CrossXFir3 t1_ixem73d wrote on November 22, 2022 at 9:22 PM

Reply to comment by corran132 in TIL nearly 60 senators were part of the conspiracy to assassinate Julius Caesar, but he was stabbed 23 times, with only 1 wound being fatal. Caesar ultimately died at the base of the statue of his former rival, Pompey the Great. by axonable

I don't disagree with that, but I think intentions matter. And from what I can see, the intention was to trick the masses into giving him power personally. I think what he did caused damage to progressive movements for literal millennia.

corran132 t1_ixeopr8 wrote on November 22, 2022 at 9:40 PM

I can see where you are coming from, but I'm afraid I don't agree with your conclusion.

I can't see the republic lasting more than another generation, with or without Caesar. Given that, and given that he did do the bare minimum and was a capable administrator, I do give him a modicum of credit.

Besides which, I think conservatives are always going to find someone to blame. If not Caesar, then it would have been those dastardly Gracchi, nothing but populist rabble rousers with their proto-commie ideals. People are always going to use/pervert history to fit their agenda. As an example, the third Riche literally held up Frederic the Great as the idea Aryan man, despite him being a homosexual Francophile. (And yes, I know I just Godwin'd myself)

I'm not trying to pretend he was some great altruist, or paragon of virtue- god knows he wasn't. And I think your reading of history is valid. Just that I am far more sympathetic to his position, given the realities of the roman Senate in his day, and the way that the established order has always presented the version of history that is most favorable to them.

EuphyDuphy t1_ixfpg2d wrote on November 23, 2022 at 2:22 AM

Just chiming in to say this was a very interesting thread to read :)

Stratafyre t1_ixmsy9v wrote on November 24, 2022 at 5:16 PM

I just wanna echo this sentiment! Great discussion.

laconicflow t1_ixgi9wb wrote on November 23, 2022 at 7:04 AM

But let's say he'd done everything he said he'd do, and still became dictator for life, and then he died. Now Rome's lost its enlightened despot and its Republic. If the senate sucks, you can elect different senators easier than killing an emperor you don't like.

I mean, this was 2000 years ago, I'm impressed there was ever any kind of Republic at all, the poor getting fucked over was standard for that time, wasn't it?