Has any show done a series long antagonist better than Angel?

Submitted by KneeHighMischief t3_10m7n46 in television

(Spoilers ahead of obviously)

I was recently watching a show that had a villain that clearly should have ended in the first season. That got me thinking about how well Angel was able to utilize Wolfram & Hart throughout the series. There wasn't ever a point for me during the show where I felt cheated by the fact they weren't able to be defeated.

I think the fact that it was a larger entity made up of different characters certainly helped quite a bit. Lindsey, Lilah, Gavin & others while all working towards the same ultimate goal didn't feel interchangeable. They had their own dynamic with Angel. Then when one of the lawyers got killed off it left they were replaced by an identical character.

Also them receding into the background during certain portions of the run helped as well. There were significant portions of the show when they weren't the focus (Jasmine or Holtz). So when moved to the forefront again it was still interesting

I could be blanking on some obvious examples of shows that did it better. Nothing is coming to mind though.

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LopsidedIdeal t1_j621snl wrote

Angel: You're not gonna win.

Holland: Well...no. Of course we aren't. We have no intention of doing anything so prosaic as "winning". [laughs]

Angel: Then why?

Holland: Hmm? I'm sorry, why what?

Angel: Why fight?

Holland: That's really the question you should be asking yourself, isn't it? See, for us, there is no fight. Which is why winning doesn't enter into it. We...go on, no matter what. Our firm has always been here...in one form or another. The Inquisition. The Khmer Rouge. We were there when the very first cave man clubbed his neighbor. See, we're in the hearts and minds of every single living being. And that, friend, is what's making things so difficult for you. See, the world doesn't work in spite of evil, Angel. It works with us. It works because of us.

[elevator comes to a stop and the doors open, revealing Los Angeles]

Holland: Welcome to the home office.

Angel: This isn't...

Holland: Oh, you know it is. You know that better than anyone. Things you've seen. Things you've-well, done. You see, if there wasn't evil in every single one of them out there-why, they wouldn't be people. They'd all be angels.

[Angel slowly walks out of the elevator]

Holland: Have a nice day.

these encounters only served to keep Wolfram and Hart as this huge evil that wasn't just the big bad of the season like Buffy's first evil felt, Wolfram feels like the worst of humanity personified throughout all the seasons, it doesn't seem like they'd ever truely disappear as long as humanity exists they exist.

I don't think anything has come close to them throughout any television show I've watched since.

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AKAkorm t1_j61ra9h wrote

He’s not always a direct antagonist but Boyd Crowder from Justified?

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King_Wataba t1_j6h5fgk wrote

Which is great because he wasn't supposed to be a recurring character but Walton Goggins was so amazing they wrote him into the rest of the show

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NotARandomNumber t1_j61omj3 wrote

Laughs in Gul Dukat

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vadergeek t1_j6336dl wrote

I don't know, Dukat was messy. Felt like they couldn't quite decide if they were redeeming him, then there's all the Pah-wraith stuff that doesn't quite work.

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EyeDontReplyToIdiots t1_j67u4vy wrote

I think they knew quite well what Dukat’s trajectory would be. They introduced a facet of him for a while where he felt that he could change, but ultimately his pride and ego won out. A shit leopard can’t change his spots, and thought it was an interesting arc they explored.

I somewhat agree with you in regards to the pah-wraith stuff later down the line, namely because it goes a little too heavy into the super natural for a Star Trek show.

But what helps it along I think is the death of his daughter - his lust for power over the weak bajorans (in his eyes), intersecting with his then budding religious beliefs, co-opting or appropriating it from them in a sense. It’s a perverse play on his established character thus far in the show and thought it was also a great arc for him.

Hoping that all made sense I dunno it’s 5AM and haven’t slept lol. I just like talking about Star Trek

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vadergeek t1_j67yd5e wrote

> I think they knew quite well what Dukat’s trajectory would be.

I'm not sure they did. I mean, look how hard Nana Visitor had to fight against the idea of a Kira/Dukat romance.

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King_Wataba t1_j6h5kpa wrote

They should have left his story with him being broken. It was a crime to not let Wynn be the conduit of the Pah-wraiths.

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Lead23avf t1_j62mip9 wrote

I’ll always love angel because for me it was the first show I watched that had a overarching storyline with a villain (Jasmine) that lasted all season. It still had monster of the week but if I recall correctly she was the overarching big baddy for the season.

And the ending of the season, where everyone was happy to be part of a hive mind and angel defeated her then it was kinda questioned whether this is what was best for humanity…shit blew my 14 year old mind

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Fat-Villante t1_j61pjdh wrote

That's a very fair point, I can't come up with a better one off the top of my head, although W&H has a few things about it that don't really make any sense so it can get slightly cringy at times

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raziel_r t1_j63z904 wrote

The observers in Fringe tied the whole series together, I'd say they do it better since Angel was lacking focus at times.

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LowCalligrapher3 t1_j6cnuur wrote

There's a reason Angel is my number 1 favorite TV show and you just nailed it! Closest to another series matching this quality for me has gotta be my number 2 favorite Smallville.

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