Submitted by khroshan t3_10lu7cn in television

I just watched the first episode and it was a surprise to see Czechs and Russians speaking among themselves in English. The first two seasons had realistic use of Arabic and Spanish. It seems that they didn't even care to make the effort this time.

The plot is absurd and nothing makes sense. >!How in the world did they speedboat from the middle of the Black Sea all the way to the outskirts of Athens? How do you drive around Athens causing havoc like some Hollywood movie? How come the cargo ship didn't even have a lookout? How could Jack Ryan be so stupid to leave Yuri, a critical asset, alone when there were people looking to kill him right behind them? Why is Jack Ryan shouting during a covert operation? The entire plotline to do with Russia and the nuke and the 7 day plan is beyond stupid.!<

The dialogue has also taken a big hit, S2 was not as good as S1 but it was still reasonably watchable. This is just shit. I can't understand how this has gotten good reviews.



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Adenchiz t1_j5z28g5 wrote

I'm on the 2nd to last episode of the new season , and I am still waiting for just one Russian to speak Russian.


VitaLonga t1_j5z3a1i wrote

Or why Greer was stationed in Moscow… not like he sticks out at all, right?


points_finest_pills t1_j5z8936 wrote

In the real world I’d imagine it’d probably be something to do with his experience and skills and nothing to do with his race.

In the TV world it doesn’t matter at all.


cbaker817 t1_j5z5rao wrote

S1: Introduce a new actor as Jack Ryan, and bring in the original character's origin story updated to happen in the modern day. S2: Let's make him an action hero instead. will it make sense? not really, but the actor is good as an action hero. S3: What country can we make be the bad guys without hurting overseas views? Russia? we can't afford Russian talent? then just hire whatever we can afford.


bookant t1_j60keuc wrote

>S3: What country can we make be the bad guys without hurting overseas views?

This has basically been a huge problem with spy fiction since the end of the Cold War.

Bond films have floundered, too, not knowing what to do with themselves. Central American drug cartels? Works for a movie or two. Ditto the Russian mob. Then it's basically variations of the "Dr. Evil" - private villain who wants to take over the world. Rupert Murdoch standin is trying to start a war because it would profitable or something.

By the last few Craig movies we're down to soap opera garbage like "the villain is Bond's long lost brother."

The huge mistake Bond films made IMHO was not making "Casino Royale" a reboot back to the proper time period. They could be doing cold war period pieces now. Maybe even actually faithful adaptations of the original books.

Ditto Jack Ryan. How much cooler would it be if the series worked up to "Red October" and beyond. Work your way through the books faithfully and you've just created the action/espionage equivalent to "Game of Thrones."


Why_Did_Bodie_Die t1_j62fatc wrote

Something I have never understood at all is why so many movies based on books change the whole story around. To me it is so confusing. You have a great book. There is. Whole story in there and all you have to do is film it. It is just so weird.


staedtler2018 t1_j63bog9 wrote

>You have a great book. There is. Whole story in there and all you have to do is film it.

You cannot, in fact, do this. Certainly not for any book that is actually "great."

Even for simple books there are budget considerations, pacing, clarity, the interests of the actors, etc.


cbaker817 t1_j60su3l wrote

that would have been a great idea. it would have given years of stories and conflict that are baked in. reference the movies that already were made as you progress through the timeline. The world building is there, it just takes someone willing to commit to it. I imagine they could have done most of the same character's stories and arcs in a modern timeline without losing the character.


Chataboutgames t1_j5z7jfp wrote

I was hoping making Russians the bad guys would be a return to form as that was the bread and butter of the genre but no, it's the same "Jack Ryan shoots his way across the world with his wisecracking buddy"


cbaker817 t1_j5zaqza wrote

you are right. Amazon has the right to all of Clancy's books, so going back to spy thriller and bringing in the other characters and story threads seems like a natural plan. my hope was something like. S3 opens up with Jack catching the trail of something going on in Russia, reaches out to the resident spook in Moscow, her name is Foley. they start working the Intel. find out we need to get into an (insert very secure place), and we send in Sam Fisher to retrieve the info. season finally has Mr. Clark comes in to do the actual shooting.


orangemaroon25 t1_j5zn1jw wrote

I mean, did you see what Amazon already did to Mr Clark in their Without Remorse?


cbaker817 t1_j5zr8xe wrote

I heard it was good, but not like the original character. haven't had the heart to watch one of my favorite characters get ruined.


