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Brilliant_Jewel1924 t1_iuenov5 wrote

Reply to comment by Gemmabeta in TIL: Asthmador was an asthma treatment in the US in the 1950s. It was made up of 3 toxic/hallucinogenic compounds belladonna (atropine), stramonium (nightshade/jimson weed), and potassium perchlorate (oxidant commonly used in fireworks). One common delivery method for Asthmador - cigarettes! by Geek_Nan

In regulated doses, belladonna is still prescribed for certain heart ailments.

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Geek_Nan OP t1_iuet8s8 wrote

Optometrists used to use atropine for eye dilations. And the name “belladonna” means pretty lady in Italian. Women used to take small doses to dilate their eyes because it was considered alluring ….

https://meghanmastersonauthor.com/bad-decisions-history-featuring-belladonna/

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Gemmabeta t1_iuexarn wrote

Optometrists still use atropine to this day.

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Gewt92 t1_iuf84m8 wrote

Atropine is used by medical professionals all the time.

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I-goes-to-eleven t1_iug10ht wrote

I use it 4-5 times a week.

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Gewt92 t1_iug14hi wrote

I have it on my ambulance but don’t use it that often.

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I-goes-to-eleven t1_iug1jrr wrote

I use it regularly for chemical stress echos to get patients to target heart rate along with dobutamine. Occasionally in a code situation.

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Gewt92 t1_iug1vui wrote

Why are you using atropine in a code?

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I-goes-to-eleven t1_iug2j1b wrote

Severe bradycardia usually. I feel like you should know this if you have access to it.

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Gewt92 t1_iug2ozu wrote

Ah you weren’t using code as cardiac arrest.

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I-goes-to-eleven t1_iugb8uq wrote

In about 99% of code situations, a mg of epi and an amp of atropine will be given within a minute of beginning compressions in the hospital setting, and will continue to be given to reach stability or until a continuous pressor has been started.

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Gewt92 t1_iugi5r3 wrote

No one uses atropine for cardiac arrests here anymore. I haven’t seen it used in a cardiac arrest in years.

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I-goes-to-eleven t1_iugoa2u wrote

We give it initially with epi because it helps with secretions and intubation. After that its just epi. By that time pacing pads are in place.

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MrTastey t1_iuh5ota wrote

Protocols vary wildly state to state, service to service and probably more so in different countries

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Gewt92 t1_iuh6b99 wrote

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/757257-medication#1

Giving a shit ton of atropine and Epi for Asystole/PEA isn’t recommended anymore. I know people have different protocols elsewhere but evidence based medicine suggests they shouldn’t.

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I-goes-to-eleven t1_iuhecec wrote

ACLS says otherwise. Current standards instruct epi every 3-5 min. Any provider over 40 gives atropine also to start for the reasons I gave above.

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NoMalarkyZone t1_iuheo7q wrote

Atropine isn't part of ACLS for any cardiac arrest. Only symptomatic bradycardia.

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I-goes-to-eleven t1_iuhpbxw wrote

Epinephrine. See how I linked this to the algorithm? Atropine is for reducing respiratory secretions and also given with initial dose only of epinephrine to sustain a recoverable rhythm at the discretion of the provider. This is how I do it most of the time, unless something tells me it’s unnecessary. And with most of my codes and rapid responses, there is a respiratory component that initial dose of atropine will benefit from. I forgot how many “internet doctors” are on Reddit. I typically do not engage for this very reason. Thanks for reminding me.

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NoMalarkyZone t1_iuhpym9 wrote

Maybe most "providers" give atropine to a dead heart but it's not part of ACLS, and most physicians don't.

In fact i don't think I've never seen an ED physician or intensivist give atropine to a pulseless person. There's no evidence of that helping in asystole, or anything other than symptomatic bradycardia - essentially pre-arrest.

Maybe follow the guidelines? It would also help to be less combative with everyone you're talking to.

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9Lives_ t1_iug884u wrote

Its also great for pain relief in micro doses, I’ve heard (through anecdotal reports) that opiates will make you ok with the pain whereas this datura derivative will eradicate the pain.

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Alexstarfire t1_iuh6r3a wrote

Is it because it falls off? You're supposed to keep the meds inside.

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TheoremaEgregium t1_iuh9wrw wrote

Guess it doesn't hurt so much when you do it for a ballroom only lit by candles.

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9Lives_ t1_iug7uyk wrote

It’s also used in some ayahuasca brews to prevent nausea and vomiting. It’s also an amazing pain reliever in micro doses.

On the inverse side, if you dose too high there’s a strong probability that you’ll be admitted to the psychiatric hospital. What freaks me out is that the entity’s people encounter are unlike other psychedelics (because datura is a deliriant) in that they are very specific. For example with DMT/shrooms people encounter machine elves which is a pretty blanket term and the entities manifest in different ways depending on the person but with datura it’s so specific and always a woman with black eyes and a pet wolf.

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Clid3r t1_iugwly1 wrote

Any written accounts of that?

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9Lives_ t1_iuh6vhk wrote

Yes HERE

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Mediocre-Age-7457 t1_iuhycue wrote

Could you please cite where in the reference? I’ve read the entire article and can’t find anything about a woman and her pet wolf.

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Clid3r t1_iuifq1n wrote

I should have been more clear that’s what I wanted to read about too.

People seeing little grey men is one thing… but a woman with black eyes and a wolf is pretty specific and I’d be curious to see if any controlled studies were done without letting the subjects know who/what to expect.

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DUNDER_KILL t1_iuj8jff wrote

There definitely aren't any. It's just the kind of thing where given enough sample size, a bunch of people will hallucinate the same thing, talk about it, and think there is a pattern. Then people hear about that and end up hallucinating it as well because they are thinking about it. Most people won't see a woman and a wolf and their experience just won't be noteworthy enough to be discussed

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Clid3r t1_iuj9l6t wrote

You never know, it’s why we were both asking.

Be interesting to hear people tried it and had the same experience, continents and decades apart.

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Brilliant_Jewel1924 t1_iuhg170 wrote

That’s very fascinating. I’m not sure I’d be willing to take any myself, but it’s interesting that they’ve done this research.

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9Lives_ t1_iuhlj7b wrote

It has many routes of administration, from tincture drops to ointments that you can apply locally.

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