You must log in or register to comment.

WaterChi t1_janshm6 wrote

.. which is why it's particularly cruel when people tell you it's your fault if you can't do it. They are laughing at those less fortunate, mocking them.


meat-juice OP t1_jao1wi0 wrote

This was my outrage as well... We should all admit that it rarely works in the Horatio-Alger-way we think it does


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jao5exg wrote

"You only need three things to be a success!"

And what are those?

"Hard work and sticking to a worthy goal."

That's two. Most people do that for at least three rounds of not being promoted.

"Right, the third is a special something."

Would that be tremendous luck and/or lots of people with money who like the cut of your jib?

"Well, don't tell everyone the secret -- it's so EASY."


meat-juice OP t1_jao9sgn wrote

>Would that be tremendous luck and/or lots of people with money who like the cut of your jib?

And the jib was a person's nose... but before that, it was the sail on a ship lol.


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jaoc533 wrote

Wow -- thanks for the origin of "jib". So many terms come from sailing, but, did not know the "jib" started with noses and THEN the leading sail on a boat. But, I get that it does look like a nose on a schooner.


96_doomer t1_jaq4rsq wrote

As someone who ain't successful or whatever, I believe the third might be, evaluating a problem and finding a logical solution to it, keep changing tactics and angles until u find a solution. Luck is also a factor, true, but we can't just sit around doing nothing cause only luck matters.

Again, I'm. Not saying this as though a successful person, quite far from it I Believe, but in my small experiences, we usually don't take action due to many factors such as fear and all, but blaming it fully on luck is one of em I feel.


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jas418g wrote

I have found many solutions and have had massively great ideas my entire life. Portions of these good ideas have become major companies in technology and services. It hasn't made me a dime.

It really takes having a mentor or something that teaches you how to make a concept a reality AND THEN lot's of luck and access to money.

I'm not blaming it ALL on luck, but, not saying that people who are successful are lucky, is creating a sense of entitlement and hubris in rich assholes who are surrounded by people making apologies for their greed.


96_doomer t1_jas6qnl wrote

Could u share Some of the solutions u made for tech that reached the real world? Like I'm curious.


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jasw9x5 wrote

It didn't REACH the "real world" I just wrote up a lot of designs and ideas that became real world by someone else.

A method for amplifying signals by using lasers passed through a ferro-fluid lens shaped by magnetism (which diverts the laser when the signal is passed through it, and then the detector can work with the MORE dimensional aspects of the signal -- but, probably obsolete, however, the lensing system is still useful). 3 kinds of 3d printers. Using maser effects to burn tumors without an operation. Ultrasonic destruction of kidney stones. Noise cancellation. Light pipes to funnel light from a collector around a building. Targeted ultrasonics. Motion dampeners used in skyscrapers. When I was working with a start-up for international trade that bypassed most of the need to export currency, they wanted a clearing house and I thought it would be good to create a system for auctioning (what we might call Ebay today, but with a better guarantee of the quality of a product buyers and sellers). Fiber optics used inside bodies and expanding arteries (I used a parasol instead of the inflated bag, because I figured you'd also want to scrape and vacuum the lining). Holographic interference to increase CDs to an Ectabyte (or, well just a lot more) -- nope, sorry, that one isn't REAL yet, but I use some of the same techniques in a holographic storage sphere). Hydraulic tires.

That's just a bit I off the top of my head from 30 years ago. Mostly a lot of predicted physics like that the Hubble constant wouldn't be constant but accelerating when I was ten. That gravity is a byproduct of space-time. Most of that "gadget level" stuff was before I was 14.

Since then it was stochastic printing techniques. Robotic printers which -- wow, are inkjet printers we know and love because they stuck them in a box with a ribbon cable. My idea was using a hex grid and special wheels and the inkjet printer traveled, over a billboard or a house -- I didn't just want to reinvent a printer. Boring!

Virtual currency -- I thought it would be crazy to do something without some tangible asset it was chained to. And the process allows people to pay a discounted rate and use tricks like multinationals do to get around realizing profits or trade barriers. Still want to do my version of it. Anyway, it uses tricks with financial instruments to I think be legal, and immune to some of the crackdowns that surprisingly never happened with virtual currencies we have today -- which is probably because they WANT to enable organized crime, money laundering and tax shelters.

Pretty sure a lot more will be proven true like that there is more than one quantum field and that gluons are just extra dimensional products of quarks and the three other primary forces are also space-time but in different dimensions than gravity. The "missing mass" in galaxies doesn't require dark matter to explain, but that spinning black holes have much of their gravity in orbit around their mass and that makes the galaxy seem more massive as a whole than it otherwise appears internally. The coldest possible object would actually be vibrating in sympathy to the Universal carrier frequency -- which, we can't directly detect because it's "spacetime itself giggling" -- best to describe this as a drawing on piece of paper doesn't seem different to the sheet of paper if it's blowing in a breeze. We will only know this VERY HIGH frequency when we get it right.

