looktowindward t1_j8v2ft9 wrote on February 17, 2023 at 3:42 AM

Reply to comment by SteelMarch in TIL the 'Negro Motorist Green Book' was based on an earlier 'Jewish Vacation Guide' book which outlined places that Jews were not unwelcome to stay in America in 1917. by aripy

Restrictive covenants predated Levittowns. That William Levitt did this is hardly representative of the views of Jews, most of whom were subject to restrictive covenants and other forms of racial redlining. In my parents subdivision, all the Jews were restricted to one street. In the 1970s. I though it was wonderful that we had Jewish neighbors when I was a kid. I didn't know that it was the only street in the neighborhood that realtors would show to Jews.

SteelMarch t1_j8w9lp8 wrote on February 17, 2023 at 12:08 PM

Yes but not by that much the 1920s. And not at the scale which Levittowns enabled. Though it can easily be argued if it wasn't Levitt who did it anyone else could have. What I specifically point to is his removal of the Jewish from the list with his keeping of people of color. Which is unsurprising for the time. Or the passing of the NHA. To blame Levitt for everything would be wrong. What I specifically state is he set the standard and he removed Jewish people from it. But that does not mean it didn't apply everywhere nor that everyone copied exactly what he did one to one. But, when he had a choice, and actively ignored the FHA. He still excluded people of color. As I said. Moving the needle.

Sorry if I sound rude. It's just on this site. Whenever anything about African American's are posted it's done in a way to somehow suggest that the Jewish American basically helped them out of poverty even though at every step in things such as the civil rights movement (which they did not do.), they stepped on them to get out of the way. I hope I don't come off as Anti-Semitic which is not my goal, but rather to point out statements that are false and untrue. Though I do question how these statements were propagated. Especially given that often the sources linked flat out say, it is not true.

Anyways, Redlining has a complicated history, I am not blaming William Levitt or Jewish American's for it all. Just one for moving the needle and trying to stop the spread of misinformation about things that are often posted here that are not true. But well -17 downvotes. Doesn't really look like I've convinced anyone. But, oh well. It's still worth trying.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/28/nyregion/at-50-levittown-contends-with-its-legacy-of-bias.html

But yes I see your point.

>As late as the mid-1960's, Mr. Levitt was still defending segregated housing, at that time in Maryland. And blacks were not the only targets. Although he was the grandson of a rabbi, Mr. Levitt also built housing on Long Island that excluded Jews.

Though this wasn't always the case or the standard. But more over it seems to be an isolated case, if it happened at all. In a way to somehow suggest Levitt wasn't a racist but just doing "business". But his other actions, would seem to suggest otherwise.

looktowindward t1_j8xoydx wrote on February 17, 2023 at 6:15 PM

If you make the statement that Jewish Americans stepped on African Americans to get them out of the way ... Yes, that's explicitly antisemitic. Collective blame or guilt is always racist, definitionally.

I'm guessing you would be offended deeply if there was some sort of collective guilt assigned to African Americans but you feel free to assign it to Jews. This has led to horrific violence both historically and currently.

SteelMarch t1_j8xr07v wrote on February 17, 2023 at 6:28 PM

Well I guess there's no way to win with someone who will go to any lengths to take anything said out of context.

Levitt set the standard. When given the choice he allowed his own people in and actively discriminated against people of color. What else I am saying is that people on this site like to claim white saviorism fromt he Jewish American population that never happened. You can read even the times of Israel which is a biased source that states. This did not happen. I'm not going to waste my time on someone who's going to call me an anti semite for calling out this sort of misinformation and behavior. The harsh reality is that Jewish Americans were just as racist as other Americans. This isn't a collective blame what I wrote is what historians have wrote about the issues and topics at hand. To them black Americans were just another scapegoat. Someone else to blame that isn't them. Keeping their heads low. It's not a pretty thing to admit or say. But it's allegedly what happened. I can't say I blame them or anything but that they should not be trying to represent them as the saviors of African Americans which they are not. Though I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, just misinformation. And anyone could have spread it but coincidentally it's always spread using Albert Einstein to suggest it. But that's also, just a coincidence. I guess more appropriate to call it a myth.