Submitted by TimeTraveler3056 t3_10p0tal in television
That is all. I'm starting to feel that I won't ever get answers. What's something you've watched that lets you down and you're like WTF, should I continue? It's the craziest freaking thing I've seen and I should have known better.
It is International Assassin, and I'm right there with you. In a vacuum, it's probably my favorite episode of TV. It's so damn emotional, creative, brilliantly paced, and makes you care about characters that have only existed in the space of that episode.
I'd kill to experience The Leftovers for the first time again. IYKYK.
Totally agree. Have never felt the emotions I felt from that episode, from visual media before. It was like a poem. I fucking love that show.
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Watching that show during Covid lockdowns was quite an experience
Yessss. When they were showing the politicians arguing that only 3% of the population had gone, nbd…
Easily one of my top 5 episodes of television, a really exceptional journey
You guys are about to sell me on the show
I remember this episode being one of the first times I caught myself standing up as the episode unfolded due to the emotional response it evoked in me.
I've seen bots and pieces as my wife was watching it when it came out but I never finished it because she watched a bunch without me and I couldn't be bothered to try and catch up. Worth a watch? I don't remember anything about it other than the basic premise
Lol. I knew it had to be that episode.
I need to rewatch that. Just an absolute brain fuck.
The first season was wild, but then it went off the rails, in the best possible way in later seasons.
I don’t think they could have continued such a dour show without going bonkers with it.
Also might be my favorite episode of anything ever.
If you're looking for answers you're watching the wrong show. The Leftovers never intended to give answers, it's about characters having to live with the inexplicable and thrives in that.
Exactly. The show is a study of the human condition and it does so impeccably. Showcasing how people react to things that don’t make sense would be undercut having some kind of logical explanation to it all, in the end.
But why were the teenage girls running around the woods naked at the beginning of season 2?
Last act of freedom before fully joining the cult.
It does give enough answers though I think. I never bought the theory about Nora lying.
It doesn't matter if she lied, what matters is that Kevin believed her
I agree that it doesn't "matter" if she lied, narratively.
However, trying to decide whether or not she lied is still kind of a fair question as a viewer.
It's not like you can conclusively say "you missed the point of the show if you're asking whether or not she lied."
But, you will certainly like the ending more if you don't linger on that.
The show told people directly for a whole season that the key to enjoyment and probably happiness for the characters, should they choose to pursue it, was just "letting the mystery be."
Yes but that doesn’t mean it didn’t want people to speculate or have a general interest just that it shouldn’t ruin your enjoyment for not getting a definitive answer. You can still “ask” and “wonder” and people on the show have even talked about what they believed actually happened. Again the whole “let the mystery be” is about being ok without an answer not having an opinion or a take on it.
Nora's story is purposefully ambiguous but that doesn't mean we're supposed to ignore the mystery. The mystery is the point.
Neither did I. But partly because that was my theory the whole time. So for me she just confirmed it. Never considered she might be lying until I looked online
The cool part is the writers basically have said she both is lying and is not lying and both are true. It’s just up to the audience to decide… although they have definite opinions internally.
They actually did want to shoot an episode on the other side with Nora but it was cut because they went from 10 eps to 8 in S3. The other episode would have been back in Jarden with Kevin’s kids. But they made it clear they did not shoot these and they are not shown to us… we got the story as is. So did she lie?
It's not lying if she believes it, and in relation to the episode op is talking about and its direct follow up in season 3 dont we all still wonder if it really happened?
She might say it's the truth and even believe it's the truth but is it really? Is everything that happened in this episode real?
Everything that happened in the episode was real... but if she is lying or not is the question
So was Kevin really in another world where he was the President and/or his identical twin brother? ...and if he told the story to you would you be able to believe him? That's the question to me, more than whether Nora is lying or not.
Her story may be a lie but how can Kevin think that given what he's experienced? Heck everyone in the world has experienced the craziness of the original disappearance how can you discount her story?
Was she lying? Telling the truth? Maybe, either way who am I to judge her experience.
Kevin being president was a different episode. Everything in book of Nora was real. The Kevin episode probably isn’t real of course. But Noras is. There is a long standing thing about Nora not being able to lie… that is prior to the book of Nora where she gains the ability to. But she may or may not have decided to use it. She can lie now, but will she?
The stuff Kevin goes through is absolutely real. There’s characters and things we see in it that just don’t make sense why they’d be there if he was somehow dreaming.
