on_ t1_isgj777 wrote
Reply to comment by goltz20707 in TIL: Sperms were thought to move by wiggling their tails side-to-side, like eels, for 350 years. But research shows that they roll as they move forward like a spinning top. by vect77
That’s pretty amazing cause nature doesn’t like to evolve in rotary thingys. I think in macro world there’s only one insect specie that has a rotary mechanism? Our lives would be better if we as humans had segway wheels instead of legs.
goltz20707 t1_isgjupk wrote
Protista “motors” are constructed at the molecular level, with (in the case of human sperm) 16 proteins in a ring. One proton per protein rotates the ring by one protein, so 256 protons are required per rotation. Scaling that up to the macroscopic level, even just to the size of a small insect, would require a very complex design. I can’t see such a design evolving naturally — it would take deliberate “intelligent design”.
bubliksmaz t1_ish4a8y wrote
It's not the complexity that precludes certain things evolving - organisms are fucking complex enough. It's the fact that evolution needs to happen in tiny incremental steps, each of which are beneficial to the organism. For legs, that's easy: First they're just fins for swimming, then maybe they're used to drag ones body across a short stretch of very shallow water, then they gradually take more of the weight to make locomotion more efficient. For a wheel and axle... nah.
goltz20707 t1_ishbsqj wrote
I guess what I meant is that a protein-proton motor that uses things like van del Waals forces and molecular mechanical mechanisms to create motion cannot work at the visible scale. I agree that complexity is no barrier for evolution—look at clotting factor chemistry—but I can’t imagine an incremental path to “wheels”. (I will admit it may be possible.)
nsaisspying t1_isiyuq1 wrote
Have you read the book Climbing Mount Improbable?
kommandeclean t1_islbffo wrote
Sort like humankind's intelligence, it will require some "intelligent design" to bestow upon us intelligence inside an organ .. psstt.. you are right crazy to think that.
goltz20707 t1_isligjz wrote
If you can convince me that you even come close to understanding proton-pump biology and why that cannot, cannot possibly scale past the molecular level, I’ll consider your argument.
kommandeclean t1_ism1l7u wrote
Your crude attempt to humiliate me tells me that maybe your brain is an example of failed scalability of intelligence in neural networks.
goltz20707 t1_ism3fpr wrote
I apologize. I should know better than to escalate an argument like this. If it’s put you into a depressive spiral like it has me, then I doubly apologize. Antagonism was not my intent.
dogfish83 t1_ishw888 wrote
I’ve been watching modern videos on molecular biology and it’s way better than when I was in HS, so I am really into this right now. And the rotary concept has been my primary thought. How hard would it be to make artificial molecular rotary motors I wonder…
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