Cyrano_Nose t1_j62a8n4 wrote

Writers missed the opportunity (just in my opinion) to have some True Lies moments with Ryans girlfriend/future wife.

They touched on it with the helicopter ride out of the party and the sudden meeting about the pandemic, but I really wish they'd have done more with it.


djcorygrr t1_j6c728u wrote

It’s one of the biggest budget shows. They have the money for Russian talent, but it was a call made because Americans don’t really do subtitles. What tv shows do you watch with extensive subtitles?


cbaker817 t1_j6c8ii0 wrote

The budget remark was meant as a jab at the production. Amazon is not known for being cheap when budgeting for their shows. As to subtitles, both previous seasons of this show had subtitles for the non English-speaking characters. and I see it rather frequently. the NCIS shows and Madam Secretary are the two most recent that I have watched.


jogoso2014 t1_j5z0ofq wrote

I liked it.

Of course I would not routinely care how long it too a boat to reach a thing.


khroshan OP t1_j5z3s4a wrote

It's not just about time but a tiny little inflatable boat like that wouldn't have enough fuel to even make it a small portion of the way. On top of that, it would pass through the territorial waters of Turkey, where there are two serious chokepoints, the Bosporus and the Dardanelles where they would have been stopped.


UskyldigeX t1_j6982bs wrote

They also had no reason to go to Greece. They could have gone straight back to the navy ship they came from.


Steelcity213 t1_j5z3w53 wrote

I thought season 3 was quite good and had lots of suspense. Season 2 on the other hand dragged a bit


Premislaus t1_j5znuou wrote

>I just watched the first episode and it was a surprise to see Czechs and Russians speaking among themselves in English.

What should they speaking instead? Most Czechs don't learn Russian and Russians sure as hell don't learn Czech.


khroshan OP t1_j61qfex wrote

I said "speaking amongst themselves", not "speaking amongst each other". It means Russians are speaking to other Russians in English, even without other nationalities around. Same with Czechs.


Axolotl_amphibian t1_j60u3c4 wrote

Maybe OP still lives in the 1980s?


khroshan OP t1_j61qo0b wrote

Speaking of the 80's, even in the flashback scene, Russians were speaking in English.


hagbardceline69420 t1_j5zbklf wrote

S3 felt like a travel show, let's film in all these beautiful places, make it look gorgeous, but let's not spend a dime on a script or good acting, it kinda feels like that's Amazons thing, lots of shows they have look great, but they're terrible to watch.


OfCourseIKnowHim t1_j5znsvf wrote

“How could fiction be so unbelievable?”

I enjoyed it, but I don’t take many fictional things very seriously.


cbaker817 t1_j5zvb5o wrote

that's kind of a thing with all of Clancy's work. it was so close to believable that at one point, he got a visit from the folks at Langley asking who his sources were. the stories and characters were close enough to be real. making them more than that is where the fans of the books become disappointed.


OfCourseIKnowHim t1_j5zwst6 wrote

That’s one of the differences between a tv show and a novel. Novels can go into so much more detail.


cbaker817 t1_j5zy52l wrote

You are absolutely right, but the problem isn't the lack of detail or nuance. the problem is making unnecessary changes that make believable characters unbelievable. for example: In this universe there are 3 VERY capable combat operators. and throughout the stories Ryan is the analytical planner. he figures out what is going on and sends in one of them, with a team of operators to solve the problem. Ryan is not someone good in combat, he is good with information not guns.


Col_Irving_Lambert t1_j5z6ed5 wrote

Dude is an analyst. I have yet to understand why they don't have a character for action stuff instead. It's not like amazon introduced him in his own movie.

