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cruel_delusion t1_jbk3tnr wrote

>It is named after Austrian architect Victor Gruen, who disapproved of such manipulative techniques.

Imagine having something you hated named after you.


OSCgal t1_jbliiid wrote

Norman doors! They're doors designed in such a way that you can't immediately tell if you need to push or pull. Named after designer Don Norman, who denounced them as bad design.


nectarine_dasheen t1_jbn21cz wrote

Struggled today alternatively pushing and pulling on a huge door to exit a fast food joint and there were a couple people behind me asking, “What is going ON?” Not only was it a Norman door, but it was also kind of wedged closed by insulation and a floor mat. But I couldn’t explain all that and just looked like an idiot shoving and yanking at a door for a quarter of a minute.


_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_jbn3q1i wrote

Fifteen seconds

A quarter of a minute

… you picked the longer option. Haha.


OwlHex4577 t1_jbn5ufq wrote

“ A quarter of a minute” really makes you feel the weight of how long those seconds felt.


LoneRonin t1_jbm5vut wrote

Gruen may finally be getting the last laugh, as dying malls are starting to be rebuilt to be more like his original vision. They're getting converted into schools, health centers and malls in big cities are often becoming mixed use developments with shops on the ground floors and offices, hotels and housing on top.


trufus_for_youfus t1_jblzujp wrote

"I refuse to pay alimony for those bastard developments." - Gruen

What a gangster.


Business-Emu-6923 t1_jbncgqr wrote

I bet there is a long list…

In a related bit of Trivia, the Beastie Boys hated Fight For Your Right to Party.

They wrote it as a parody of “brat rock” which they saw as whiney boys complaining that they want to party but “mom said no”. It was their biggest hit, and the song they will be remembered for.


joe_ordan t1_jbmtk97 wrote

Damn. Talk about throwing dirt on someone’s name.

It. Ain’t. Right.


Carbon_Rod t1_jbjxulh wrote

Doesn't work with me. I get so exasperated with the inability to do anything quickly that I just give up and never go there. Of course, the fact that the largest nearby mall is 90% women's clothing stores now also helps in avoiding it.


termicky t1_jbk70qi wrote

I can't get where I want and find what I want. This frustration leads me to avoid these traps.


Musicman1972 t1_jbkh2s9 wrote

Same but also they kinda held everyone in their hand until online shopping came along and people realized just how inefficient malls actually were.


matthewrenn t1_jbmj19k wrote

Not to mention EVERYTHING was always top dollar also


PM_ur_boobies_pleez t1_jblacza wrote

It doesn't work with me, either (with casinos). Even drunk as a skunk, I'm like a homing pigeon.


pearlsbeforedogs t1_jbmjubw wrote

Once I've made a couple of rounds walking the place, I'm usually good to go!


peach_dragon t1_jbkhc7i wrote

Same. There is a mall near me that is laid out in a cross, and it’s the only one I will go to because I can remember where things are.


VeryJoyfulHeart59 t1_jblv3j1 wrote

This gives credence to the idea that historically, women are gatherers and men are hunters (but also enjoy exploring).


ZerglingBBQ t1_jbn2znf wrote

Even as a kid back when malls were popular I hated them


Wouldtick t1_jbjwctj wrote

The mall of America does a great job of this. Doesn’t help that you will run into multiple locations of the same store.


Other_Exercise t1_jbkdict wrote

Good luck when you try to meet your friends at the Starbucks, when there are 3 at the same mall.


RedShadow120 t1_jblbqks wrote

MOA is just a ring and the only stores with multiple locations are coffee shops. Camp Snoopy Nickolodeon Universe, however, has winding paths that go nowhere and is 100% this.


Insecurity-Guard t1_jbmdtfk wrote

Pretty sure Spencer’s has two locations.


lacrisse t1_jbmqsxk wrote

And Ragstock


RedShadow120 t1_jbn6isy wrote

I'm going to double-check on my way in tomorrow, but I'm fairly certain those were brief overlaps of location transitions.


RedShadow120 t1_jbn6i9m wrote

I'm going to double-check on my way in tomorrow, but I'm fairly certain those were brief overlaps of location transitions.


golamas1999 t1_jbmwmlz wrote

Mall of America is what a Soviet Parody of American Capitalism would be like.


PoopsieDoodles t1_jbmoteh wrote

Southdale Mall is actually the first mall built by Gruen! Paving the way for the other great Minnesota malls.