Well, there was a way to prove his identity <flop>
Define "real"
In the sense that it did happen and there were higher powers at play.
Happened where though? In his head? In an alternate dimension? Purgatory? The same "other side" that the people (and Nora) went to? Was he alive and teleported or dead and there?
I just think "real" is too finite a concept. Of course it did happen (we watched it!) but I don't know that it was real.
Let the mystery be. We don’t get the logistics of how it works but it was absolutely real. Maybe you’re having a different conversation here. My point is that whatever happened isn’t some figment or dream where “it was all in is head” or doesn’t have some tangibility. When he died he was very much transported somewhere and this same place is where the guy who says he’s god was also transported and there’s actually other characters that mention the place. Who knows what it truly is but it very much is real.
Not to “why?”
> If you're looking for answers you're watching the wrong show. The Leftovers never intended to give answers, it's about characters having to live with the inexplicable and thrives in that.
♫ Let the mystery be ♫
It is a better execution of the same (or similar) concepts Lindelof was aiming for with Lost. The problem with Lost, in that respect, is that it leaned too heavily into the mystery, where Leftovers kept things a bit more focused.
To be fair to Lindelof when The Leftovers was first airing he explicitly made clear even during promo interviews the audience should not expect answers! If the creator outright tells you that, I see that as fair.
Also Lost is trash, though.
Watched all of both.
I generally hate mystery box shows, but The Leftovers is a big exception because it ends the show so brilliantly, IMO (trying not to spoil anything).
That's because the show is about the box, not what's inside it.
(I can't tell if this is profound or totally vacuous, sorry.)
> The Leftovers never intended to give answers
"I don't understand what's happening."
"Me neither ... ... it's OK."
I've always enjoyed that a show specifically about characters having to deal with not having answers is most commonly criticized for not offering answers
I mean the intro music for the last two seasons was "Let the Mystery Be" they clearly wanted to tell the audience they were not going to get all the answers to the mystery of the sudden departure. The show (along with other Lindelof shows like Lost) was more about the characters and as to whether or not they got their stories resolved.
Just wait for every episode of season 3.
What do you mean? Lion Cult Sex Boat was totally normal.
The interaction between Matt Jameson and the Guy claiming to be God was amazing in that episode. (I think thats when that happened)
Every Matt centric episode was quality storytelling. One of my favorite characters ever
David Burton, and man does that character offer more across subsequent watches. Bill Camp is one of those "that guy" actors that just always delivers, and The Leftovers gave him stellar material to work with. I particularly love him in the S2 finale where he's pointing out how ridiculous it is that Kevin feels the task--singing--is beneath him, having done what he did already in International Assassin.
Let the mystery be
I'm so glad they changed the theme song, cause that song was perfection
I also liked the varying opening credit songs for season 3.
Leftovers season 2 might be my favorite season of television ever. It's in the group photo, at least.
You're not alone! Top-to-bottom the best season of TV I've ever seen.
I think it's hard to say what the "best" season of TV would be, but the Leftovers S2 is definitely among my favorite.
Like, if someone says season 4 of the Wire is the best season in television history, I won't argue against that. But if you ask me which one I would prefer to re-watch, I'm picking the Leftovers just about every time.
We...we must be friends, because as I was writing my original comment, my thought was "yes today I think it's better than S4 of The Wire but tomorrow I might think differently"
I'm currently re-watching the Wire, and I'm just about done with the second season. I'm really stoked for the third and fourth seasons. It doesn't get much better than that.
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Twin Peaks The Return episode 8
Yeah that is probably the weirdest episode of TV ever made, and I loved it.
I also loved International Assassin.
Was listening to a podcast(the watch) where lindelof was on, and he spoke alot about how much he loved Twin Peaks so maybe that's connected
International Assassin aired 2 years before the Twin Peaks episode, and as far as I know Lindelof isn’t a time traveller
I've never seen the last season of Twin Peaks so I dont even remember when it aired but lindelof was on the podcast to promote the final season so he might've been inspired by the earlier season or something Idk here's a link to that episode of the podcast, the watch
Twin peaks influenced pretty much all of television that followed it. It’s like having a film director say how they love citizen Kane
>I'm starting to feel that I won't ever get answers.
FYI, the show isn't about the "why" of the Departure.
It's about seeing how people reacted to the global trauma of the Departure.