Sigh. This show is beyond dumb. I just watch The Last of Us and wonder what a Ryan show would be like if it actually followed source material.

"Invisible nuke to radar" - what the actual fuck?

Oh well. At least Slow Horses has another season.


Chataboutgames t1_j5z7qhp wrote

Wasn't the whole point of the character that he's also a badass vet who is more than capable of violence when the situation calls for it?

I think the unfortunate change is that instead of him being unwillingly thrust in to the occasional violent situation, he's basically the black ops vanguard leading the charge whenever violence is the solution. And violence is always the solution lol


Col_Irving_Lambert t1_j5z8tsi wrote

See that’s the thing. Ryan isn’t supposed to even be a badass vet of any form. In fact I’m struggling to think of how many times his character even “touches” a gun in the entire book series. Maybe 3 times? (Red Rabbit, Red October, Patriot Games).


Chataboutgames t1_j5z96yz wrote

Am I misremembering? I thought in the OG stories he was also a military veteran. Although IIRC it's Red October where he famously never touches a firearm, he does in other stories.

But again the tone is "more than just a pencil pusher," not "motherfucking terminator"


orangemaroon25 t1_j5zolri wrote

He is a veteran, but he injured his back in a helicopter crash in training and never actually put his boots on the ground in combat. So he's more than a pencil pusher because he is in fact a Marine, and a young version like Krasinski is playing might still be in shape enough for like, the scene in S1 when he's at the camp that gets attacked. I'd believe him picking up a weapon and returning fire there. Or the opening or (book version) climax of Patriot Games.

He can handle a weapon and take care of himself if the situation calls for it, but that's not his role.


Col_Irving_Lambert t1_j5z9noz wrote

You may be right, I might be confusing the October movie and book together. And he is still a vet and had a helicopter crash that messed his back up (just different wars due to time).

That bad back he still had issues with until season 1 was over. Guess he found those Jack Bauer level painkillers.

Also what happened to his damn wife!


Chataboutgames t1_j5z9wtp wrote

Remember, his back is exactly as bad and Greer's heart is exactly as bad as the plot requires it to be at that exact moment


orangemaroon25 t1_j5znun3 wrote

And in Patriot Games it's made very clear that he's old and retired and it's only his hero instinct reacting that led him to do anything there. He only survived that because of his surprise rush and because one of the attackers was an 18 year old kid who'd never actually been in a fight before.

I don't think I've read Red Rabbit and I've only seen the movie of Red October, and that a long time ago.


mickeyflinn t1_j5zhh9a wrote

> Wasn't the whole point of the character that he's also a badass vet who is more than capable of violence when the situation calls for it?

No, not at all.


orangemaroon25 t1_j5znh4t wrote

Even the violence he uses in Patriot Games is almost more than he should have been capable of. He's not a badass vet, he was injured badly in a chopper crash in training. I mean he was a Marine, but that's it. Clear and Present Danger is the movie that got Jack Ryan the most correct.


eareetator t1_j5zrfst wrote

The Jack Ryan in Hunt for Red October was not bad. Not a lot of action in that movie.


__bobafett__ t1_j5z8p0r wrote

I assume most nuclear weapons are larger and require larger aircraft to transport and drop. These would be smaller and considered a stealth missile, which would be carried by low detectibility aircraft.


MandolinMagi t1_j632loc wrote

Nukes are down to the size of 500lb bombs these days. Lightest production nukes was like 100lb, for the 155mm howitzer.

They never went smaller due to security and practicality concerns.


fairydellfarm t1_j5z3ujg wrote

i mean the second season was awful so this isnt a surprise


shogi_x t1_j5z6i48 wrote

I thought it was OK. Biggest problem IMO was the anticlimactic ending. Everything up until that moment felt like a setup for a much bigger conspiracy, but it somehow still felt small and wrapped up too easily.


theusher88 t1_j5z78br wrote

New, mediocre writers. Like many shows these days it followed the trend of changing the showrunners and the writers room from season to season, that's why it's so inconsistent.


khroshan OP t1_j61rd9x wrote

What other shows suffered from this?


theusher88 t1_j61tbl0 wrote

Just from recent memory and a few that I dropped after the quality plummeted: The Mosquito Coast, Barbarians, Westworld (Nolan and Joy remained showrunners but they changed the writers every season). It's also pretty common for Amazon originals, it happened to The Man in the High Castle, Goliath and recently Carnival Row.


mickeyflinn t1_j5zhco3 wrote

> Why is Jack Ryan S3 so terrible?

Because the show is just terrible.

Season one started great, they reskinned the character but stayed pretty close to the source material. A lot of that got thrown out in the final two episodes and it became very close the shit show that was to follow.

Season two was just wanna be SEAL team dogshit.


jimincookeville t1_j61jbb6 wrote

I was very disappointed in the entire season 3. Absolutely underwhelming. I had high hopes but it just wasn't very good.


Prax150 t1_j5zcns0 wrote

I'm trying to play devil's advocate here and look for ways to defend it but... yeah no, the show's gone off a cliff. I remember S1 being so good, a perfect spiritual successor to the 24/Homeland style show but perhaps more grounded and serious. I don't remember a single thing from S2 but I guess I enjoyed it? And this season had some good moments (the >!bomb in a bridge episode!< was fun and well done) but generally it was just kind of a nothing burger action show best enjoyed with your brain turned off, and it's a shame it's come down to this.


khroshan OP t1_j61rj4e wrote

I agree with it going off a cliff, and you're right about season 2, I can't remember anything interesting about it at all, except that it involved South America.


PhillipJCoulson t1_j5zus3m wrote

It reminds me of Jason Bourne 3. Just bigger and more locations for the sake of doing it. Script comes second.


anasui1 t1_j60w4si wrote

you mean Ultimatum? I have never disagreed with an opinion this quickly, movie is phenomenal


PhillipJCoulson t1_j61ab9k wrote

Wow. I never heard anyone say that. The movie barely makes any sense. They were writing the script on the fly and shows. But we all enjoy what we enjoy.


anasui1 t1_j61bvk0 wrote

yes, script is ultra thin and nonsensical (Bourne wants to punish those who made him a machine, but he volunteered for it so huh? your fault, Jason) but as two plus hours of him wrecking literally anyone in his way and eluding the hell out of every surveillance device ever invented I find it one of the best action movies in, well, a lot of years. I also like Greengrass' style so


PhillipJCoulson t1_j61dkwy wrote

Fair enough. I still like knowing who is being killed and why. And why suitcase bombs are blowing up etc.


anasui1 t1_j61e8ke wrote

haha ok, it's not that convoluted but I watched it a lot of times, more than 20 probably, so had plenty of chances to connect the dots


Chataboutgames t1_j5z7eaa wrote

The show is just the embodiment of phoning it in. I thought I wanted more kinda cheezy, forgettable action stories. I think I forgot how goddamn boring they can be.


Frog-Face666 t1_j615abt wrote

Hello, to answer your question it's because of season 1 and 2 existing.


Corvax1266 t1_j645tnl wrote

It feels like there are five years in-between seasons. I couldn't tell you what happened in season 1 or 2 at this point


autobahn t1_j676iz7 wrote

It's a popcorn show. I enjoy it for what it is. And it's great at being a popcorn show.


Mysterboxofrubbish t1_j5zfhr9 wrote

Because there are simply not enough writers for the sheer amount of greenlit shows, the pathway to being a writer is so underpaid and under supported yet so critical that there’s no real pathway anymore. Good Writing is hard and bad writing is easy and they’re stretched too thin.

It’s the only way I can see it being like this


mickeyflinn t1_j5zthl0 wrote

> Because there are simply not enough writers for the sheer amount of greenlit shows,

I don't believe this at all.


marioquartz t1_j5zyjsu wrote

> How in the world did they speedboat from the middle of the Black Sea all the way to the outskirts of Athens?

They stop in the North of Greece. And then they travel in car to Athens.

And other details are you dont paying attention.


khroshan OP t1_j61pwjs wrote

No, they didn't. Check Legrena on a map. It's south of Athens.