Submitted by meat-juice t3_11gbneo in todayilearned
Reply to comment by WaterChi in TIL "to pull oneself up by one's bootstraps" is an example of an impossible task. The idiom dates at least to 1834, from the Workingman's Advocate: "It is conjectured that Mr. Murphee will now be enabled to hand himself over the Cumberland river or a barn yard fence by the straps of his boots. by meat-juice
How is it cruel when it’s your responsibility to take care of yourself, provide for yourself, and excel your own career, as well as not rely on others to help you? If you are in a shitty situation it is nobody’s fault but your own so why expect or rely on others to get you out of it? Pick yourself up and do better. It’s not cruel. It’s powerful, self motivating, and shows self responsibility and courage. It’s honest.
So getting sick and going bankrupt is your own fault? Being laid off because your management made poor decisions is your own fault? It's the fault of those who experience generational racial barriers? Inflation is your own fault? Greedy landlords are your own fault? I could keep typing for a while...
We all benefit from society's structure... the idea of a self-made person is a myth.
What you do in response to all those shitty things is your responsibility and yours only. You don’t sit and whine. You don’t cry. You don’t complain. You pull yourself up and make that shitty situation better for yourself and those you love. Lost your job? Go get a new one or start your own. Got sick? Fight through it and get better, it sucks but complaining or relying on others ain’t getting you anywhere. Generational racial barriers or whatever nonsense, the second you stand up for yourself and fight for yourself, you’ll find that none of that actually exists or matters.
Not a single soul besides leaches benefit from society. The fact that you don’t even know any self made men or women is really sad to me, because that’s exactly what society needs more of.
>Not a single soul besides leaches benefit from society.
That is a staggering level of ignorance.
And how is it wrong? People who want to live in a society clearly want to have an easier life full of pleasures, where the responsibility of themselves is lessened to the point where they don’t have to worry. Where they could purely live off the actions of others with no other positive input. A leach. Tell me how that’s wrong.
I’ve lived in the country have my life and the city half my life. The words I’d use to describe those in the country is giving, hard working, friendly, and family. Those in the city would be selfish, greedy, ignorant, and lazy. And I’m really not trying to be rude, just saying how I saw it. Of course not everyone fit that bill but enough did to allow me to generalize. Of course not everyone fit that top paragraph either but most did and the worst of them absolutely did. It was honestly quite sad to see so many people whining about their situations with no passion or want to put forth any effort on their parts to get out of it when they are absolutely capable of doing so, except they believe they can’t because of these self-made limitations. It’s sad man.
> People who want to live in a society clearly want to have an easier life full of pleasures, where the responsibility of themselves is lessened to the point where they don’t have to worry.
That is a staggering level of ignorance. Humans are social animals. If you're a sociopath, go on your merry way but don't try to poison the rest of us.
> I’ve lived in the country have my life and the city half my life. The words I’d use to describe those in the country is giving, hard working, friendly, and family. Those in the city would be selfish, greedy, ignorant, and lazy.
Then explain why almost all the wealth generated in the US is generated in cities.... on a per capita basis. Explain why rural areas are wastelands while cities continue to grow and thrive. Reality disagrees with you.
This is absolute insanity. The device you typed your rant on is the result of billions of people coalescing into societies across human history, being able to support each other and focus on progress, rather than worrying whether they can hunt or gather food to eat that day.
Right…the device I’m typing on was created by people who didn’t want to accept shitty situations so they made a better one. I mean most our tech giants today literally started out in garages with nothing. They pulled themselves up and made things better for everyone while everyone else was complaining, doing nothing, or didn’t even know any better to know things weren’t as good as they could be.
I don’t know maybe you’re a marvel fan. Literally every hero story in the MCU has been someone being in a shitty situation and then pulling themselves up by the bootstraps to get out of it. They made things better for themselves and then eventually for others. That’s why they’re hero’s.
I'm a self made leach because I don't respect society and I'm not materialistic enough to want much from life. I do as little as I possibly can do. I have a lot of freedom because I just don't give shit about working hard or contributing or much of anything else. I've grown to hate most people and/or see them as sucker slaves. I love my friends and family, I'd do anything to help them short of participating in this gruesome soul sucking mockery of life called "modern society".