Also, I absolutely loved the Leftovers.
>FYI, the show isn't about the "why" of the Departure.
I think this is the issue many viewers that had negative or disappointed views of the show had. The show sets you up with a hell of an amazing premise, but it takes you in a different direction than what many expected to find out. You either went with it, or you didn't
If I remember correctly, they were very explicit in all the press they did at the time that the show wasn't about why it happened. I think they learned their lesson with Lost.
And yet they kept adding to the mystery. They simply said that as an excuse.
Is that the one where Kevin is >!"dead" in that afterlife/limbo hotel thing?!<
Yes, International Assassin.
Don't drink the water.
The Leftovers is complete insanity
Which episode? Hopefully you're talking about the "hotel" episodes.
It's great 😃
That's my all time favorite episode of any TV show ever in the history of television.
Everyone who enjoys TV as a medium should watch the Leftovers. Fantastic show.
Home, where my thoughts are escaping...
That episode might be in the top best episodes of all time
I feel like the show was pretty clear from the beginning that it wasn't going to provide answers and that wasn't really the point. Unlike Lost where from the way the mysteries were presented made getting answers more integral.
That said the show actually does provide a good answer to at least the main mystery at the end. It's ambiguous if the answer is true or not, but you could just choose to take it at face value.
I came in here fully expecting you meant good weird not bad weird! That episode helped cement the series as one of my all-time favorites. The moment Kevin >!has to select a suit!< I knew it was going to be everything I could want in a television episode.
Homeward bound. I wish I was homeward bound.
Twin peaks the Return wants a word with you…
The show had many episodes where i was left with the question why i should still watch the next. But i can certainly say that it is one of the most satisfiying endings to a show i have ever seen. Every doubt i had was blown away, it was perfect.
The theme song for season 2 of the show is literally “let the mystery be.” You will not get “answers.”
*Plop*
I am torn by The Leftovers. To me it has many of the Lindelof list of sins. It's a good show but insists upon itself. This episode, to me, feels like Lindelof showing off without caring much whether or not it serves the story or its characters. All three seasons of The Leftovers had three episodes I didn't like. This is one of them. I hated the three final episodes from season 2. Careful plotting and character building go out the window to bend characters out of shape to have a batshit crazy ending. Nora acting stupid when she is far from it. Characters not making phone calls and a long list of plot devices. I hated Assassin because it feels that it's weird just for weirdness sake and many plot devices were written without an endgame in mind (like Lost did), writting yourself into a corner, if you will.
I have no problem with weird shows and episodes. I love Mr. Robot and I feel the weird season two episodes work within the universe of the show. Not for The Leftovers. To me is Lindelof showing off. Again, this is a guy we know well bungles his writing for having no endgame for many of the things he writes. This is the guy behind Lost and Prometheus... a movie that clearly had characters acting dumb, introducing mysterious things without knowing what it all added up to and adding mythos that didn't need to be added and changing lore that didn't need to be changed. Watchmen is amazing but I think it has to do that the source material is batshit crazy to begin with.
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Try any episode of Twin Peaks the Return. Weirdest 18 hours of television you'll ever see
The Leftovers never interested me when it aired on television, but man watching it years after it’s possibly one of my favorite television series of all time.
It's not really that hard to figure out. I'm not trying to sound like a dick here.
But if you've been paying attention to what's been going on with Kevin the whole season, I think it's a very straightforward episode.
And the surreal elements are fairly tame compared to some of the stuff you get in other shows like Twin Peaks.
You won't get answers, I felt the same way than you but you have to change the mindset that the show isn't about getting answers but how the people live and cope with what happened.
i thought you were talking about the boat episode (look out for it in s3), but yes, International Assassin is pretty trippy too.
OP im watching this for the first time too and just finished s2. what a show
Its amazing. And it's bookended perfectly with Homeward Bound, in think episode 10.
I adore that show.
You’ll get enough answers to have closure.
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It only gets weirder and leaves more questions open on S3.
Absolutely. Fucking. Brilliant.
Doom Patrol.
The Third Day...
This show reminds me of wonderful Sunday night's watching this and Penny Dreadful. The sub reddits were great too for both shows.
