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that_other_goat t1_jd41jfw wrote

I didn't say the British had nothing to do with it I said it would have happened regardless of the British or not they didn't matter. I said ironically the potato made a bad situation worse by propping up a failing system. I said the root of the problem was the inheritance system and the catholic church. The British exploited a failing system but the system was going to fail with or without them. The root of the problem was Irish inheritance law and the catholic church.

To have avoided the disaster you would have to corrected the problem which lead to it. People were going to die the potato made it worse as it created what we now call a bubble and all bubbles eventually pop. Shipping in food wouldn't have worked really well given period logistics. It was all moved by hand we have enough trouble dealing with famines with modern machinery.

Additionally period cultivars of Potatoes and wheat are harvested at different times of the year meaning when the famine first hit it the wheat was already gone it didn't stay locally. The earlies, one of our greatest developments in agriculture in my opinion, were not around yet. The crops in field? were not ready and a good portion of that was seed crop remember you need seed to plant next year.

Until the harvest you're on the fat of last year it's the sad irony that you're more likely to starve in the early summer before the crops are ready then in the dead of winter. They're known as the hungry times for a reason and this was true of everywhere. It hit at the worst possible time.

Add insult to injury blight can hit at any stage of potato development up until harvest as the weather triggers the spores development which ruins the crop so they got continually fucked over by potatoes.

History is complex but it teaches if you don't deal with the root of the problem you're destined to hit that problem head on. The Irish were well aware of their issues with land and continued to sell it off. Avoiding problems leads to disaster and that's a lesson we desperately need right now need I explain why?


rsclient t1_jd4krvj wrote

Well, reading your first sentence certainly gives the impression that you're not blaming the British:

> The Irish famines origins are from Catholicism, Irish laws of inheritance and a limited gene pool of potatoes

If your statement is true, we can confidently say that in Europe there are more famines in catholic countries than in protestant ones. Looking at the data, there are essentially no famous famines in spain, italy, or france -- which rather limits the value of assigning blame to being catholic.


that_other_goat t1_jd4ulnd wrote

You've made a false assumption.

All protestant nations were once Catholic the religion didn't change until the protestant reformation. The reformation caused many different schism in the church to form but the basics are pretty much the same and a lot of legal and cultural conditions come from that. The cultural practice I was referencing came from the catholic church itself not the religion it represented and they stuck around. It is still there even in modern secular Europeans societies.

Again you need to go to the root to find the issues. It was bad law and an a bit of Catholicism that planted a ticking timebomb.


sharksnut t1_jd58rjl wrote

>All protestant nations were once Catholic



that_other_goat t1_jd5tnyc wrote

Even Scandinavia.

The Christianization of the Scandinavian counties took place between the 8th and the 12th centuries whereas Martin Luther posted his 95 thesis on October 31, 1517 triggering the protestant reformations so yes they were Catholic. There was a few centuries where catholic was Christianity for the west. Eastern Orthodox was in the East out of Byzantium (eastern Roman Empire)

Interesting side note: the catholic church wouldn't have spread as it did without Charlamagne.


sharksnut t1_jd6eqda wrote

Yes, I know the dates, but I thought portions went directly from paganism to Christianity.


that_other_goat t1_jd7eg7f wrote

okay so you missed the intervening steps.

A lot of the structures we use in the west came to us via the catholic church even those that found their way to us from the ancient world.

Catholic monks copied and preserved the texts. The first printed book was the bible there was a reason a translation from Latin was such a big deal. The catholic church was the gate keeper for all information as they produced the books and were the majority of those that taught.

Catholicism is how the people of the era understood their world it was in everything. For example If you read agricultural texts from the period you'll see it's steeped in saints and religious symbology as most of the literate and producers of books was the clergy.

Reformation Europe inherited all this ingrained dogma.

my entire point is history is complex and long term. My point is you have to find the root of the problem to deal with anything else nothing gets done. This is a lesson we refuse to learn and one we've repeated time and time again.