Why is the sound mixing in modern TV shows so bad?

Submitted by poet3322 t3_zyd6n3 in television

I've been noticing for a while now that whenever I watch a modern show made for a streaming service, I will often not be able to hear or make out bits of dialogue. I'm reasonably confident that the issue isn't my hearing, because this doesn't happen in other situations, so I'm wondering if the issue is the sound mixing in these shows. I find myself more often than not simply turning on subtitles to make sure that I don't miss any dialogue, but of course that's hardly an ideal solution.

And I don't think this is an issue with older shows. Last night was a great example. I watched an episode of ZeroZeroZero on Amazon Prime and I had the same problem. It's a multilingual show, so the default state is that subtitles display when characters are speaking in a language other than English, and don't display when characters are speaking English. But I quickly found that I had to have the subtitles on even when English was being spoken because I regularly couldn't make out what the characters were saying even in quiet scenes.

Afterward, I watched an episode of NewsRadio, also on Amazon, and I had no problems whatsoever making out any of the dialogue in that show. It was always clear and understandable no matter how loud the scene was, and this is even in a show that has a laugh track. It was the same TV, same streaming service, same volume, same settings, and the difference between a modern streaming show and a network sitcom from the 90s was night and day in how clear the dialogue was.

Do other people have the same issue with dialogue/sound mixing in modern streaming shows? And if it is a consistent problem, does anyone know why the sound mixing has gotten so much worse in the last ten years or so?

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MagicalMetaMagic t1_j26k2d3 wrote

Modern audio mixing is done by audiophiles with their heads up their ass. This is a common complaint and has been for over a decade now.

​

"J-just get a surround setup!"
I have one, center channel and all. The whisper talking, the window shattering explosions, all of it is asinine and has nothing to do with your sound setup. It's increasingly a problem even in the theater.

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TheFinnishFrog t1_j28kkv0 wrote

>"J-just get a surround setup!"

This mentality of sound mixing also alienates like 90% of people living in cities who don't / can't set up a fuck off home cinema audio system in an apartment with neighbours

38

dewayneestes t1_j27x82d wrote

A perfect recent example of how easy this is to fix was The French Dispatch by Wes Anderson.

Every bit of dialog was 100% crystal clear. Yes it’s a very simple and stage like show but my wife and I were stunned that we didn’t have to futz around with settings and subtitles to enjoy a movie for once.

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pardybill t1_j281bl8 wrote

I will say, the one glorious thing about surround on modern broadcasts is sports. The majority of the time you can just kill that center speaker to mute the commentators and just listen to the game live is great.

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LewManChew t1_j29qye1 wrote

As a sports mixer I support this. I’d rather never have announcers and just have the effects.

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suddenlyissoon t1_j28e5kk wrote

I have an awesome home theater and still find that most mixing is terrible. In fact, there's only one tv show I've ever seen that consistently used Atmos and space correctly and that is Black Summer on Netflix.

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AdmiralAckbarPlease t1_j27fmpe wrote

I’ve been to friends houses that have surround setup. I’ve noticed that sometimes they aren’t configured properly. In surround, all the dialogue is usually coming through the center channel. If your L+R and surround speakers aren’t placed right, it’s definitely possible that the mix isn’t always the issue.

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crashfrog t1_j27xtb0 wrote

Like, not everybody’s room can functionally support 5.1 audio, just based on geometry and materials and other architectural details beyond your control.

We should still get to watch TV too, though!

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AdmiralAckbarPlease t1_j27y8k6 wrote

Right. The flip side of this, is that maybe people should figure out how to turn up the center channel so they can get more of the dialogue

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crashfrog t1_j27yp3m wrote

They’re not mixing dialogue to the center channel anymore. It doesn’t help. Finding that out was $600 right down the fucking drain, by the way.

The one thing I’ve done that did help is get an Apple TV and two HomePods, which I placed right where we sit on the couch. Just physically being nearer to the speakers was a marked increase in intelligibility.

15

healbous t1_j2836xe wrote

Turn your center channel up then. And your fronts down. Or turn night mode on.

Or you really don't have a center channel because your issues are really not issues to anyone with one.

−12

Delicious_Cicada_797 t1_j27nwxr wrote

I think it’s more that people are not realizing that they have slowly lost hearing over the years. Or more likely, refusing to accept it.

Audio engineers arent using compression correctly anymore, that’s true, but it’s also the use of earbuds becoming common, and people just getting old. The thing that pops out to me in OP’s title is “modern TV shows”… someone who has 100% of their hearing doesn’t say “modern” anything.

−38

robot_ankles t1_j27qiy9 wrote

Based on OP's description (and my own similar experiments) all variables are identical except for the specific show being evaluated. Same TV, speakers, service provider, viewing/listening location AND the same ears. And I have also experienced and read other's complain of this exact phenomenon. This topic was somewhat famously discussed a while back regarding Christopher Nolan movies as an example.

However, as for using the word "modern" you might be right. I was unaware that word existed until my 31st birthday when I was finally granted access to a whole book of unlocked words and phrases I was allowed to learn and begin using. So many fun words became available. Almost like getting a new DLC package.

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Cyyyyk t1_j25qtlk wrote

I have no idea.... but I know I need subtitles for every show.

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bananafever t1_j2867u8 wrote

You have no idea how relieved I am to learn that I'm not the only one.

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ACrask t1_j28tsx1 wrote

There are many of us, I promise.

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original_nox t1_j28ogwq wrote

I bought a sound bar just so I could hear dialogue on streaming platforms. TVs today need all the extra shit turned off. Get rid of "film mode" and "enhanced audio" Fuck off LG/Samsung the raw feed IS as the filmmakers intended.

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MNGirlinKY t1_j28w4g3 wrote

Sound bars are definitely required, we have them on both our TVs and for some reason my husband bought me a little tiny baby one for my work computer and I can’t lie it really does make life easier.

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splitcroof92 t1_j2abhpd wrote

movie mode is actually THE setting to turn on. it's a standadized set of settings all manor tv brands and movie studios etc adhere to. Turn that on and you're seeing what the maker intended for you to see.

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MNGirlinKY t1_j28w1qq wrote

We started watching with subtitles when we started watching outlander. We’ve kept them on since then. It makes life much easier.

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scherzophrenic86 t1_j25snyv wrote

Because most tv shows and movies either are mixed exclusively for 5.1 channels or more, or they default to that mix while most people watch with a 2 channel setup.

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Jtrinity182 t1_j29bkbs wrote

Yeah. I struggle to understand much of anything coming from built-in speakers on a modern show.

Just get Atmos home theater and and OLED TV and these problems go away. \s kind of.

10

StairheidCritic t1_j2850yf wrote

..or so dark you can often barely see a thing.

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KingAdamXVII t1_j2991l5 wrote

I think both of these issues are actually bandaids for more fundamental problems in modern media production.

These cheap sets and costumes look terrible; hey no problem we’ll just set the scene at night. Fake blue night light is out of style so let’s use more minimalist lighting; it worked for these other critically acclaimed scenes so it will work for us.

Damn, this dialogue sounds so stupid. Let’s have the actors mumble realistically so it sounds more genuine. Hmm, it’s still stupid, better make sure the sound effects and music are on point.

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BaldDudePeekskill t1_j29tg9z wrote

A thousand times this. My poor dad has very low vision, but loves Netflix. Many of the shows he tries to watch are so dark that he can't tell what's going on. Nor can I, for that matter. There's atmosphere, and then there's poor cinematography.

7

AdrianW3 t1_j27pfwx wrote

And why do many shows have the music significantly louder than everything else?

I've been watching White Lotus and I have to have my finger hovering over the volume control so I can reduce it whenever a scene with music starts.

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duskywindows t1_j29hos9 wrote

I’ve nearly shit myself after turning the volume up so high so I could actually hear what the fuck the actors were saying, only for the next scene to IMMEDIATELY start with music ON FULL BLAST.

And then gunfire sfx? Holy fuckin shit.

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dan_crider t1_j25q494 wrote

Subtitles, all the time for everything. This is the way.

I've gone through three A/V systems in the last ten years and it is definitely a combination of music/FX being too loud in the mix, actors mumbling, and sound recordists being so scared for their jobs that they are afraid to say "we need another take for clean audio...stop mumbling, Method man!"

Its not you.

I a

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crashfrog t1_j27xp9q wrote

Yes, literally everyone who watches TV is complaining about it, but actors want to mumble their dialogue now (it’s “naturalistic!”) and directors want to mix wall-of-sound music over it and everybody’s content to blame bad TV speakers even though you can watch it with a 7.2 cinema-level sound system in an anechoic chamber and it’s still incomprehensible.

Under my regime these idiots are first up against the wall, along with every cinematographer who says “why actually light the scene, it’s not like the viewer needs to see anything - they’ll get it from the dialogue.”

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reddit455 t1_j25ad5g wrote

do you have a center cannel? - that's where they put the dialog.

​

https://www.axiomaudio.com/blog/speakers-for-tv

Center channel: a speaker that doesn't get much respect, but one that does a lot of heavy lifting, especially with today's soundtracks. If you're looking to improve your TV's sound, check out our latest video.

​

make sure your audio signal matches the physical setup.. if you're sending a center channel signal, and there is no physical speaker in the middle - it's going to sound muffled.

​

if you have a sound bar, look for dialog settings.

​

>NewsRadio,

back then.. your home entertainment system was stereo.

no surround, no ATMOS, no sound bars..

no center channels in use.

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MagicalMetaMagic t1_j26kk45 wrote

>back then.. your home entertainment system was stereo.

For the vast majority of people, it still is. Maybe entertainment products should be designed for the audience.

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GeronimoSonjack t1_j27umdq wrote

We'd still be on standard def squarevision with that attitude.

−19

nick22tamu t1_j25urxd wrote

I have my center channel cranked all the way up and I still use subtitles and basically everything. It’s the mixing; there’s no other explanation

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dontbajerk t1_j25wy1b wrote

Yeah, even if you blast the center or mute other speakers or whatever there are sequences you can't understand dialogue in some shows. Boosting center helps and is worth doing, but it won't fix it all. It's also obvious when you watch older stuff and have zero issues. Or when some shows you have almost no issues, and others you have many, on the exact same setup with the exact same settings.

10

cynic74 t1_j28h54v wrote

Unless you have a center speaker made from an inferior speaker brand. Realistic brand anyone?

2

Ridgey14 t1_j25hwvp wrote

Thank you so much, I haven't tested yet but I also have this issue with my surround sound system when it comes to dialogue in shows, and I've just realised I can adjust the volume of the centre channel in the mix

9

Kind-Strike t1_j25vaix wrote

Your receiver should (depending on brand) have a spot for a mic where the receiver will send annoying signals to measure where your couch is and how the sound is affected where you're sitting and will automatically adjust the distance and volume levels of each speaker to even out.

On Yamahas it's called YPAO. Denon I don't remember.

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t0b4cc02 t1_j26j7j1 wrote

there are different ones on different brands/recievers

the feature generally is called room correction

1

poet3322 OP t1_j25cxdr wrote

Hmm, thanks, I will look into this. Hopefully that's the issue and it's something I can fix.

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stumpcity t1_j25ji4s wrote

You can also in many cases select the stereo mix of whatever you're trying to watch (they are still made and made available on streaming platforms) or set your streambox, if you're using it, to only send stereo content to the receiver/soundbar/tv.