Fantastic direction from Craig Zobel, check out Mare of Easttown for more from him if you want. Also co-created Homestar Runner, interestingly enough. Also directed a fantastic episode of Westworld
He also did The Hunt, written by the very same writers as the episode he directed. I thought it was a funny movie, enjoyable at least
C’mon , what about when Jesus gets his head ripped off by a lion on the Tassie ferry
Bob Dylan lyrics level existentialism played out in live action that one
lol i realized that they never gonna unveil anything about those missing people just after the first few episodes so i stop there
Thanks for warning; if it even resembles the nonsensical plot lines of The OA even in the slightest, I think I will stay away.
Lost
I avoided this because Lost was such a let down. I generally don't like mystery boxes and it sounds like 18 hours into it and you still aren't getting any answers. Like lost. Some of the shit will never make sense or be answered I would fear, and that has kept me from watching this show.
SO, how much like lost is this mystery box show?
Stylistically it's similar, but The Leftovers is much better than Lost, imo (and I was a pretty big fan of Lost). It's been a minute since I watched the Leftovers, but there's not a bunch of dangling unfinished story threads hanging all over the place, like Lost, if that's what you mean.
There's mystery that's unexplained sure, but not a ton of loose ends (that I recall).
The Leftovers is among my very favorite shows of all time.
If you’re gonna jump the shark you better do it with style.
Just keep watching seriously- it’s so worth it
Are you talking about International Assassin? That’s my favorite episode of any TV show ever.
Hahahahahaha, just you wait for season 3’s reboot of the literal Bible. Definitely keep watching ;)
wait until you get to 3-7
You spelled “best” wrong!
I am not a fan of weird bottle episodes but dang The Leftovers is sooooo great. I didn't understand International Assassin and the hotel until season 3. It was worth it.
It's my favorite tattoo I have also. My favorite episode of TV ever.
Dude I think about this episode all the time
Lol, it's an achievement in television. Probably isn't the show for you.
It was a boring show.
Season 2 is overrated. Lindelof crawled up his own ass a bit, fortunately he crawled down before season 3 and it turned out excellent.
A perfect episode of a perfect example of a show that went off totally off the rails.
Season one had so much promise and they scrapped practically everything they were building just to make a jaunt through the funhouse. This show was a spectacular disappointment.
This is possibly the most hit-or-miss show I’ve ever seen. If you like continuous storytelling where plots aren’t dropped at the side of the road for the next weird thing: this show probably isn’t for you.
Edit: took the downvoters a minute, but there you are in all your pathetic fragility. God forbid any of us have an opinion and we don’t just stroke it to the circle jerk. I wish you all understood that I don’t write this to criticize your taste. I’m telling the next likeminded sucker not to buy all the gushing, like I did. It absolutely isn’t for everyone and many will be left incredibly disappointed.
>Season one had so much promise and they scrapped practically everything they were building just to make a jaunt through the funhouse. This show was a spectacular disappointment.
See I'd say that season one had a great foundation but was entirely too grim to be a multi-season success. The path the show takes in the next two seasons is what makes it incredible.
It’s the premise of the entire show: how do people deal with tremendous loss? That’s grim. It takes an ages old concept, and applies it in a unique way (instead of war, famine or disease, it’s something supernatural).
It started as an intriguing character study and became a Twilight Zone ripoff, except the wacky, unbelievable shit kept happening to the same characters.
I don’t know anyone who deals with loss by having a dead person in his head, investigating disappearing ponds, or hopping into the death realm not once, but twice. That shit with his dad’s magic song was plenty fucked, too.
By all means, find it incredible. I know you’re not alone and there is zero point arguing taste. I think it was an incredible disaster, and I’m not alone, either.
I’m with you. Hated the show and it’s exactly up my alley.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4550868/?ref_=tt_eps_top
It's the highest-rated episode of the whole series and one of the highest-rated TV episodes on IMDb with a 9.6/10.
Cool, it’s a great standalone episode, I suppose. If I wasn’t so frustrated with the general insanity of the shows “direction,” I might appreciate it better.
Other than the characters, please tell me how it connects to season one. My point is story continuity, and the lack thereof.
You Leftovers fans are just so precious. If more people watched your show (like, give it the viewership of Sopranos or Breaking Bad), those numbers would absolutely plummet. People who like a show enough to keep watching rate it high? Who could’ve possibly guessed?
What would it be if everyone watched it?
I think Breaking Bad is spectacular and I think the rating of Ozymandias is way too high, so…
jogoso2014 t1_j6hscmk wrote
If we’re talking about International Assassin, it’s one of my all time favorites.