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96_doomer t1_jaq6nj1 wrote

Reply to comment by SCWarriors44 in TIL "to pull oneself up by one's bootstraps" is an example of an impossible task. The idiom dates at least to 1834, from the Workingman's Advocate: "It is conjectured that Mr. Murphee will now be enabled to hand himself over the Cumberland river or a barn yard fence by the straps of his boots. by meat-juice

I think understand ur and their perspectives.

I'll try to explain in simple way, cause else it might be too long explanation.

I see it as two modes, one is ur mode, or as I call it, the win mode or like feeling motivated, but lasting longer than just very short bursts. In the win mode, I think like u, there is no such thing as luck, we take action, we get results, don't wait for help, we do ourselves etc. In this mode, we believe and feel we can achieve almost anything, u face obstacle, u try to find solution for it. This mode usually feels real good and happy, and Ur mind feels good and u can see clearly. If I haven't experienced this mode myself, whatever u said would have made almost no sense to me because it sounds foreign.

Then there is the other mode, I call it the doomer mode, or u can call it depression ,mental illness whatever u want. This seems to be the default and longer lasting mode than win mode, which is usually temporary.

I'm not sure if u have ever experienced it, but it ain't a good feeling. U don't have much hope or hope at all. U can't think clearly, its kinda like trying to drive in foggy road. U don't believe u can Change anything, like genuinely we don't think we can do much, as it all feels like external factors affecting us. Think of a really low moment in ur life, like where u felt u couldn't do anything. Its kinda something like that maybe, but slightly less but on a usually constant feel like cruise control. U attempt to do something, and even one tiny set back, can make u feel even more bad and very overwhelming. In this mode, it ain't like the win mode at all, like even though I know what win mode feels like, when u reach the doomer mode, u feel like there no hope at all again, even though u experienced win mode before. U feel like u will fail, u only see chances to fail more, imagine walking a rope on a high place, if u fall u die, but now kinda apply it for general life plan or some things. Maybe a bit exaggerated but to help get u the idea, here u can't think of failure, because it can feel like a very big failure, and not something that u can handle, like how it would be in win mode.

I'm not sure how I can explain doomer mode to someone who may have not experienced it, or only for short while. But let's say, imagine u had a nasty fight with a loved one. And they somehow immediately passed away. Now u have deep regret that they passed away in such a bad time when u both were angry at each other and u couldn't ask for their forgiveness. Like truly take yourself to that moment. Ur very sad, u wanna apologize to them one last time but u literally can't, there's is literally nothing u can do, they are gone permanently. Now imagine at that time someone comes and tells u, yo, don't be such a downer, this happens, u gotta just move on, or something like, u can bring them back to life man, its easy, just do some science whatever and they will be back to life And just apologize, easy peasy, ur just being a wimp. I know I'm using some absurd example, but to a a person in that stage, whatever u say, even though with good intent, may sound like nonsense talks when they literally see no hope of realistically bringing them back to life and apologizing, to them, it sounds like ur just downplaying their troubles and just telling to get on with it, which can be hard to imagine in that stage. But from the win mode guys perspective, they are also imagining the other person to be in win mode, and the only way a win mode sitting still is because he is choosing it as choice, so in win mode. We feel others are not doing something because they lazy and just don't wanna take action. So this conflict of communication arises as both people are kinda like in different modes and they assume the other person Also in their own mode, because that's what they feel is what everyone maybe feeling like. I guess a very dumb example might be. There are two blind people. One strong and big, other thin and weak. Strong blind says, hey man, just want food, just lift this rock, and weak guy can't lift rock and strong guy gets angry at weak guy. Cause he can't see weak guy is weak cause he blind. Then they reach an obstacle, then somehow thin weak guy find a gap and reach other side. Strong big guy tries but can't, cause he too big, then weak guy gets angry at big guy, for not just fitting through the gap cause its easy, but he can't see the guy is big cause he blind.

I don't know if I explained it properly, but I hope u get it.

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SCWarriors44 t1_jav3tx8 wrote

Thanks for the long explanation. You’re very right that I believe there is a severe misunderstanding going on here. Picking yourself up by your bootstraps said to anyone regardless of how they view things isn’t ever meant to be cruel or an insult or insensitive to their situation (to anyone reading this who opposes the saying). As for your scenario with the dead wife, that’s one situation for example you probably wouldn’t even say something like that but if you did the intent would be out of care, like hey pick yourself up bud, I know it sucks and it’ll never get better but let’s get your mind on something else, find a way to move on. Like let’s be tough but in a good way.

But then again that phrase would hardly ever be used in that scenario, it’s really only ever meant to be motivating as you said or as you said again as a response to noticing someone isn’t doing enough for themselves, so then it’s more like hey wake up, trying to make them realize that by living in that doomer mindset isn’t going to fix anything. You gotta take action. I think of it also as a teach a man to fish vs giving him fish kind of thing. I think you should teach a man to fish whereas I see the other side just complaining that they don’t like the fish or that there isn’t enough fish or what have you. And as I said before I only want to help those who want to help themselves. If you don’t want to pick yourself up then there is no use in me helping you, you’ll be right back in the same spot again then kind of thing. That tells me you don’t want to grow or improve then. But hey again thanks for the long, honest, and respectful response unlike some of the others.

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96_doomer t1_jb0xxew wrote

>But hey again thanks for the long, honest, and respectful response unlike some of the others.

Ur welcome. Dont take that in a wrong way, like I said two perspectives, its almost as if both people are living in different worlds, so even though u may have intended it as helpful advice, from their perspective, it can be seen as cold statement without empathy, although that's not u are trying to do at all. But likewise, from your POV, it may feel like they are just lazy or dont want to to face their problems but like I mentioned, there could be deep rooted problems, which could make them feel like hopeless, like truly hopeless, u genuinely don't think u maybe able to get out of that situation even though that may not be true,but that's what it might feel like to them, and that's when, external advice may feel cold to them, while to u it may feel like they dont want to help themselves. Which might not be the case.because they can't see that perspective. So overall basically like a miscommunication AFAIK.

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