1

llmercll t1_j27qff7 wrote

The dialogue is super low everything else is loud af

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monchota t1_j25lbmy wrote

They keep it cheap and mis it all together. Also all of it is designed for 5.1 atleast.

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WarOnDurgz t1_j26i9a5 wrote

Sound mixing in EVERYTHING has turned to absolute ass.

The old engineers retired and got replaced by millennials with tinnitus who think BURRRRRRR DURRR DURRR DURRR DUUUMMMMMMMM is the peak of audio excellence.

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Owasso_Landman t1_j258ys8 wrote

Are you using a sound bar or speakers? Modern televisions have awful speakers and with prestige Directors/Producers now making TV shows they are probably mixing them with the assumption they will be heard on premium sound systems as opposed to a show like NewsRadio that’s a very basic three camera studio show. (just a hunch).

Also some speakers have a “dialogue” setting. You might check that.

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poet3322 OP t1_j25ddov wrote

No sound bar or speakers. I don't think there's a dialogue setting on my TV, but I'll check again in the audio settings. Thanks.

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Owasso_Landman t1_j25eeym wrote

Even a cheap sound bar will be better. Downside to modern thin TV’s is shitty speakers. Unfortunately you just missed all the Black Friday sales. If you mostly watch alone you might be able to connect Bluetooth speakers (like a jam box) or headphones to your streaming device. I do this with my AirPods when I don’t want to wake people up in the house.

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crashfrog t1_j27yck1 wrote

> Are you using a sound bar or speakers? Modern televisions have awful speakers

They’re honestly not, not on a TV larger than 40” and made in the last ten years (they’re using the same computational audio correction that’s in laptops now) and no reciever at any price point can fix a bad mix or a mumbling actor.

It’s the mixes and the actors that are bad. Your 400W reciever isn’t going to make “naturalistic” mumbling intelligible or fix fight scenes lit by tea candles, it’s just going to make your neighbors one floor down hate your fucking guts.

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Thewhitewolf1080 t1_j27d6yz wrote

Roku has excellent audio leveling, this has helped tremendously since I migrated away from kodi to Emby aswell

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mastercotcot t1_j26k1o9 wrote

I have to alter the volume on an episode basis for some shows.

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senorbozz t1_j28so01 wrote

Well, it basically comes down to music swells and several explosions happen so I hope that answers your question

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barbarkbarkov t1_j269huz wrote

Worst offender I’ve witnessed was Sense8. The mixing was horrendous where you legit couldn’t hear conversations even with volume cranked up. I remember thinking I was having ear problems until I read a lot of similar complaints online.

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HKChad t1_j26bcb5 wrote

Set your tv to stero instead of surround if you can if you have no surround setup the dialog gets muffled.

5

EnoughWear3873 t1_j26q2p4 wrote

Isn't stereo just downmixed from surround on most streamers? In my experience it leaves whatever would normally be in the center channel nearly inaudible.

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HKChad t1_j26qn1e wrote

So it likely depends on your tv, but on mine cheap bedroom tv at least switching the output to stereo seemed to mix the left/ right more even so it's not so loud during explosions and quiet during dialog. On my main tv i have sonos which has the ability to increase voice and decrease background while still being surround.

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Twigling t1_j2864zr wrote

I watch Netflix, Amazon, etc on my PC with a pair of good quality stereo headphones which I've had for years.

'Old' shows are fine (I'm thinking anything prior to around 2005 - 2010), no problems at all with the audio, I can make out everything that the characters say, the mixing is good, etc. However, everything after that is a variable mess and I often need to rewind and briefly turn on the subtitles to hear some dialog that I couldn't make out. This applies to movies as well.

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robjob42 t1_j28uyz7 wrote

It's the larger dynamic range. This started(or at least when I began noticing) back when DVDs were created. More space on the disc meant less compression for the contents. Less compression in audio generally results in a larger dynamic range especially when you're dealing with the sounds of explosions vs a human whispering. I remember first noticing this when watching The Matrix when it came out on DVD. Even with a 5.1 setup, you still have to crank it until the dialogue is clear, and then brace for everything else being loud AF.