Jaksmack t1_jbk3213 wrote

I miss the shopping malls of the 70's & early 80's.. all the indoor plants and water features. Also, I love looking at pics of dead malls.


RockItGuyDC t1_jbkzhw5 wrote

Even into the 90s malls we're popping. Friday night was: go to the mall....and just wander.

Maybe get an Auntie Ann's pretzel, maybe get a new stupid shirt or poster at Spencer's, maybe play laser tag, and maybe see the latest movie. But mostly it was just chilling, running into people you know, and definitely hitting up the arcade.

I was 16 in '98, and the mall was still largely the center of teen socialization at that time.


mistyjeanw t1_jbl243l wrote

I would go to Sbarro's and get either the lasagna or the spaghetti with that huge meatball


Asha_Brea t1_jbjv4g6 wrote

I noticed this when I went to a shopping mall that had two floors, had three escalators that went up and one that went down.


Captain0give t1_jbk627m wrote

That’s gold , it’s like some form of trap.


Asha_Brea t1_jbk8ph7 wrote

The escalator going down was also in the opposite side of the exit.


OldMork t1_jbn3u3z wrote

I even know one that dont have escalator down, only stairs


DblClickyourupvote t1_jblxnis wrote

Sorta reminds me when I’d play roller coaster tycoon and trap the guests in the park lol


Business-Emu-6923 t1_jbncp48 wrote

Its… exactly this. Like, not even just a funny parallel, this is exactly what they are doing.

We are NPCs, trapped in their rollercoaster park.

I used to play Theme Park way back in time. I did the same thing, also made zig zag paths that went past the same burger joint four times so the peeps would eventually buy one. Mmm, Mc Donald’s…


Planarleo127890 t1_jbm7ijx wrote

we had something similar in the west, we have 2 elevators going up, but the going down elevators was on the opposite side of the where the up elevators, of making you go through the FOOD court, because everyone cant help themselves to food once in a while.


Dudley_Do_Wrong t1_jbn8a89 wrote

It’s grocery stores, too. I learned about Rushkoff’s “atmospherics” in Comm studies in college


bikeidaho t1_jbjvujt wrote

Las Vegas has perfected this effect!


ButtersHound t1_jbk26p7 wrote

I think IKEA (1943) and the Swedes got there first.


p4y t1_jbl4317 wrote

Does IKEA layout their stores differently across countries? I keep hearing about people getting lost inside an IKEA and I'm like "How?" Mine has literally one main path to follow, they even put arrows pointing you towards the exit in case you accidentally go in the wrong direction.


PM_ur_boobies_pleez t1_jblagnl wrote

They also have shortcuts if you want to skip things.


JonPButter t1_jbmm74b wrote

And that’s how people get lost


BrandoCalrissian1995 t1_jbms9rt wrote

Oh man too bad there's no arrows you could look at on the ground to figure out which way to go...


Business-Emu-6923 t1_jbncujw wrote

You have to follow the arrow, and look at everything. Shortcuts just lead you further into the store, or back in time, I’m not sure how IKEA works.


littlebubulle t1_jbl7liz wrote

The main path is the longest one.

People looking for specific sections instead of walking the whole are the ones getting lost.


AnthillOmbudsman t1_jbmptur wrote

I always wonder what happens if an IKEA has a fire. It seems there would be hundreds of deaths from people not being able to escape the labyrinth, especially when you mix in smoke and emergency lighting.


OldMork t1_jbn4xtd wrote

and the multistory IKEA typically enter to top floor and exit bottom floor, and the escalator dont work in case of fire so how them troble walking or in wheelchair go down stairs?


Snail_jousting t1_jbnywrl wrote

They have emergency exits all over, they're just behind the fake walls. And since there are employees everywhere, they'll probably help you find the exit. I worry more about fires in Walmart. The employees there won't help with shit.


BrandoCalrissian1995 t1_jbms7w4 wrote

No it's people being fuckin stupid. Like you said there's arrows. If you these people can't even follow fuckin arrows on the ground, the future truly is fucked.


Dorothy-Gale t1_jbly7ap wrote

I recently read a novel about a haunted IKEA (Horrorstör by Grady Hendrix), and it played with this idea, that it's somewhere you're meant to get lost in and can seem to be built not quite right.


Philo_T_Farnsworth t1_jbl7e79 wrote

It really is disorienting every time I travel to Vegas the first day I'm there I literally am just memorizing landmarks to get around the hotels up and down the Strip.


tinymonesters t1_jbkn2g2 wrote

The grocery store i used to use all the time takes advantage of this to an extreme by fully relocating nearly everything about once a year. After the last one I just started going to a different store that keeps shit in the same place because I value my time.


OldMork t1_jbn5jgp wrote

they purposly do this, they want the customers to wonder around because they see things they want to buy, thats why milk always all the way in and candy somewhere on the way out.


[deleted] t1_jbnwpp7 wrote

You get to do this to me. Once. After that, I'm with you and finding a new place to shop that doesnt insult my intelligence.


Jollyjacktar t1_jbkid8b wrote

In San Diego we used to have a mall called Horton Plaza. It was totally confusing. My wife called it Escher Mall after the artist that drew pictures with impossible perspective. I said its marketing tag line should have been “You can’t get there from here.”


StanleyAteMyNewShoes t1_jbqj23t wrote

I lived about 6 blks from Horton Plaza when it opened. Thought then and still think it is one of the ugiest, least functional "buildings" I have ever been in and was truely thought a joke by everyone I ever talked to. After one visit by locals, I think the only people who actually went there were the tourists. I just found out today that it was finally closing. I am surprised it lasted as long as it did. God but it was ugly.


PM_ur_boobies_pleez t1_jblavbk wrote

Horton Plaza was open to the outdoors, which made it pretty easy to not get lost (in my opinion).


Greenfire32 t1_jbkk947 wrote

This is why you need a clear objective whenever you go shopping.

Every time I enter a store, I am looking for something specific. Then I leave with whatever it was. I do not meander, I do not wander. I'm there for a reason. You would be surprised at how much money you save just by having a clearly defined goal.

Impulse buying? Not really a thing for me.

It's also one of the reasons I much prefer online over physical shopping. Usually I can just search the exact thing I'm looking for and then I'm done. But if I do end up having to go to a physical store, I put the blinders on and get out as fast as possible.


MickJof t1_jbkwi2e wrote

Same here. No amount of trickery will make me impulse buy. That shit just doesn't work on me.


alexxerth t1_jblf2mw wrote

I'll be honest, I don't think I've ever gone to the mall because I want something specific.

I'll go because I'm Christmas shopping and want to see what they have, but if I know what I want I just buy it online.


BrandoCalrissian1995 t1_jbmse4p wrote

Right? No one goes to the mall with something super specific in mind. That's what the grocery store is for.


goinmobile2030 t1_jbkvp9k wrote

I'm stuck in one now. Have been here for years. I'm addicted to cinnamon buns. Whenever I try to leave, I end up in John Malkovich's head.


Mumbled_Jumbo t1_jbjycfz wrote

This feeling is exactly why I do not frequent shopping malls and casinos.


tbarr1991 t1_jbk0mjy wrote

I feel the reasin you dont frequent shopping malls is cause theyre dying, closing up and yours not a teenager with nothing to do on yhe weekends.


AnthillOmbudsman t1_jbmqcfh wrote

Vegas casinos don't seem anything like they were in the old days. Back in the 1990s you could definitely get lost in them. It seems a lot of those places have thinned out the machines and made the areas a lot more spacious and bright. I was also surprised they let kids all over the gaming floors now, it was never like that back then.


tuna_safe_dolphin t1_jbkrhh0 wrote

I fight the system by giving all of my money to Jeff Bezos! Take that capitalist pigs!


wdwerker t1_jblzask wrote

Is this related Costco constantly changing the location of items and the grocery store resetting the isles every so often?


Super_Turnip t1_jbkbrz5 wrote

I'm terribly prone to disorientation in malls. I hate them, hate them passionately. Within moments of walking in I'm as lost as a little kid and that triggers a low key anxiety that stays with me until I find the damn exit and make good my escape.


RonSwansonsOldMan t1_jbkuhw8 wrote

Then the problem is, that exit is miles away from where you parked your car, if you can remember at all where you parked it.


AddNamAndHim t1_jbklvku wrote

Someone's been listening to Josh & Chuck.


dudewiththebling t1_jbkrtbv wrote

Imagine being named after something you disapprove of.


sjk8990 t1_jblggr6 wrote

I'm calling my mall Hotel California.


MGC00992 t1_jbnbsuw wrote

This explains why I dislike these kinds of environments and avoid them if at all possible


LakeEarth t1_jbjy9lw wrote

A mall near me is shaped like a honeycomb, it's maddening.


twohundred37 t1_jbkyz84 wrote

There's an awesome episode of 99% Invisible about the Gruen Effect if anyone is interested in learning more about the subject, added bonus if you've never heard Roman Mars' voice. 99pi episode


angeliswastaken_sock t1_jbl7o0h wrote

>It is named after Austrian architect Victor Gruen, who disapproved of such manipulative techniques.

How nice of them......


JonPButter t1_jbmlvdn wrote

I once visited the Mall of America near Minneapolis-St Paul. I came out with my head buzzing and feeling entirely disoriented.


bradswegle t1_jbmz2r3 wrote

Had Gruen perhaps grown this hatred after visiting an IKEA?


crucible t1_jbnrc8e wrote

>The feeling of losing track of time and geography inside a mall is called the Gruen Transfer.

Australia has a panel show about advertising called The Gruen Transfer - like me, most Redditors will probably know it for this advert that one of the teams produced.


NoesHowe2Spel t1_jboy9n3 wrote

It's a great show essentially talking to advertising people about how advertising permeates culture. It's exactly the type of show that can't be produced on advertiser-supported television.

This is from a segment where they will have two competing advertising executives produce an ad to try and sell a ridiculous concept. In the case above, it was invading New Zealand. This one was to convince people child labour was a good thing.


crucible t1_jbsgsz7 wrote

Yes, I've found a few channels with full episodes, some interesting discussions on it.

I saw one recently where the girl from the "Go to bed, Jessica" PSA video called them.


Kurotan t1_jbkad2m wrote

I wish offices were designed this way so the work day would feel shorter.


GarbageGobble t1_jbkq093 wrote

And that’s why having to go to the one store that just happens to only be inside of a mall is the most inconvenient experience possible!


EvlMinion t1_jbkztji wrote

I've experienced this as well as the opposite. There used to be a really small one nearby. It had an anchor in the center and stores in a U shape around the side, plus 2 exits at either end. It was suuuper easy to get around in that one. Sadly, it's now a Walmart.

One of the remaining malls here is a sprawling monstrosity. Every time I've been there, I got a little confused trying to figure out which side I was parked on.


Planarleo127890 t1_jbma7vp wrote

we have a medium sized mall and ours is designed that way too. the corridors of the malls are either dead ends or exits to different parking lots. its also confusing if you try to double back because you are not sure if you came in from the left or the right of the mall.


Omnivud t1_jbl98qx wrote

I get lost as soon as I enter that shit, good job I guess


Bierculles t1_jble58e wrote

I am completely immune against that because i am always disoriented, i have no clue where i am most of the time.


angelanna17 t1_jblhosj wrote

And all this time I thought I just had a terrible sense of direction.


ljog42 t1_jblshke wrote

Jokes on them, I lose track of time and geography everywhere !


itsarace1 t1_jblvoh6 wrote

How is this allowed with regards to fire safety/other emergencies? You figure it would be mandated that exits can be found easily.


Huge_Contribution_46 t1_jbm05ve wrote

This is exactly why I stopped using malls. It was fun with my shitty group of hs friends. Now it’s just depressing haha.


dressageishard t1_jbmndsb wrote

Yeh, but I have a good sense of direction when I'm shopping in malls.


edthomson92 t1_jbmnesp wrote

My two malls are pretty straightforward. No branching paths, and one is just one floor


Cycleofmadness t1_jbmsrc6 wrote

And the loss of money in both is a wealth transfer.


OwlHex4577 t1_jbn5n62 wrote

Target has Mastered this. It’s a f-Ing time warp in there. I run in to grab milk and walk out, hours later, laden with $500 of bullsht


Listen_to_Psybient t1_jbnhqgi wrote

Everything is about profit! Everything is about money! Nothing else matters!


suzer2017 t1_jbny4ft wrote

The word "like" was not necessary in this post.


CitationNeededBadly t1_jboevpp wrote

LOL. I have a recurring dream where I'm lost in a mall. Somehow I'm always in the wrong "wing". Which never happened in real life, our mall had "the wing with the arcade" and the other one.


XxRefuse2Lose t1_jbosdlb wrote

I used to work in a mall. Somehow I've never experienced this phenomenon before.


jdm1891 t1_jbpha5j wrote

I really enjoy the feeling of getting lost in places like this, reminds me of being a kid again. I love to wonder around (I don't buy things all that much though, wondering is more fun)


Chunkylover537 t1_jbqo56r wrote

The Gruen Transfer is also a great show on Australian tv.


icelandichorsey t1_jbk2gu1 wrote

So this kinda thing is normalised but when "nudging" is brought up everyone is all outraged all of a sudden 🙄🙄