This last one I think is easy to prove. When I learned a few months ago that light can orbit a black hole AND that gravity and light travel at exactly the same speed -- I realized that "duh" gravity has to be orbiting black holes, otherwise observations showing it's within nanoseconds over millions of light years would not be possible because the light would be subject to the influence of gravity wells and arrive much later -- so, gravity is ALSO subject to gravity wells. So, if I had someone good at math apply the Lorentz functions to the time dilation of a galaxy and factor in the "missing mass" of it's apparent gravity, that should give us a starting point for predicting the spin rate and mass of the black holes within the system. Observation of a few galaxies might find the factors involved; but it's relativity.

I'd really like to implement an idea for mass production of single atom sheets of matter. And, thinking about this, has led my to an idea of how to influence the quantum carrier wave aspects of space-time. And, this lead me to predict yet another state of matter; coherent matter. Pretty much exactly like coherent light. But, I it can now be put into a "phase" and potentially phase through other matter.

The difficulty of putting sheets of lasers very close together (since the photon field is larger than the atoms), and that led me to think we might be able to use a constructed "inverse hologram" that allows for the selective release of laser energy (used in projecting a hologram), by removing the interference embedded in the hologram. Of course, this might require a zero gravity situation to pull off if we wanted to print in 3D all at once particulate matter with different types of atoms selected by frequency.

I don't want to get into the more advanced ideas and predictions. It's not being wrong that bothers me, it's all the things I've been right about and not having an outlet for it. I'm not quite Nickolas Tesla, but I can relate to him. If I didn't try and slow my brain down and NOT invent I wouldn't be able to keep a job. I'm barely able to force myself to do the boring work I do now. I think learning game development and AI and great videos on astrophysics on YouTube have kept me sane.

Anyway, this isn't to brag. Because I doubt one person in a thousand believes any of it. These weren't done at the material science level -- so, there's a hell of a lot of work before an idea (correct or not) can become a reality. It's just, that, having the foresight to know what should work -- I think that's kind of cool and means I might know something of value.

TL;DR >> Great ideas aren't even a small factor in success. Is Mark Zuckerberg like the tenth guy to allow multiple users to put pictures and comments on a website? Very few billionaires had original ideas - they just implemented them. How? With tenacity, money and luck. With ruthlessness, they don't even need to be above average.


96_doomer t1_jat7ha9 wrote

OK there's a lot to unpack there, and if i responded to each of those points, it might take quite some time. I'm not saying those are all boring stuff, would like to discuss about some of those, but for now, I'm assuming u understand gravity, could u eli5 that for me, like explain in very simple terms. Cause I don't seem to understand what gravity is or like why it works the way it does, kinda like magnets, I don't understand what that is either or what makes it work that way. So let's start there lol. Please tell me about gravity, but as I mentioned before, try explaining in a very simple way like u would to a child, so I may try and understand it. No, I'm not joking lol, I'm curious, cause my brain don't have enough knowledge or understanding to get an idea of what gravity is, like u know, when it finally clicks.


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jatfjv7 wrote

>I'm assuming u understand gravity, could u eli5 that for me,

Gravity, as per the most popular "official" theories in physics describes it. Is not in itself a force, but is the result of what they call a "Time Gradient." Before this, relativity and gravity wells distorting light had been described as similar to how a long shoreline causes waves to reach a beach in parallel. It's a similar concept. The leading edge of a photon or any object is slowed down by time itself -- as objects with mass have an effect on the rate of time. Enough of this "gravity well" and eventually objects or light falls into it. A video might do a better job of explaining this;

But the "curve" they talk about in space (or the gravity well), is the relative difference in rate of time. If you put a clock on Earth, and one in empty space without relative acceleration, the clock in space will move faster.

It doesn't stop there. If you REALLY want to understand the difference between a magnetic field and an electric current, it's all about relativity. If an electron is spinning about a metal pole -- it becomes a magnetic field. Here is a good explanation;


Since I grabbed a book on relativity when I was a kid until about a year ago, it's been bothering me how relativity doesn't really work in a complex model with one space-time curve. So I always thought it was incomplete. Relativity itself is relative depending on which thing you are measuring. Which I doubt would trouble the better versed physicists. It's like having a gear spinning another gear. No matter how fast the driving gear goes, the other gear turns at the same rate relative to it. However -- that doesn't work when you have all the gears at every angle connected in the Universe. Relativity cannot allow for anything to move with one value for the spacetime curve. There is no one value of time, nor is there any way to determine if you are coming or going from an object. Einstein discovered his theory of relativity trying to figure out how particles created by cosmic rays striking the atmosphere that decayed so rapidly they didn't have time to reach the earth, regularly could make the trip. So he realized that the decay rate of the particle to itself was not changing, but it was extended in our time frame due to its relative acceleration. Their theory posits Earth's time is slowed a tiny bit in the same process so you can't say which is accelerating towards the other -- it's all from the Observers point of view. However, the smaller particle is getting a greater slowdown in its observed time than the Earth is (relative mass). But -- the Earth is also just a bunch of particles. If all physics is local (a principle and fundamental theory other than ideas of entanglement and spooky at a distance might suggest), how is there cumulative effects? Meanwhile, the particle that lasts longer than it should, is moving away at high velocity from something else. So from a certain point of view, space is expanding between objects hurtling at high speed towards each other, and contracting as they retreat. And, that goes both ways when we talk about stars. However, the effect of relativity between high velocity particles at different vectors has to be huge. There is an aggregate value of spacetime curvature that is the baseline, and then another relative curve between each moving particle. So space-time is very bumpy and is not experienced the same way by each observer. Just on average.

A magnetic field exerts a force only on moving particles. Thus cosmic rays are diverted as they move towards the earth by our magnetic field, in sort of a reverse of how gravity attracts larger, slower particles. The force is proportional to the velocity. And, isn't velocity about relative time?

Simply put; things taking time to get from point A to B is why we have space. If we could move at infinite speed -- there would be no distance or "space."

So when I think about relativity, it requires more than one TIME and that everything on a different vector has a different relative time in relationship to everything else -- so then the "slope" of the gravity well is a average value -- it's not the same slope for all things.

I'm going a bit further and saying that a lot of our confusion is seeing the Universe from a 4 dimensional perspective (X Y and Z dimensions plus Time). Relativity then is the appearance that time is the same rate from your local point of view. But, at a distance, we can see things violate relativity. This is explained by space being able to violate the "law of relativity" by moving. But what is space?

So I think I've got some ideas around that which I haven't heard from others. It's where quantum physics meets general relativity.


96_doomer t1_jawg4jk wrote

I see that u gave a long explanation, but the problem is, my lack of fundamental knowledge in this subject, so what maybe common knowledge to people in that field, may not be to me. So unfortunately, most of what u just described just went over my head. But I appreciate u taking ur time to explain, although it sucks that I can't understand it, as I don't have the base knowledge in the field.


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jb166x8 wrote

Okay; simply put we have gravity because acceleration or mass causes time to slow down.

Think of it like an eddy in a current. The fast water pushes at the same rate but the slow water resists forward motion, that causes a floating object to start veering towards the eddy.

I think that should be the easy part to understand. It's the same as the "gravity well" and how planets and stars with mass bend the fabric of space.

So, be happy if you get that far. The rest of this is me babbling because I feel like have to spit it out, even if nobody hears or understands it now.

The implication of that gets complicated. We have distance because it takes time to get to places. So relativity and the expansion of the Universe can be seen as a function of time. If it takes more time for light to get from points A and B, then they are now further apart because everything else moves at a ratio of that speed.

When we think about that "bending" of the spacetime curve however, it's not anything we can see -- and I think that's the big clue as to the fact that we might experience 4 dimensions, but it is made of more than that. If it's not obvious, the fourth dimension is time, a ball is 3D and to describe it, you have to not only know where it is, but when it was there. If you lived in a 2 dimensional world, you wouldn't notice if the plane were bent and wiggled. It might have some sort of impact, but none you could see or feel directly.

Well, have to leave it at that. Don't feel bad, very few people understand relativity. And fewer still understand me.


96_doomer t1_jb8pkv4 wrote

Ok I guess this make me more confused, cause then I'm thinking, well what even is time, like does time exist?

Is time just the movement of all existing stuff in the universe?

So if nothing is moving at all, does time move?


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jb9y5rc wrote

Well, there are probably a bunch of theories for "what is time" but I now think I have a few for how time can exist WITHOUT time. In fact, I think it makes better sense of relativity.

Think of time as a gear. Your experience of "speed of light" is the small gear being turned by the large gear of the Universe you exist in. No matter what speed your gear turns at -- the other gear moves relatively faster. We have no idea of how long it takes for the big gear to turn -- but when it does, the clockworks SEEM to be moving always at the same speed RELATIVE to us.

My explanation for TIME however, is that it's ALL the forces. Only, there is more than 4 dimensions. There are 4 dimensions of 4 dimensions and they seem to be the same point in space. They SEEM to have the same rate of time. This is the "local observer" part of relativity.

This is not anyone else's theory. This is my own. The fact that what I think and what current physics might be agreeing with is just that THEY started saying what I've been saying. I don't think there is a new Universe being spawned at every quantum potential. And that has to do with existence itself.

I see time and all laws of physics as the "balancing of the equation." It is NOT forced. It is not the only result. In fact, in my model, all results that can ever possibly be, in every combination were in existence as soon as the Cosmos -- but the Cosmos has no beginning or ending. That doesn't mean anything is predetermined. It's "every state in every location, infinitely."

And so, for a while, It thought of time as an infinite path created by one particle. And where it crosses itself, the closer to one part of the string is to a prior part of a string is the next moment in time. There is no dimension in this realm, but there is length.

However, I think I've improved this model. My latest theory isn't very old on how this works. It came about when learning of how current methods for AI to create works. I was at the same time thinking about how human consciousness works to predict the future and how to throw a spear to meet a moving animal without being any good at math relative to computers that simulate creativity by doing a LOT of math.

And I don't expect this idea to make it easier to understand. But, time is a "connect the dots" game as if done by the most amazing computer ever -- but, nothing needs to be computed - because only one result exists. Every particle and field in our Universe has to be equal and opposite to something else -- the current moment is the zero point resolution. All other potentials, do exist -- but, are not reality. So from the state of the current "closest to zero point" there is another state that is closer, or most close relative to all others at each location for each particle and field. Everything isn't re-created -- it never existed, and for the briefest moment, it is a quantum imbalance passed on to the next location and field.

The thing that makes this a bit harder to think about is that these states only have a location because they are matched up from 16 dimensions and the resultant "agreement" is 3 dimensions and one Time. Any point in space is the null of something that has no position. The wave function of these quantum fields I'm talking about only moves "relative" to the momentary state of position created in our Universe.

It's as if you looked at an infinite TV full of static, and imagined pictures forming from the dust. And then at the same time, think that those random bits had no position except until you imagined the formation of the pictures.

So, each "frame" in the infinite random that solves for zero, moves to the next frame state. Every frame seems like the same time, the same relativity, and following the same rules. The next frame and the next moment are found because nothing else exists. We are NOT computed. We are the internally coherent resolution of infinite wrong values. All other states are cancelled out -- or, just not "reality."

At the same time, there are infinite other groupings going on, having zero interference with each other. But I figure it's 16 dimensional as well (unless their is a greater affinity or a complementary null state based on the prior conditions of the other groupings -- I'm sure these little tiny nothings happen at the small scale all the time). Anyway, Time is the next best structure to create null values with internal coherence at each point in space -- and it creates a point in space. From another point of view -- the Universe is independent pocket universes just passing along imbalances at their edges. It's possible our large Universe does this, but we wouldn't notice it, because the imbalance would be relatively the same throughout the substructure. Think of an ant sitting in a car going up and down a mountain. No worries. Every tiny bit of the Universe acts as if it is the only piece, but collectively, we pass through it, because each piece is passing on the imbalance.

The weird properties of "spooky at a distance", the "uncertainty principle" and quantum tunneling are just peaks through the cracks of this Universe not just 4 dimensions. And the quantum tunneling aspect just started making sense when I was trying to figure out how to travel to a new location be manipulating spacetime. HOW do you know the coordinates? Then I realized -- it's just relativity again. Every position you are in is ZERO. So every other position you could be in is relatively offset from that. So, particles "tunnel" at the small scale, when their current imbalance finds a more close to zero condition nearby than their locality. They just "now exist" where they are closer to the zero point condition no matter where it is. It's a wonder anything stays put and objects don't pass through each other all the time because there is NOTHING there -- because it's all about distortions in spacetime caused by time imbalances. ALL OF IT. All the forces. We have space because we have time. But, there is no time and there is no space in what creates it. But -- that's just a model. The infinite could evolve over time as well. Since it's infinite. Is it changing or has it always been this way and we just participate in a new aspect of it? All answers are equally valid on that question.

Or I could be delusional. There are a lot of other ways I might model this --- but currently, this one seems more right and at least allows for what we experience without relying on any other force.


96_doomer t1_jbd0459 wrote

U completely went over my head again, lol. Again, I dont have the fundamental knowledge in this field as u or many others maybe having. So when u explain with the assumption I maybe knowing it, I have no clue what u maybe be referring to. I think as some quote of Einstein said, if u understand something properly. U would be able to explain it to a child, and I feel i also would have to be explained I'm that way, as this is a field I have not much knowledge in, but nonetheless some questions pop in my Mind at some point in time.

Sometimes, I try using examples to help explain something to others, so they may understand it a bit easier.

Like for example what I feel is happening here is, for eg Ur in oogla land, and the ooogla boogla dont like it when u touch their moongla because it can cause their hoonglas to expand and become loonglafied which can be a toongla situation.

So even though this maybe be a simple explanation, for someone not familiar with oogla land and their language. This sentence may not make much sense to them, as their first questions might be, well what even I'd a oogla boogla?

Then u could perhaps use simple examples which helps the other person understand the situation even without knowing the fundamentals, which in this case might be.

So basically imagine oogla booglas as some islanders, and they saying, dont touch their eyes(moongla) because touching their eyes can cause their heads to shrink and give them basically a headache which is a messed up situation for them, or as they say, a toongla situation.

Also u mentioned 4th dimension, this another thing I dont understand, I have watched few videos and explanations but still haven't been able to understand it, but those explaining seemed to have gotten it, also u mentioned ai, this another field im interested in too. I feel ai is the next big thing, kinda like smartphones led light the internet etc. And each day its seeming to be going in that direction, I feel it has great potential and those who can get in early may benefit greatly from it. But since I'm not a coder, I'm unable to get into It too much, nor do I have the money to hire people and try and execute some ideas. As for many things, we can already assume It will highly likely be used for evil but likewise it has the potential for good in the other side as well. Maybe a team of good intended ai guys can come together and make something for humanity, that has an everlasting positive effect.


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jbewd8s wrote

> I feel ai is the next big thing, kinda like smartphones led light the internet etc. And each day its seeming to be going in that direction, I feel it has great potential and those who can get in early may benefit greatly from it. But since I'm not a coder, I'm unable to get into It too much, nor do I have the money to hire people and try and execute some ideas.

You don't need to code. There are solutions out there that you can just copy and tweak prompts to take advantage of.

He's a good start;

And you can just click the "Free" option if you are on a budget. ;-)


96_doomer t1_jbowrc7 wrote

Hmmm. So this seem to be some site which has a collection of some of the ai tech available now. I guess checking the free box, limits my options By a lot, but interesting find. I don't think I would have stumbled upon this, as It kinda looks like its still in it early stages. Thanks.


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jbezdca wrote

4th time is the charm?

When I say the "4th dimension" I'm referring to time. X, Y and Z let you know where something is -- but, since everything is moving at all times relative to something else, you can't really know a location without factoring for Time.

Anyway, as simple as I can put it; the "time gradient" results in gravity because things closest to a mass are slowed more than the parts of them (and space) that are further away from mass. If it overcomes their movement (inertia), they will get closer together.


Greene_Mr t1_japf2nx wrote

Horatio Alger died destitute.


meat-juice OP t1_jarf5h9 wrote

Molesting boys in his church and fleeing town probably contributed to that as well...


McCoovy t1_japstxp wrote

So did mozart. You can take my copy of ragged dick from my cold dead hands.


Greene_Mr t1_japt2h5 wrote

Don'cha just hate it when ya've got a ragged penis?


sagevallant t1_japbw5o wrote

Nah, pretty sure most of the people who say it have no idea what it actually means.


boyyouguysaredumb t1_jaq8q5g wrote

No they just don’t know the origin of the phrase

It’s like how people think trickle down economics was a term Reagan invented. It was a term his opponents branded his stupid plans, it was never the name of the actual policy- it was always just a term to make fun of it.


SCWarriors44 t1_jaoutdo wrote

How is it cruel when it’s your responsibility to take care of yourself, provide for yourself, and excel your own career, as well as not rely on others to help you? If you are in a shitty situation it is nobody’s fault but your own so why expect or rely on others to get you out of it? Pick yourself up and do better. It’s not cruel. It’s powerful, self motivating, and shows self responsibility and courage. It’s honest.


meat-juice OP t1_jaowz9o wrote

So getting sick and going bankrupt is your own fault? Being laid off because your management made poor decisions is your own fault? It's the fault of those who experience generational racial barriers? Inflation is your own fault? Greedy landlords are your own fault? I could keep typing for a while...

We all benefit from society's structure... the idea of a self-made person is a myth.


SCWarriors44 t1_japtwc9 wrote

What you do in response to all those shitty things is your responsibility and yours only. You don’t sit and whine. You don’t cry. You don’t complain. You pull yourself up and make that shitty situation better for yourself and those you love. Lost your job? Go get a new one or start your own. Got sick? Fight through it and get better, it sucks but complaining or relying on others ain’t getting you anywhere. Generational racial barriers or whatever nonsense, the second you stand up for yourself and fight for yourself, you’ll find that none of that actually exists or matters.

Not a single soul besides leaches benefit from society. The fact that you don’t even know any self made men or women is really sad to me, because that’s exactly what society needs more of.


Lateralis85 t1_jaqq4zp wrote

>Not a single soul besides leaches benefit from society.

That is a staggering level of ignorance.


SCWarriors44 t1_jav4n64 wrote

And how is it wrong? People who want to live in a society clearly want to have an easier life full of pleasures, where the responsibility of themselves is lessened to the point where they don’t have to worry. Where they could purely live off the actions of others with no other positive input. A leach. Tell me how that’s wrong.

I’ve lived in the country have my life and the city half my life. The words I’d use to describe those in the country is giving, hard working, friendly, and family. Those in the city would be selfish, greedy, ignorant, and lazy. And I’m really not trying to be rude, just saying how I saw it. Of course not everyone fit that bill but enough did to allow me to generalize. Of course not everyone fit that top paragraph either but most did and the worst of them absolutely did. It was honestly quite sad to see so many people whining about their situations with no passion or want to put forth any effort on their parts to get out of it when they are absolutely capable of doing so, except they believe they can’t because of these self-made limitations. It’s sad man.


WaterChi t1_javupkd wrote

> People who want to live in a society clearly want to have an easier life full of pleasures, where the responsibility of themselves is lessened to the point where they don’t have to worry.

That is a staggering level of ignorance. Humans are social animals. If you're a sociopath, go on your merry way but don't try to poison the rest of us.

> I’ve lived in the country have my life and the city half my life. The words I’d use to describe those in the country is giving, hard working, friendly, and family. Those in the city would be selfish, greedy, ignorant, and lazy.

Then explain why almost all the wealth generated in the US is generated in cities.... on a per capita basis. Explain why rural areas are wastelands while cities continue to grow and thrive. Reality disagrees with you.


Narrow_Assumption_25 t1_jaqyysi wrote

This is absolute insanity. The device you typed your rant on is the result of billions of people coalescing into societies across human history, being able to support each other and focus on progress, rather than worrying whether they can hunt or gather food to eat that day.


SCWarriors44 t1_jav5hgj wrote

Right…the device I’m typing on was created by people who didn’t want to accept shitty situations so they made a better one. I mean most our tech giants today literally started out in garages with nothing. They pulled themselves up and made things better for everyone while everyone else was complaining, doing nothing, or didn’t even know any better to know things weren’t as good as they could be.

I don’t know maybe you’re a marvel fan. Literally every hero story in the MCU has been someone being in a shitty situation and then pulling themselves up by the bootstraps to get out of it. They made things better for themselves and then eventually for others. That’s why they’re hero’s.


TheGillos t1_jaqbvnf wrote

I'm a self made leach because I don't respect society and I'm not materialistic enough to want much from life. I do as little as I possibly can do. I have a lot of freedom because I just don't give shit about working hard or contributing or much of anything else. I've grown to hate most people and/or see them as sucker slaves. I love my friends and family, I'd do anything to help them short of participating in this gruesome soul sucking mockery of life called "modern society".


HappyLittleRadishes t1_japljj7 wrote

> pick yourself up

My. Guy.

It's like you missed the entire point of this thread.

This is why people think conservatives are dim.


SCWarriors44 t1_japuooq wrote

Then be so kind to explain what exactly I missed. Because I don’t see any scenario in which picking yourself up in any shitty situation isn’t the one thing that will help you move forward more than any other.


96_doomer t1_jaq6nj1 wrote

I think understand ur and their perspectives.

I'll try to explain in simple way, cause else it might be too long explanation.

I see it as two modes, one is ur mode, or as I call it, the win mode or like feeling motivated, but lasting longer than just very short bursts. In the win mode, I think like u, there is no such thing as luck, we take action, we get results, don't wait for help, we do ourselves etc. In this mode, we believe and feel we can achieve almost anything, u face obstacle, u try to find solution for it. This mode usually feels real good and happy, and Ur mind feels good and u can see clearly. If I haven't experienced this mode myself, whatever u said would have made almost no sense to me because it sounds foreign.

Then there is the other mode, I call it the doomer mode, or u can call it depression ,mental illness whatever u want. This seems to be the default and longer lasting mode than win mode, which is usually temporary.

I'm not sure if u have ever experienced it, but it ain't a good feeling. U don't have much hope or hope at all. U can't think clearly, its kinda like trying to drive in foggy road. U don't believe u can Change anything, like genuinely we don't think we can do much, as it all feels like external factors affecting us. Think of a really low moment in ur life, like where u felt u couldn't do anything. Its kinda something like that maybe, but slightly less but on a usually constant feel like cruise control. U attempt to do something, and even one tiny set back, can make u feel even more bad and very overwhelming. In this mode, it ain't like the win mode at all, like even though I know what win mode feels like, when u reach the doomer mode, u feel like there no hope at all again, even though u experienced win mode before. U feel like u will fail, u only see chances to fail more, imagine walking a rope on a high place, if u fall u die, but now kinda apply it for general life plan or some things. Maybe a bit exaggerated but to help get u the idea, here u can't think of failure, because it can feel like a very big failure, and not something that u can handle, like how it would be in win mode.

I'm not sure how I can explain doomer mode to someone who may have not experienced it, or only for short while. But let's say, imagine u had a nasty fight with a loved one. And they somehow immediately passed away. Now u have deep regret that they passed away in such a bad time when u both were angry at each other and u couldn't ask for their forgiveness. Like truly take yourself to that moment. Ur very sad, u wanna apologize to them one last time but u literally can't, there's is literally nothing u can do, they are gone permanently. Now imagine at that time someone comes and tells u, yo, don't be such a downer, this happens, u gotta just move on, or something like, u can bring them back to life man, its easy, just do some science whatever and they will be back to life And just apologize, easy peasy, ur just being a wimp. I know I'm using some absurd example, but to a a person in that stage, whatever u say, even though with good intent, may sound like nonsense talks when they literally see no hope of realistically bringing them back to life and apologizing, to them, it sounds like ur just downplaying their troubles and just telling to get on with it, which can be hard to imagine in that stage. But from the win mode guys perspective, they are also imagining the other person to be in win mode, and the only way a win mode sitting still is because he is choosing it as choice, so in win mode. We feel others are not doing something because they lazy and just don't wanna take action. So this conflict of communication arises as both people are kinda like in different modes and they assume the other person Also in their own mode, because that's what they feel is what everyone maybe feeling like. I guess a very dumb example might be. There are two blind people. One strong and big, other thin and weak. Strong blind says, hey man, just want food, just lift this rock, and weak guy can't lift rock and strong guy gets angry at weak guy. Cause he can't see weak guy is weak cause he blind. Then they reach an obstacle, then somehow thin weak guy find a gap and reach other side. Strong big guy tries but can't, cause he too big, then weak guy gets angry at big guy, for not just fitting through the gap cause its easy, but he can't see the guy is big cause he blind.

I don't know if I explained it properly, but I hope u get it.


SCWarriors44 t1_jav3tx8 wrote

Thanks for the long explanation. You’re very right that I believe there is a severe misunderstanding going on here. Picking yourself up by your bootstraps said to anyone regardless of how they view things isn’t ever meant to be cruel or an insult or insensitive to their situation (to anyone reading this who opposes the saying). As for your scenario with the dead wife, that’s one situation for example you probably wouldn’t even say something like that but if you did the intent would be out of care, like hey pick yourself up bud, I know it sucks and it’ll never get better but let’s get your mind on something else, find a way to move on. Like let’s be tough but in a good way.

But then again that phrase would hardly ever be used in that scenario, it’s really only ever meant to be motivating as you said or as you said again as a response to noticing someone isn’t doing enough for themselves, so then it’s more like hey wake up, trying to make them realize that by living in that doomer mindset isn’t going to fix anything. You gotta take action. I think of it also as a teach a man to fish vs giving him fish kind of thing. I think you should teach a man to fish whereas I see the other side just complaining that they don’t like the fish or that there isn’t enough fish or what have you. And as I said before I only want to help those who want to help themselves. If you don’t want to pick yourself up then there is no use in me helping you, you’ll be right back in the same spot again then kind of thing. That tells me you don’t want to grow or improve then. But hey again thanks for the long, honest, and respectful response unlike some of the others.


96_doomer t1_jb0xxew wrote

>But hey again thanks for the long, honest, and respectful response unlike some of the others.

Ur welcome. Dont take that in a wrong way, like I said two perspectives, its almost as if both people are living in different worlds, so even though u may have intended it as helpful advice, from their perspective, it can be seen as cold statement without empathy, although that's not u are trying to do at all. But likewise, from your POV, it may feel like they are just lazy or dont want to to face their problems but like I mentioned, there could be deep rooted problems, which could make them feel like hopeless, like truly hopeless, u genuinely don't think u maybe able to get out of that situation even though that may not be true,but that's what it might feel like to them, and that's when, external advice may feel cold to them, while to u it may feel like they dont want to help themselves. Which might not be the case.because they can't see that perspective. So overall basically like a miscommunication AFAIK.


WaterChi t1_jaov0fx wrote

Name one thing you are fully responsible for. That only you did.


SCWarriors44 t1_japv1c7 wrote

Literally everything in my life. I am responsible for every single one of my actions and reactions and only me. Every choice I make is mine and everything I do is because I wanted it done. It’s a frighteningly scary world for you if you can’t make any decisions yourself or take responsibility for any of your actions.


WaterChi t1_jaqujtx wrote

So you educated yourself. Bought every piece of clothing you ever wore. Built the car you drive, the roads you use, the refrigerator that holds your food? You built and stocked the grocery store where you get your food? You created the company your work for and educated all of the people to who make sure you have what you need to do your job? You designed and built both the device you are using right now to read this and the entire network infrastructure between there and the reddit servers?

Every single thing you have or have done in your life is the result of tens to tens of thousands of people helping you. Providing for you. You stand on the shoulders of 10000 years of human progress. You have done NOTHING on your own. Not one single thing, including the first breath you took, was done only by you. EVERYTHING is a result of someone else helping you in one way or another.

The idea of "only I'm responsible for myself and I'm not responsible for anyone else" is not only the most heinous lie the right tells, it's the most anti-Christian, anti-family, anti-community, anti-human piece of garbage propaganda humanity has every created. Like it or not, you are 100% dependent on everyone else around you and they are dependent on you.


SCWarriors44 t1_jav4ww0 wrote

Read my damn comment again and just try to understand at least one of the sentences. Actions. I am responsible for my actions. Nowhere did I ever claim whatever junk you just spewed out. Do better.


WaterChi t1_javudyx wrote

Then read my damn comment again and answer the question asked, not spout some right wing fever dream that's apparently irrelevant to the discussion.


SCWarriors44 t1_jax7cpl wrote

I answered your comment exactly. And your most recent one is nonsense that has nothing to do with what I said. Quite literally what you wrote was incredibly irrelevant to the conversation, not my response.


GrowFreeFood t1_japhy0c wrote

Except there are people who unfairly hoard all the resources just for the joy of watching other fight for scraps. Its literally sadistic


SCWarriors44 t1_japuidw wrote

So what? That exists. Most of us are fighting for scraps. To you does that mean we just give up? Or rely on others to clean up the mess or make it better? That exact situation is one you pull yourself up and find a way to make it better for you and your loved ones. You can blame those people all day but it ain’t gonna get you anywhere and ain’t gonna fix anything. So stand up and push through. That’s why you only help others who want to help themselves.


GrowFreeFood t1_jaq0utx wrote

Looking down on people does not raise you up. I will pull up every single person I can until I die.


cheezywhywhy t1_japwvwt wrote

MLK said “it is cruel to tell a bootless man to pull himself up by his bootstraps.”


AtebYngNghymraeg t1_janz5kf wrote

Which is also where we get the idea of "booting" a computer.


byllz t1_jape02i wrote

And it makes sense. The operating system is a program. For it to run, like any program, it needs to be read from disk, placed into memory, and then executed. "What is the problem?" You may ask. "Computers run programs all the time." The problem is that the procedure to read the disk, load a program into memory, and execute it is part of the operating system. If the operating system isn't running yet, how is it going to get the operating system running? It seems as impossible as pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.


MEaster t1_jarrb8q wrote

For those wondering how this is solved, a simplified explanation is that when the processor leaves its reset state, it starts executing from a fixed address in memory, which is connected to a permanent storage instead of RAM, and which holds a small program that then loads more complex software off a disc.


Gagarin1961 t1_jar2jwn wrote

Yes so the phrase originated as an example of an “Impossible task,” but it’s since become a term for a self starting process.

The linked article reads:

>In general, bootstrapping usually refers to a self-starting process that is supposed to continue or grow without external input.

Computer engineers aren’t referring to an impossible task, just a self starting one. As much as Reddit loves the original usage, the the phrase “pull oneself up by their bootstraps” today means to use what you have to get ahead instead of relying on outside help.


Raaka-Kake t1_jao12dk wrote

Rudolf Erich Raspe wrote Baron Munchausen in 1785, which includes the said act.


meat-juice OP t1_jao1tch wrote

Yes, pulling himself and his horse out of the swap by his pigtail haha.


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jao5p2y wrote

And, it's featured in the movie of the same name by Terry Gilliam.

TIL: Baron von Munchausen was an actual story before the movie.


GozerDGozerian t1_japmxt6 wrote

TIL Terry Gilliam has a movie about Baron Avon Munchausen! Putting that one in the queue!


CartmansEvilTwin t1_japyw1j wrote

And Münchhausen Syndrome is an actual mental illness. It's basically people compulsively lying about almost anything.


Provokateur t1_jaqbc1e wrote

Specifically it's lying about having an illness in order to get attention.

Almost no compulsive lying qualifies.


TheCloudFestival t1_jao5kot wrote

Yes, and no.

The 'boot straps' story itself is a reworking of a passage from 'Baron Munchausen's Narrative of His Marvellous Travels and Campaigns in Russia', a 1785 novel written by Rudolf Erich Raspe, and based on the real Prussian baron Hieronymus Karl Friedrich, Freiherr von Münchhausen, a war general renowned for telling completely unbelievable but very entertaining tall tales.

At one point during the book, Baron Munchausen accidentally rides his horse into a swamp, becoming trapped, with him and his steed sinking fast.

With no obvious way out, and everything he could grab out of reach, Munchausen somehow manages to lift himself and his horse out of the swamp by grabbing his own ponytail and pulling himself and his horse up and out of the mire.

This is why in philosophy, all epistemologies (systems of thinking) are said to fall into the Munchausen Trilemma, in which once one reasons to their most basic components, said epistemologies ultimately support themselves by themselves in one of three ways.


GozerDGozerian t1_japn51u wrote

>Munchausen Trilemma

Aaaaand down the rabbit hole I go! Thanks!


IveGotDMunchies t1_jaohpf2 wrote

"If life gives you lemons turn it into lemonade"

Lemons are not natural but a product of hybrid breeding by humans


Fake_William_Shatner t1_jao4zvx wrote

Well, back in those days we had a thing called "common sense." Now, that fell outta style with the newfangled age of Whippersnappers.

Today, we find that a lot of the things we learned not to trust, are now things people have fallen for hook, line and sinker.

In addition, and in conclusion, the straps on boots these days are of inferior quality and they just can't be trusted for the task of self levitation even if you had the grip strength.


kokopilau t1_jao0sqv wrote

The meaning of the idiom changed to almost the opposite. Concrete thinking evolving language.


Eliseo120 t1_japzre2 wrote

… no shit. You never figured it out that you can’t literally pick yourself up by pulling on your shoes?


DabbinOnDemGoy t1_jare01d wrote

That's the point; people do use "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" as a different way of meaning 'work harder'. I'd argue most people don't understand what the phrase actually means, and have heard/used it wrong.


Card_Zero t1_jaq383d wrote

If you wondered why they were saying that about Mr. Murphee: he had designed a perpetual motion machine.


Mammoth-Mud-9609 t1_jaqq20c wrote

Munchhausen's trilemma (Munchausen's) says that proving something is true normally involves circular reasoning, regressive argument or an axiomatic argument each of these methods have problems but an axiomatic argument can prove a truth if you can agree upon a precept or principle of an underlying statement.


halstead987 t1_jap9r97 wrote

Reading this made me think of Cumberland Blues from Workingmans Dead


[deleted] t1_jarcd1h wrote

And "Die With Your Boots On" is a song by iron Maiden, released in 1983 on their "Piece of Mind" Album.


davogrademe t1_jaq8ocp wrote

I have pulled my self up from being prone by pulling my shoe laces. I guess it just requires thinking outside the box.


meat-juice OP t1_jarfcfn wrote

Perhaps... but try jumping over a river that way... ;- )


[deleted] t1_jaoteij wrote



kingsumo_1 t1_jap2zl3 wrote

That's the dark humor in it. Republican's love to use it as an excuse to not help people in need. But at the end of the day it is an impossible task, and one they almost certainly were never in a situation that would require it. Or, for those that were poor growing up, relied on the same social safety nets that they want to gut.


meat-juice OP t1_jaoupta wrote

Feels like a "Let them eat cake" moment to me now...


g_r_a_e t1_japud0e wrote

A photon might disagree


Brock_Way t1_jaov45d wrote

Even earlier than that the expression was used to indicate effort necessary to get something done. It was equivalent to today's expression "put your work boots on."

The meaning of the phrase has been changed by those who want the things done for them so they wouldn't have to put their work boots on, and who used the excuse that the task was impossible from the start to absolve them from not even bothering to try.