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EdenH333 t1_j29hc2s wrote

I’m glad it’s not just me. Netflix has been the worst for this, imho. Especially going from mumbling, nearly inaudible dialogue, to blaring explosions or other sound effects, or the soundtrack kicks in and it’s for some reason 10x louder than the rest of the mix. I have to keep going up and down on the volume just to keep things manageable.

3

shellexyz t1_j29j0s6 wrote

I’d like to know why I struggle to hear the commentary when I watch most football games. We have a passably nice surround system that we use, 7.1 and everything.

The announcers only come from the center channel speaker while the others carry, essentially, crowd noise. Where we usually keep the volume around “50” on our system, we have to turn up to 60+ to get close to that volume during the games.

If I turn it off and play through the tv speakers it is considerably louder.

3

Ok_Caterpillar4181 t1_j25va8t wrote

Check the audio output on the streaming apps. Some have options you can change.

2

KeyP2021 t1_j28alzn wrote

Most shows and movies nowadays are mixed in Dolby Atmos but unless one uses an actual Atmos setup, the 2-channel (stereo) downmix is problematic and most people don't/can't go into their TV menus to change a couple of audio settings that could (theoretically) solve or at least improve this.

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MisterBaked t1_j28iqh9 wrote

the worst streaming service audio is Peacock. It literally sounds like the audio was ripped from youtube 9/10 times. you can hear the artifacts in the sibilance.

I'm constantly switching between sound settings depending on the show and streaming service. You have to manually EQ just to hear dialogue a little better.. and still need subtitles.

2

rpaul9578 t1_j28srbi wrote

I use subtitles because it often helps with remembering names, tells you what songs are being played, background dialog, and mumbling.

2

DylanGrossmanSFX t1_j291q73 wrote

A good mix in 5.1 will be a good mix in 2.0. The issue is not prioritizing a 5.1 mix and the collapsed stereo being bad because of it. There is a wide variance in quality in any professional sphere and audio mixing is no exception. I think at least a part of the issue is a not prioritizing the typical playback environment that has background noise and bad speakers.

2

jwas1256 t1_j2960hw wrote

It’s not “bad” per se. More like it’s “too good”. There’s just way too much dynamic range for consumer/average sound setups. Most built-in speakers are cheap and don’t have enough super high-end or low-end. And most sound bars/surround systems, are heavily low end(bass)- focused. There was a point in the mid/late 2000s where sound companies convinced us that crushing bass=high quality sound, which lead to sound systems being tuned with a heavy low end, or people getting them In Their house and just cranking the bass nob up.

Idk maybe just compress the audio of shows like they do commercials bc I have absolutely no fckn problem hearing those

2

scottorama2002 t1_j29w9mn wrote

Noticed terrible sound editing on This Is Us. There are so many quiet moments on the show that there must have been a noise gate that would engage when the ‘quiet’ (white noise) got too loud and would cut it off to silence. Seemed to happen two to three times every episode.

2

sadandshy t1_j29wi9i wrote

AEW is always plagued with multiple sound issues.

IndyCar broadcasts have had the track noises cranked for years, often you can't hear the announcers clearly. Sometimes that is a blessing, but during pit cycles it is really difficult to figure out what is going on.

2

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1

salmyak t1_j2be239 wrote

As a soundie a word of defense for my fellow craftspeople - there are several possible reasons contributing to this issue. Actors may want to whisper and mumble. On set there can be challenges with unwanted noise like traffic, or rustling wardrobe causing issues to the lavalier mics hidden under the clothes - if there is no budget or time to re-record (called ADR) problematic lines, the audio editors have to clean it up as best they can and this can lead to end results where also the desired audio signal is degraded.

When it gets to the mixing stage there might not be a lot of time, and a director or producer/studio may be pushing for the flashier or atmospheric sounds to be played louder. It can be hard to argue against this as the mixer will of course also want to land the next gig. And the sound mixer might also want to create dynamic mixes for the cinema etc - sometimes a "DVD mix" is also made with less dynamic range but this costs more money of course.

After mixing and delivery we still have more possible issues since the material is viewed through one of many streaming services with an endless combination of TVs, laptops, amplifiers and speakers, some of which may have their own varieties of automatic adjustment enabled, with the user not even realizing.

It is annoying, of course - I am used to subtitles myself and don't mind having them on if I need to view at a lower volume but I myself wish services would also include English subs without the closed captioning of sound effects etc.

1

Snypnz t1_j2ck0zz wrote

I watch everything with subtitles regardless of whether I need them or not, but when they aren't available I really notice how bad and hard to understand some shows and movies are

1

Paqaboll721 t1_j278mf8 wrote

No one knows how to do anything anymore. And that's just being passed down. Wait til the kids of today have to run the power grids...

0

JohnCavil01 t1_j29aif0 wrote

You know that once upon a time nobody knew how to run a power grid because they hadn’t been invented yet. And then they had to hire people and train them and then they knew how to do that. This has not changed.

2

Paqaboll721 t1_j29biqh wrote

You act as if everyone does their job perfectly. I used to work at a pizza place back in the day. When it first opened, it was amazing. Ran like a charm. Years later, after the OG owner passed it down, things started declining. Things weren't done with the same quality. Product suffered. But the restaurant was still successful. But things were breaking down internally. Recipe was being lazily put together instead of exact measurements, it became "close enough".

Eventually the restaurant closed. Not because people didn't know how to run the restaurant, but because complacency set in. Avg quality became the norm. This is what's happening with most of our infrastructure. People still know how to run things. But avg preformance is becoming the norm. It will turn out badly.

1

JohnCavil01 t1_j29c6rd wrote

And I guess you’re acting like no one knows how to do anything. Any chance that that’s just your anecdotal experience and you’re not actually taking into account the entirety of everything? Do have data to support this perspective that everything is declining in quality and capability or do you just resent these damn kids?

2

spondic t1_j27kpmd wrote

Done streaming services default choose 5.1 and if you only are listening in stereo, it’s hounds like shiz…

−1

mcg238 t1_j27m6tq wrote

Get a soundbar with center speaker - 5.1 - solved this issue for me.

Bose 600 or 900

−2

TheBSisReal t1_j25foob wrote

I see this complaint all the time, but I don’t have this issue myself at all. I have a 5.1 system with a soundbar, so that might be why. Subtitles annoy me (when I speak the language) so I rarely turn those on.

−5

niktak11 t1_j27dukt wrote

Same here. I have not encountered this with a single show on any streaming service.

−4

hickom14 t1_j26vgp7 wrote

Seriously sounds like you don't have audio settings correct for whatever equipment you're using. There are undoubtedly shows and movies that have sound issues, Tenet is the biggest offender in my eyes. That's less on the mixing and more with directorial decisions regarding mastering the soundtrack over the dialog.

−6

CableCoShow t1_j266uyk wrote

I wear headphones and don't have any issues.

−8

Calcutec_1 t1_j25glx3 wrote

Its not the mixing,it’s the end users equipment or lack there of.EDIT: lol.. downvoting clear technical facts is peak Reddit 🤣

−12

TheFinnishFrog t1_j28l3pi wrote

So in order to understand 90% of prestige TV shows audio I need a sound system that would get me killed by my neighbours. lol

1

Calcutec_1 t1_j28nzm7 wrote

Thing about these systems is they come with a volume button.

−3

[deleted] t1_j261mw5 wrote

[deleted]

−16

Delicious-Tachyons t1_j26gy94 wrote

everyone's in apartments now and can't exactly blast the roof off with awesome speakers

2