> pick yourself up
My. Guy.
It's like you missed the entire point of this thread.
This is why people think conservatives are dim.
Then be so kind to explain what exactly I missed. Because I don’t see any scenario in which picking yourself up in any shitty situation isn’t the one thing that will help you move forward more than any other.
I think understand ur and their perspectives.
I'll try to explain in simple way, cause else it might be too long explanation.
I see it as two modes, one is ur mode, or as I call it, the win mode or like feeling motivated, but lasting longer than just very short bursts. In the win mode, I think like u, there is no such thing as luck, we take action, we get results, don't wait for help, we do ourselves etc. In this mode, we believe and feel we can achieve almost anything, u face obstacle, u try to find solution for it. This mode usually feels real good and happy, and Ur mind feels good and u can see clearly. If I haven't experienced this mode myself, whatever u said would have made almost no sense to me because it sounds foreign.
Then there is the other mode, I call it the doomer mode, or u can call it depression ,mental illness whatever u want. This seems to be the default and longer lasting mode than win mode, which is usually temporary.
I'm not sure if u have ever experienced it, but it ain't a good feeling. U don't have much hope or hope at all. U can't think clearly, its kinda like trying to drive in foggy road. U don't believe u can Change anything, like genuinely we don't think we can do much, as it all feels like external factors affecting us. Think of a really low moment in ur life, like where u felt u couldn't do anything. Its kinda something like that maybe, but slightly less but on a usually constant feel like cruise control. U attempt to do something, and even one tiny set back, can make u feel even more bad and very overwhelming. In this mode, it ain't like the win mode at all, like even though I know what win mode feels like, when u reach the doomer mode, u feel like there no hope at all again, even though u experienced win mode before. U feel like u will fail, u only see chances to fail more, imagine walking a rope on a high place, if u fall u die, but now kinda apply it for general life plan or some things. Maybe a bit exaggerated but to help get u the idea, here u can't think of failure, because it can feel like a very big failure, and not something that u can handle, like how it would be in win mode.
I'm not sure how I can explain doomer mode to someone who may have not experienced it, or only for short while. But let's say, imagine u had a nasty fight with a loved one. And they somehow immediately passed away. Now u have deep regret that they passed away in such a bad time when u both were angry at each other and u couldn't ask for their forgiveness. Like truly take yourself to that moment. Ur very sad, u wanna apologize to them one last time but u literally can't, there's is literally nothing u can do, they are gone permanently. Now imagine at that time someone comes and tells u, yo, don't be such a downer, this happens, u gotta just move on, or something like, u can bring them back to life man, its easy, just do some science whatever and they will be back to life And just apologize, easy peasy, ur just being a wimp. I know I'm using some absurd example, but to a a person in that stage, whatever u say, even though with good intent, may sound like nonsense talks when they literally see no hope of realistically bringing them back to life and apologizing, to them, it sounds like ur just downplaying their troubles and just telling to get on with it, which can be hard to imagine in that stage. But from the win mode guys perspective, they are also imagining the other person to be in win mode, and the only way a win mode sitting still is because he is choosing it as choice, so in win mode. We feel others are not doing something because they lazy and just don't wanna take action. So this conflict of communication arises as both people are kinda like in different modes and they assume the other person Also in their own mode, because that's what they feel is what everyone maybe feeling like. I guess a very dumb example might be. There are two blind people. One strong and big, other thin and weak. Strong blind says, hey man, just want food, just lift this rock, and weak guy can't lift rock and strong guy gets angry at weak guy. Cause he can't see weak guy is weak cause he blind. Then they reach an obstacle, then somehow thin weak guy find a gap and reach other side. Strong big guy tries but can't, cause he too big, then weak guy gets angry at big guy, for not just fitting through the gap cause its easy, but he can't see the guy is big cause he blind.
I don't know if I explained it properly, but I hope u get it.
He wont read it, but I think you did a good job explaining the mindsets.
Thanks
Thanks for the long explanation. You’re very right that I believe there is a severe misunderstanding going on here. Picking yourself up by your bootstraps said to anyone regardless of how they view things isn’t ever meant to be cruel or an insult or insensitive to their situation (to anyone reading this who opposes the saying). As for your scenario with the dead wife, that’s one situation for example you probably wouldn’t even say something like that but if you did the intent would be out of care, like hey pick yourself up bud, I know it sucks and it’ll never get better but let’s get your mind on something else, find a way to move on. Like let’s be tough but in a good way.
But then again that phrase would hardly ever be used in that scenario, it’s really only ever meant to be motivating as you said or as you said again as a response to noticing someone isn’t doing enough for themselves, so then it’s more like hey wake up, trying to make them realize that by living in that doomer mindset isn’t going to fix anything. You gotta take action. I think of it also as a teach a man to fish vs giving him fish kind of thing. I think you should teach a man to fish whereas I see the other side just complaining that they don’t like the fish or that there isn’t enough fish or what have you. And as I said before I only want to help those who want to help themselves. If you don’t want to pick yourself up then there is no use in me helping you, you’ll be right back in the same spot again then kind of thing. That tells me you don’t want to grow or improve then. But hey again thanks for the long, honest, and respectful response unlike some of the others.
>But hey again thanks for the long, honest, and respectful response unlike some of the others.
Ur welcome. Dont take that in a wrong way, like I said two perspectives, its almost as if both people are living in different worlds, so even though u may have intended it as helpful advice, from their perspective, it can be seen as cold statement without empathy, although that's not u are trying to do at all. But likewise, from your POV, it may feel like they are just lazy or dont want to to face their problems but like I mentioned, there could be deep rooted problems, which could make them feel like hopeless, like truly hopeless, u genuinely don't think u maybe able to get out of that situation even though that may not be true,but that's what it might feel like to them, and that's when, external advice may feel cold to them, while to u it may feel like they dont want to help themselves. Which might not be the case.because they can't see that perspective. So overall basically like a miscommunication AFAIK.
Name one thing you are fully responsible for. That only you did.
Literally everything in my life. I am responsible for every single one of my actions and reactions and only me. Every choice I make is mine and everything I do is because I wanted it done. It’s a frighteningly scary world for you if you can’t make any decisions yourself or take responsibility for any of your actions.
You did not actually name one thing.
So you educated yourself. Bought every piece of clothing you ever wore. Built the car you drive, the roads you use, the refrigerator that holds your food? You built and stocked the grocery store where you get your food? You created the company your work for and educated all of the people to who make sure you have what you need to do your job? You designed and built both the device you are using right now to read this and the entire network infrastructure between there and the reddit servers?
Every single thing you have or have done in your life is the result of tens to tens of thousands of people helping you. Providing for you. You stand on the shoulders of 10000 years of human progress. You have done NOTHING on your own. Not one single thing, including the first breath you took, was done only by you. EVERYTHING is a result of someone else helping you in one way or another.
The idea of "only I'm responsible for myself and I'm not responsible for anyone else" is not only the most heinous lie the right tells, it's the most anti-Christian, anti-family, anti-community, anti-human piece of garbage propaganda humanity has every created. Like it or not, you are 100% dependent on everyone else around you and they are dependent on you.
Read my damn comment again and just try to understand at least one of the sentences. Actions. I am responsible for my actions. Nowhere did I ever claim whatever junk you just spewed out. Do better.
Then read my damn comment again and answer the question asked, not spout some right wing fever dream that's apparently irrelevant to the discussion.
I answered your comment exactly. And your most recent one is nonsense that has nothing to do with what I said. Quite literally what you wrote was incredibly irrelevant to the conversation, not my response.
Except there are people who unfairly hoard all the resources just for the joy of watching other fight for scraps. Its literally sadistic
So what? That exists. Most of us are fighting for scraps. To you does that mean we just give up? Or rely on others to clean up the mess or make it better? That exact situation is one you pull yourself up and find a way to make it better for you and your loved ones. You can blame those people all day but it ain’t gonna get you anywhere and ain’t gonna fix anything. So stand up and push through. That’s why you only help others who want to help themselves.
Looking down on people does not raise you up. I will pull up every single person I can until I die.
MLK said “it is cruel to tell a bootless man to pull himself up by his bootstraps.”
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments