Gemmabeta t1_ixuhcrv wrote
Reply to comment by Ahab_Ali in TIL Singapore’s constitution requires the President to have experience as a minister - or as CEO of a large, profitable company. by ltdanhasnolegs
And the third prime minister is the son of the first one.
Advertising-Cautious t1_ixuhumh wrote
Political dynasties are so common around the world. Even Canada's current PM belongs to this class
Gemmabeta t1_ixui9ut wrote
But when the two of them have ruled for a combined total 49 years out of the office's 62-year history...
Skythewood t1_ixxed5a wrote
Skewed heavily by the 1st prime minister's 31 years.
Advertising-Cautious t1_ixuihrf wrote
And so?! They have been largely effective I would say. Of course they are not a perfect democracy, but to suggest that its a de facto dictatorship is too harsh
rockbridge13 t1_ixuxs20 wrote
It's a one party autocracy, it's not really a democracy. It's about as democratic as Russia is. If you read up on their election laws, it's free but very unfair.
pizzapiejaialai t1_ixv3pfm wrote
Japan has been ruled by one party for a vast majority of its post war history. These political structures are common in Asia.
Isares t1_ixv83gf wrote
So, why do you think the elections are unfair?
mediosteiner t1_ixuyg26 wrote
'It's about as democratic as Russia is.' - Ahahahahaahhaahahah
Ok sure please do tell me about the unfair laws.
thesleepybol t1_ixx5qov wrote
No point debating them my guy. Most non-Singaporeans can't wrap their head around the fact that:
-
The majority can, and may actually want, to vote in a particular government repeatedly for over 60 years straight.
-
Its possible for an incumbent government to function at a level consistently enough that they retain the majority's favour
-
Asian societies can have a political dynasty like the US or Canada without it being autocratic (which lowkey reeks of western superiority tbh since its generally acceptable in the West but never in Asia)
On the 3rd point, it would be a stretch to even call it a political dynasty anymore: the PM in waiting has no connection to the Lee family and none of the candidates for the top position in government back when they were fighting it out were related to them either.
In fact, none of the descendants of the Lee family are involved in governance: one of them even had to leave Singapore to get married to his gay partner because of the laws here and I don't think he came back. That doesn't seem very dictator-like when even the members of your alleged "ruling" family have to leave.
Not saying that Singapore doesn't have its downsides (and we do have a lot): our treatment of the LGBTQ community, our drug laws, laws on civil protest, and treatment of foreign workers are outright draconic, and the list goes on. But I do agree with you that the calling us a dictatorship or autocracy just reflects a complete misunderstanding of Singapore's political landscape.
cchiu23 t1_ixy4h97 wrote
This ignores the fact that
- Signapore has abysmal press freedoms
Yes its not impossible for a single party to keep people happy but it sure is easier if people are generally afraid to criticize you without reprisal
https://rsf.org/en/country/singapore
- The ruling party uses (read: abuses) the legal system to crush credible opponents
https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/10/17/singapore-end-efforts-silence-opposition
thesleepybol t1_ixyaxyi wrote
There's some nuance to be added to that I think, which applying a Western lens to Singapore politics results in the loss of.
On press freedoms:
- Singapore's press is heavily censored, I'll admit; but, I think this needs to be caveated in a few ways. First, its quite clear that censorship has little to do with political dissent and more to do with hate speech. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone familiar with Singapore politics and policy, especially given the government's long-time stance on racial and religious harmony. (See Singapore's OB markers, their shift, and the calls for their narrowing vis-a-vis racial issues). Personally, there are other areas that I think deserve further narrowing of the respective OB markers for, but that's a discussion for another time. Regardless, the point is that its much more nuanced than simply saying people are afraid of criticising the government without reprisal. Unless of course, your point is that complete unfettered free speech, regardless of their truth is alright, which is the position in some countries.
- Second, its quite well-known that the role of the media in Singapore is very different from the Western idea of the media as the fourth estate: its been stated from as early as the 1990s that the media would only function as a source of information, without the accompanying political commentary that one sees in publications such as the NYT, Fox news, the Economist, etc. This was borne out of fear that media outlets can be manipulated to push conflicting or incendiary narratives. Considering how we see how the media can be manipulated to incite division or being used for political ends in the US, I'm inclined to say that our concerns were actually proven right. See the following for examples that were stated long before media manipulation in the US became a hot topic:
From paragraph 20 onwards: https://www.nas.gov.sg/archivesonline/data/pdfdoc/2006100601.htm
​
On defamation suits:
- I think to say that the government abuses the legal system is quite uncalled for. To begin with, if someone makes false and defamatory statements about a person, or a government figure, are they to have no recourse to the courts? Defamation suits are very much a thing in most jurisdictions around the globe. I don't see why its highlighted as a problem in Singapore's case.
- Also, to say that the legal system is abused to silence opposition members glosses over the substance and effect of the allegations. For instance, in the recent defamation case launched by the current PM, he was accused of misappropriating public pension funds. Considering the serious political implications of this allegation, is the government expected to sit there and accept it, or should they be allowed to vindicate themselves in a court of law? If its the latter, that's how you get the unchecked spread of fake news. Again, I don't think that's a very viable option considering how its been shown (again by the US) that rational discourse responding to those spreading said allegation doesn't have any effect anymore.
- Also, Singapore doesn't even come anywhere close in the award for damages as compared to other jurisdictions. The UK, US and Australia regularly award sums from a million dollars or upwards. I think its a bit disingenuous to say that Singapore is especially harsh in defamation suits.
pizzapiejaialai t1_ixybvil wrote
The methodology that Reporters without borders use is inaccurate, unscientific by any measure, and should be treated with the same derision you'd treat a highly partisan news channel.
When you rank Singapore (where the regional HQ of BBC, CNN, Reuters, etc and no journalists have been killed) lower than the Congo ( where 6 journalists have been killed in recent years) then everyone ought to laugh at you.
zachzsg t1_ixv6wr3 wrote
The Castro dynasty
[deleted] t1_ixuxup7 wrote
[deleted]
pizzapiejaialai t1_ixv3a32 wrote
Hmm..... I distinctly remember a George H.W. and a George W.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments