Submitted by hipster_deckard t3_11v227u in todayilearned
Making dog bite noises as metal bits fly.
“Om nom nom!”
TF2 heavy sounds
“SANDVICH!”
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I thought the same thing. There could have been other pilots to see, but the jammed guns and shredded prop may have been enough evidence.
You always have a wingman.
They often had forward mounted "gun cameras" installed to document the engagements.
I'm guessing from the description this was the Pacific theater thus a Japanese enemy aircraft. Is it possible they were still using wood to build their AC making this feat a little easier?
I thought I read this in history that it made the AC very fast and maneuverable, but frail compared to American AC. Philosophy was fighting to the death, less about returning from mission.
Please by all means correct me if I don't have my facts straight.
I can say for certain that a Zero does not hold up well to a Sidewinder.
The Japanese Zero was made of duralumin, a secret special aluminum that didn’t provide armor but allowed the plane to be extremely maneuverable, it was almost half the thickness of the metal used in allied aircraft.
Interesting facts thank you
The control surfaces on the tail were fabric covered aluminium or wood. The tail itself was usually stressed skin aluminium over an aluminium frame. I think the key to doing this successfully is to approach very slowly, otherwise you will destroy your engine in the process of bringing down the enemy plane.
I have actually done this in the flight sim IL-2 1946, though those were against planes that didn’t have defensive gunners because that is frankly suicidal, and I don’t know how this real pilot didn’t just get shot.
Gunner might have used all his ammunition before the pilot got close... Or the plane remained outside of his firing arc.
You would have to be pretty confident to get that close to an enemy bomber. Might have been lingering for a while.
That is a likely scenario.
Thank you for your Insight and detail on the tail structure and materials
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Jackie want sheet metal https://youtu.be/tv4ZXhXn93I
Assert dominance, maintain eye contact. lol
Upgrade gonna get his money
sexily biting his lip the entire time
As the tail gunner swoons and “misses” every shot.
"Will it blend? That is the question!"
(moments later) "A6M 'Zero' dust. Don't breathe this!"
What kind of plane was he in?
Naval Aviators are a very special breed of crazy.
Being a Naval Aviator is like being a superhero, except instead of a cape, they have a flight suit and instead of an arch-nemesis, they have the laws of physics.
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We need warp speed in two minutes or we are all dead
It is physically impossible to repair the drive in less than four weeks.
Does it in ninety seconds
A good engineer always pads his estimates.
A good procrastinator always adds 20% to his time estimates.
> A good procrastinator always eventually gets around to adding 20% to his time estimates.
Buffer time!
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music builds
"We're not going to make it, are we?"
Jim….you better get down here
It's life jim, but not as we kno it
There's Klingons off the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow...
I had forgotten this!! Thank you!
It's more the laws of physics are their "kryptonite", because they definitely have arch-nemesis' in whoever the opposing pilots are, usually Ruzzian and Chinese these days.
Lol where is the US engaging in aerial combat with either of those countries? I don’t think there’s much dogfighting going on these days.
There's a lot of documented provocation on both China and Ruzzia's parts, there may not be anybody getting shot down currently, but there are absolutely tense moments, and that's what qualifies them as an arch-nemesis. Additionally, other air forces we're up against get their asses stomped, as they're usually flying outdated craft, China and Ruzzia are the only two non-NATO nations that have current generation craft, at least on paper.
They were trained to do this to protect navy ships from air attack. There’s a story about a navy chaplain that was a Catholic priest complaining that it was a form of suicide and therefor a mortal sin. An aviator told the chaplain that they would do their best to get out of the plane as it went down so it wasn’t suicidal.
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Imagine clergy splitting hairs over what is and is not likely to be judged suicidal by God while you’re trying to win the world’s deadliest war.
I mean, just STFU, respectfully.
Oh, you so going to hell.
Morale is critical in war. He needs to ask these kinda questions to do his job.
It’s understood, though I’m not sure morale is helped by being told you might be damned for eternity if your actions are too valorous.
It's knowing that someone in the strategic process is sanctioning the morality of your actions specifically so you don't fear damnation.
Some rules you just don’t violate.
Look up the Sonderkommando Elbe. Nazi Germany, in the waning days of the war, had an entire special unit made to do just this. They would climb yo and use steel propellers to “prop chop” big bombers then bail out, often flying into the formation so the B-17s and 24s couldn’t shoot at them without risking hitting their Allie’s.
There was a great episode on it on the History channel in the early 2000’s. Luftwaffe’s Deadliest Missions from the show Dogfights.
Not only that. But the chances of survival if you went down at sea made them alnost as suicidial as kamikaze pilots, just not as deluded.
Bravest of the brave.
I'm surprised the Corsair could get off the ground what with his massive depleted uranium balls.
Honest question: how do acts like this get officially recognized/ awarded? I halfway assume there had to be a witness but certainly that can’t always be the case
another pilot could've seen it - the fighting was very thick in WW2
It was very common for fighters to have gun cameras to confirm kills. Usually they'd start recording when the guns fired, but in some instances the pilots could activate them whenever. Otherwise there would be confirmation of a kill from a wingman, an observer on the ground, or even sometimes the enemy. In this instance, I'm sure there would be physical evidence as well, such as bits of Japanese plane stuck in the engine cowling!
ground mechanic: wtf did you do to this plane bro
pilot: it was the darndest thing you see...
Mechanic: And you did this, on purpose.
Pilot: ... Yes.
So there i was, munching up that Japanese planussy
So the WWll version of "Xbox record that."
TIL! Thank you!
That’s exactly what happened, they found chunks of the tail wing in the cowling. And also the obvious damage to the prop.
Red Tails (2012)
"An inspection of the plane found pieces of the Japanese plane’s tail wheel embedded in the American fighter’s engine cowling. "
ouch
I feel like the damage to the propeller would be quite visible
he had some friendlies in the area
Sometimes other pilots would see it.
However I am pretty sure 70% of these cases are completely made up, because pilots really like to prop up their kill counts, and landing with a destroyed prop would make you look stupid for hitting something, like another plane because you're too stupid to look around you, but its badass if you land back with a broken prop because you smashed an enemy plane with it, on purpose.
Fun fact about this, all throughout the Pacific many allied pilots would confirm Japanese kills because they saw the plane bank away and a smoke trail would follow afterwards, making the pilot believe they shot down a plane.
However the zero ( in this case) used a wep (or war emergency power, aka throwing nitrous into the engine to get a little bit more power out of it, but not actually that in this case) which threw out a lot of smoke.... So ya quite a few kills allied pilots made weren't actual kills. However with zero way of disputing it nothing can be done besides a blanket reduction of kills on reports, which no army will ever do, at least any public reports.
Please cite your sources?
"I'm pretty sure" doesn't cut it making statements like that.
“My source is I made it the fuck up
It's funny because he is making up the alleged fact that other people also make stuff up.
There are none.
There could never be a source like that, however it doesn't take a genius to put together the notion that pilots, who in general have a track record of overestimating their kills, would also alter stories to make themselves look better.
Because again coming back to base with a broken prop because you were an idiot doesn't look good, but ramming into a plane does. Don't mind the fact the facts of the story doesn't make fucking sense.
Also I could say the same thing to you, where are your sources that back up the fact it happened, were there other pilots who saw, did they find the wreckage of the enemy plane? Did the ramming plane survive and could be analyze it to see if it indeed ran someone.
Likely all that is gone to history. The plane scrapped, all the pilots either dead or never saw anything, the enemy plane just doesn't exist when it smacked the land or water. And all you got for a source, is the pilot itself.
You can add me, everyone who downvoted you and likely most people that read your response to the probably, staggeringly larger number of people who think you are full of shit.
‘Doesn’t take a genius’
Yup, you are a great example of this statement.
If this happened in a movie, I would say they had gone too far to be believable. It's one of those "truth is stranger than fiction" moments
Kinda like how they omitted some things from Hacksaw Ridge because they thought no one would believe it was true.
Like what for example
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE
“He treated himself for shock and dressed his own wounds, rather than having another medic emerge from safety to help. Five hours later, someone finally arrived with a stretcher. But when Doss saw a soldier in need, he rolled off, surrendered his stretcher, and started patching up his comrade. While Doss was waiting for more help to arrive, a sniper suddenly shot and shattered all of the bones in his left arm. (Hacksaw Ridge director Mel Gibson left this part out of the film because he felt that it was so heroic that audiences wouldn’t even believe that it had really happened.)”
Well fuck him for thinking so little of his audience's intelligence. The people that cared enough to check would have found the truth, the people too lazy to, screw em.
This happens all. the. time. It's been a very common thing with movies based on real live events. Real life doesn't have to follow storytelling rules and the stories are often seen as bullshit by viewers because no one bothers to check.
"Of course truth is stranger than fiction, fiction actually has to make sense." - Mark Twain
nothing stopping people from doing that anyways
Yes but it detracts from the genuineness of the film.
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Reminds me of the ending of Fury that a lot of people consider unrealistic, and it's definitely a stretch, but Audie Murphy did the exact same thing except the tank he was in was on fire.
Another soldier did it in Iraq a few years ago. He was unfortunately killed in action during that fire fight.
You can land a plane that's lost all engine power though (and/or your prop), but without your tail you're screwed.
Same. I’m no engineer but I would have imagined a prop would take too much damage way before it chopped through another plane. And I definitely would not expect the whole plane to survive. Though tbf im not even sure what these planes looked like. Obviously I’m not saying it isn’t possible, just that it sounds too crazy to believe!
Mythbusters did an episode on a prop chewing through another plane. Money shot is at about 3:35. https://youtu.be/3y1a2f5anZ4
Jesus it just rended through that thing like butter.
The plane was reconnaissance, so it could have used stretched canvas to skin much of the plane instead of metal.
Oh I see. TIL. Thanks for the info!
It is like the story of the only confirmed aircraft shot down with a pistol
My guy actually did the thing I always imagine whenever I look at propeller planes and see a flying blender.
Turns nazis into soup!
No soup for yoaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
That’s like something from a Looney Tunes cartoon, amazed it worked!
If anything ever needed a Sabaton song, it's this.
Any information about what was the japanese bomber? How could a propeller win against a (probable) metal frame? Fantastic!
Well, the tail gunner compartment would be glass and metal straps, the propeller would win the battle.
The rest.. he wouldn’t really need to destroy the tail, just damage the flaps on the tail and make the Japanese plane become unmenuverable.
Just by having a tail gunner tell me that it is something more substantial than a Zero.
The article says it was a recon plane. Many times they are built lighter to be able to stay in the air longer. But i didn’t really look into this
Maybe this one?
It was this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-45
full description of the event: > > On 10 May 1945 over Okinawa, Marine First Lieutenant Robert R. Klingman and three other pilots of VMF-312 climbed to intercept an aircraft they identified as a Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu ("Nick") twin-engined heavy fighter flying reconnaissance at 25,000 feet (7,600 m), but the "Nick" began climbing higher. Two of the FG-1D Corsairs ceased their pursuit at 36,000 feet (11,000 m), but Marine Captain Kenneth Reusser and his wingman Klingman continued to 38,000 feet (12,000 m), expending most of their .50 caliber ammunition to lighten their aircraft. Reusser scored hits on the "Nick's" port engine, but ran out of ammunition, and was under fire from the Japanese rear gunner. Klingman lined up for a shot at a distance of 50 feet (15 m) when his guns jammed due to the extreme cold. He approached the "Nick" three times to damage it with his propeller, chopping away at his opponent's rudder, rear cockpit, and right stabilizer. The Toryu spun down to 15,000 feet (4,600 m) where its wings came off. Despite missing five inches (13 cm) from the ends of his propeller blades, running out of fuel and having an aircraft dented and punctured by debris and bullets, Klingman safely guided his Corsair to a deadstick landing.[47] He was awarded the Navy Cross.[48]
Oh wow... Good thing that prop is like 14 ft in diameter
edit: 13.2ft diameter unless super corsair prototype which is 14.2ft
I couldn’t find anything about how this particular plane was made, but the famous zeros were mostly made of a thin aluminum alloy, which would be easily bent out of usable shape, if not destroyed entirely by a much thicker aluminum propeller on the Corsair.
On 10 May 1945 over Okinawa, Marine First Lieutenant Robert R. Klingman and three other pilots of VMF-312 climbed to intercept an aircraft they identified as a Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu ("Nick") twin-engined heavy fighter flying reconnaissance at 25,000 feet (7,600 m), but the "Nick" began climbing higher. Two of the FG-1D Corsairs ceased their pursuit at 36,000 feet (11,000 m), but Marine Captain Kenneth Reusser and his wingman Klingman continued to 38,000 feet (12,000 m), expending most of their .50 caliber ammunition to lighten their aircraft. Reusser scored hits on the "Nick's" port engine, but ran out of ammunition, and was under fire from the Japanese rear gunner. Klingman lined up for a shot at a distance of 50 feet (15 m) when his guns jammed due to the extreme cold. He approached the "Nick" three times to damage it with his propeller, chopping away at his opponent's rudder, rear cockpit, and right stabilizer. The Toryu spun down to 15,000 feet (4,600 m) where its wings came off. Despite missing five inches (13 cm) from the ends of his propeller blades, running out of fuel and having an aircraft dented and punctured by debris and bullets, Klingman safely guided his Corsair to a deadstick landing.[47] He was awarded the Navy Cross.[48]
Someone elsewhere in this thread posted a link of Mythbusters test of this exact question: https://youtu.be/3y1a2f5anZ4
The prop goes through the aircraft fuselage like a knife through butter.
All my doubts are shredded. Thank you.
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Corsairs were tough birds.
W.E.B. Griffin liked this
This happened all the time around ww2, on the first day of the invasion of the ussr 7 different pilots crashed their planes into German ones after running out of ammunition, one during the first hour. Most of them survived it because they did like the guy in this post and maneuvered it.
Polish pilots would also do it, and Japan had infamously used the same concept but without the chance of survival in the kamikazee attacks
During the Battle of Britain iirc a British pilot had gotten acclaim for doing the same thing, towards the end of the war the nazis had even organized pilots who were supposed to crash.
I didn’t know before today however that the us had done it. It is pretty intuitive though, they mention a lot of the people that i mentioned had figured this move out on their own
Brit spitfires would bump into unmanned V-1 rockets to disrupt the rocket's gyros and telemetry systems, causing the V-1 to go full redditard and crash. (BTW, V-1 had a ridiculously simple gasoline pulsejet engine with no moving parts. Just a combustion chamber, inlet, and outlet. They sound absolutely badass. At 2:40 they put a blower motor in front of it so you can hear what the engine sounded like in flight.)
What a shitty thumbnail in the article! If you Google him this exact picture is of him holding the broken propeller.
Dogfight equivalent to a knife kill in an open battle field. Surprised the plane can take off with balls that big.
I've really only seen this in cartoons!
Didn't call it the "Bent-Winged Bitch" for no reason. Navy corsairs and their pilots were fucking nuts.
The greatest generation.
Too close for guns, I'm switching to propeller!
Sounds like an action scene for Tom cruise
Good judgement call. Either the gunner takes him down, or he potentially takes them both down with a slim chance he'd make it out alive.
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He is a man of focus, commitment, and sheer fucking will
The pilot also received free beers for life.
I mean, I’d buy that guy a beer.
That tailgunner must have been a descendant of a stormtrooper
This tactic was much more often used at Eastern front in WW2
Interesting
I'm imagining the propeller making tablesaw noises while it eviscerated the tail like some Looney Tunes shit.
If the proppeler didn't Im sure the pilot did
That is some true bravery.
So anyways I started chomping.
I bet the plane mechanic was pissed though
A longer article someone else linked here mentioned he landed with severe damage including two very bent propeller blades. Also the others in his wing were in the same fight.
Aircraft Melee
Aerial melee combat
Anybody know what kind of plane it was that for chewed up?
The fucking balls to make a melee kill on a plane with a plane…
As drones become more and more mainstream, it’ll be weird that there was this blip in history where people fought in the flies like this. Strange to think.
#Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
Here comes the airplane wooom nomnomnomnom
Man did a Fox Four and lived to tell the story.
Nomnomnom
dash cam footage would have been awesome!
Even if the other plane is only made out of wood and fabric- how is this possible? The rotor surely broke, did it not?
What’s with the comments? Yall never heard of melee mode?
Why haven't we seen this in a movie yet?
Here is a better description. The Japanese plane was a Kawasaki Ki-45 “Nick” reconnaissance plane.
Yeah, I don't think air-to-air-melee combat is what they meant when they say dogfights lol
Mission accomplished? Kinda stupid tho tbh.
(citation needed)
Jamgull t1_jcr4p36 wrote
I’m imagining him making hard eye contact with the enemy tail gunner while he mulches up the plane with that comically large propeller