Andor was bored all the way through so went and spent my very limited free time to do something else. Maybe if I was in school/college still or unemployed I would have continued but working 5-6 12-18 hour shifts every week limits my free time and just browsing the internet like this is just more relaxing since I'm not locking myself in to any site for an hour.

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GarlVinland4Astrea t1_j2esjax wrote

There's several reasons.

  1. Star Wars burnout is real and it's not considered a high quality franchise anymore.
  2. Despite popular opinion, people do in fact like Star Wars for Jedi's, Skywalkers, lightsabers, the force, the Sith, etc and taking that out of it to have a more political thriller style show isn't necessarily as appealing as some fans always thought it would be.
  3. It starts out slow so you add in all that and it becomes a turn off at the beginning for some people when you compound the above on it.
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dewayneestes t1_j2f3h6g wrote

To your point number 2 you have to asks yourself if being a Star Wars story is more compelling or being a political thriller is more compelling. I’d say a good political thriller is more appealing at this point than another Star Wars story.

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cherm27 t1_j2f7btp wrote

Think it’s mostly 2 and 3, but 2 isn’t talked about enough. I’m pretty entertained by most Star Wars offerings for what they already are, and didn’t really need a prestige TV offering to fill any gaps I felt in my Star Wars or TV fandoms.

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abbzug t1_j2ev8iu wrote

Do we even know that people aren't watching it?

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KumagawaUshio t1_j2firp3 wrote

It was pulling between 400 and 600 million minutes of viewing in a week across all episodes released at the time.

In comparison a CBS drama like FBI pulls in 600 million minutes of viewing or 10 million viewers with Live+3 days and is for only a single episode.

Disney+ had over 46 million US domestic subscribers during Andors run (unknown total with password sharing).

CBS is available to just over 122 million households in the US.

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pieceofdebri t1_j2f3cg0 wrote

I probably would’ve bailed after a few episodes like many of the others say they did, but since people I respected said it was good, I made the effort to finish it. And loved it. Sometimes you just gotta trust people I guess.

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TICKLE_PANTS t1_j2fk2cp wrote

Some people don't understand what a proper setup looks like. This is it. It's meant to show you where he came from, who he is, and how far away from a revolutionary he is.

Sure, you could cut the first part. You could make it more splashy, but the payoff later would not be better.

You're not smarter than the best director in the star wars universe. You're stupider.

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resonanceshrike t1_j2frwrf wrote

I’m not watching it for a simple reason. I watch shows with my wife after the kids are in bed, usually one episode a night. There are plenty of good shows that aren’t Star Wars shows. I am aware everyone says to ignore this but even I am having trouble getting by it and it’s a total no-go for her. We will probably get it it and hopefully love it.

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Theonceandfutureend t1_j2fvjkg wrote

The first three episodes of Law & Order: Star Wars was great though.

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bazzbj t1_j2f3zvl wrote

My friends who aren’t big star wars fans loved it. I’m the opposite and I got bored in the first 15 minutes. Of course, it takes time for some shows to “hook you in”, so I’m planning on binging it sometime soon

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soulwolf1 t1_j2f64zr wrote

Disney causing burnout because they constantly dropping shows and movies about foot note characters.

The next show will be about someone on a planet somewhere who was blowing their nose when Obi-Wan and anakin was there during the clone wars. So the show will tell the tale of the reason why that person decided to blow their nose, or some really stupid shit like that.

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CaffeinatedMD t1_j2femc1 wrote

I agree that the season plays like two different shows. The first half is the a heist and the second a jailbreak but the first two episodes have a lot of character development that is low yield. The sister storyline doesn’t play out and the pseudo romance between the villains is just odd.

Solid show but strange pacing choices.

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conniecheewa t1_j2fisd6 wrote

So many bad takes on this show lately ...

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tigersanddawgs t1_j2flkib wrote

i dont watch it because i dont like star wars or sci/fi and to a lesser extent im turned off by the super-online nature of its fans

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idunnowhatibedoing t1_j2fefwq wrote

No, it’s because I just don’t have time. And when I do have time I don’t want to dove into something we. I want to put something on so I can shut my brain down for the maybe hour of peace and quiet I get a day that is not sleeping.

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TeacherTmack t1_j2feq5u wrote

Can I just skip to episode 4 and read the synopsis for 1-3? Episode 1 was terribly boring, and even though I watched it, I retained nothing and care nothing about the characters.

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TICKLE_PANTS t1_j2fkhk1 wrote

No, this guy's an idiot. The first three episodes make it work. OP is just a child.

The first three episodes leading to the conclusion of the third episode is great. It's just a lot of setup.

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Takseen t1_j2fpcoh wrote

I had a similar experience, though episode 3 did hook me in.

Andor is pretty unlikeable in the first two episodes, just a grifter who gets other people to lie or cover for him, and has now accidentally murdered someone and is bringing the heat back home. And the connection between him and the jungle kids is not clear at all(to me, anyway)

Not saying it has to change, as the payoff is there. But I can see people needing a push from a friend's recommendation to keep going past the slow start.

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nighthawk911 t1_j2fcfsw wrote

I dont watch it specifically because of r/television and how they won't shut up about it.

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dewayneestes t1_j2f345s wrote

“Nobody” is watching Andor because I’m sick of having to understand a catalog of back stories before I can figure out what the f is going on in each Star Wars story. I don’t know who the characters are and I don’t care because the writers are too lazy to even remotely sketch them out for someone who isn’t a super fan.

Pedantic internet trolls have ruined story telling with their obsessive canon discussions of every possible show created. It’s an f’ing fantasy ok? It can be whatever the f it wants to be.

And don’t even get me started on Baby Yoda. Don’t show me a baby Yoda week after week and then get mad at me when I point and say “look it’s a baby Yoda”.

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El-Ausgebombt t1_j2f4t2o wrote

I mean, based on your first paragraph you would love the show. No backstories needed besides that there is a bad empire fucking over the galaxy.

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Roook36 t1_j2fcanl wrote

lol you are in luck. This show has literally nothing to do with any Jedis or lightsabers or Skywalkers. Nothing to do with Episodes 1, 2, or 3. And it takes place before Episode 4, and before Rogue One, so you don't need to see anything that takes place after that (Mandalorian, Boba Fett, etc)

Of all the Star Wars shows and movies it's probably the one you can jump into most without knowing anything else.

I'd even suggest people watch it before any other Star Wars tv show or movie as it sets the stage and the stakes for the entire rest of the universe before watching them

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uggsandstarbux t1_j2f4ura wrote

The great thing about Andor is that you basically don't have to know anything about Star Wars to understand it. My wife has seen 2 movies and some of Mando, and she loved it. Andor is a relatively unknown character and there isn't a single other central character that was previously introduced in any piece of Star Wars (other than Mon Mothma on a fairly forgettable scene)

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nigevellie t1_j2f3hkc wrote

I’m not watching because of all the posts in this sub that can’t shut up about it.

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True_Statement_lol t1_j2fc3mm wrote

That's an utterly stupid reason lmfao

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nigevellie t1_j2fhn10 wrote

Wasn't interested before. Was DEFINITELY not interested after this sub kept trying to shove it down people's throats. Stupid or not, that's the secondary reason for me not watching it, internet stranger.

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nabrok t1_j2fopgu wrote

How dare people talk about a television show they enjoy on a television forum!

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nigevellie t1_j2fpd0q wrote

Bots. Talk is different from blatant every day promotion. I wasn't even on Reddit that much when it was airing and there were 17 posts about Andor and why people should watch it. No thanks.

−1

True_Statement_lol t1_j2fiswk wrote

I just find that so weird though, like why would other people praising and enjoying it make you not want to watch it?

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cold_ravioli t1_j2etykq wrote

I'm not watching Andor because the only thing I'm more tired of than Star Wars content is Marvel content. I'm utterly jaded.

Also, Star Wars isn't good, but that hasn't stopped me from watching other shows, so really, that's just gravy.

−5

True_Statement_lol t1_j2fbyzk wrote

If you think Star Wars isn't good then you'll likely think Andor is great, the show feels the least like SW out of any content produced on screen yet still has the core themes that the franchise began with.

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theyusedthelamppost t1_j2exgew wrote

I agree with you. If the show had found a way to introduce Dedra and Mon Mothma in the pilot, it would catch people more easily. It's odd for a show to wait until the 4th episode to introduce the two best main characters.

In fact, I'll go one step further and say that Mon Mothma should have been a co-lead of the series with her name and face equal to Cassian in the marketing. That would have better communicated to people what kind of show it is.

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TICKLE_PANTS t1_j2fkks3 wrote

Glad you don't run this show. You'd fucking ruin it.

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Governmentwatchlist t1_j2euojg wrote

I fell asleep during the first episode. Maybe I was tired but I feel like that is a bad sign for a Star Wars show and I never went back.

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testthrowaway54321 OP t1_j2evbyk wrote

Yeah, that's exactly my point. Episode 1 and 2 are so dull, that I stopped watching. Episode 4 onwards are nothing like it.

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skippyspk t1_j2ev51r wrote

Also, we kind of already know the ending…why bother watching?

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Profitsofdooom t1_j2ex8kq wrote

Why bother watching Rogue One, or any of the prequels for that matter, using your logic?

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skippyspk t1_j2f2nvy wrote

I mean, is there any good reason to watch the prequels?

We know the fate of the titular character. He gets blown up HARD at the end of Rogue One. We had no idea that all the main characters in Rogue One would die at the end when we went into the movie. And it was a great movie!

With Andor, we know exactly where the main character is going. Six feet under. Disney is just trying to strip mine the SW universe for its last remaining precious Kyber crystals before it moved on and envelops another IP., and I ain’t here for it. You’re just watching the lady gasps of air from a flopping fish that is the SW cinematic universe. Bring me something new🤣😅

Happy new year to you and yours!

−3

ZarK-eh t1_j2epgyz wrote

Meh, it was the movies that burnt me out. Fuck star wars and disney.

−16

MyFavDinoIsDrinker t1_j2epxtp wrote

Then you are essentially bragging about the fact that you have no business discussing this show and are just trying to piss people off. And you are doing so in such a lazy manner that everyone knows exactly what you are doing and is just going to block you rather than take the fucking bait.

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GarlVinland4Astrea t1_j2esowq wrote

This thread is about why people aren't watching it. Getting the perspective of someone who didn't watch it does in fact contribute to the discussion.

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theyusedthelamppost t1_j2extrv wrote

I happen to agree with your sentiment which is, ironically, the reason why supporting Andor is so important to me.

A consumer's responsibility is to vote with his wallet. If we provide feedback to Disney that we don't want more of the crap that came before (prequels, boba fett, obiwan) but instead want more stuff like Andor, then we have a chance to turn the tide.

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testthrowaway54321 OP t1_j2euv0d wrote

yeah, that's partly my point. I was a huge star wars nerd in high school. The movies killed that interest for me, with the exception of Rogue One. So I had no reason to believe Andor would be that good.

It basically made up for all the crappy movies so far.

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Yellowdart00 t1_j2f8itv wrote

What if, and hear me out, we evaluated each piece of content on it's own merit rather than painting with broad strokes? We don't say "oh Thor L&T sucked, and She-Hulk wasn't really for me, so now everything set within the Marvel cinematic universe sucks now." No. Instead we apply a little nuance and understand that not everything is created equal and we as individuals aren't always the primary target audience for that content.

The narrative that Disney + SW is shit, or the quality of one production affected another is just tired and lazy.

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