KesselRunIn14 t1_iy0gbt2 wrote
Reply to comment by Herpes-in-space in TIL that many pro archers use surprise release mechanisms to prevent themselves from anticipating and reacting to the impending impact. by broogernavn
Honestly the title of this post is terrible, as is the amount of misinformation in this thread.
The purpose of a back tension release is to ensure the the arrow leaves the bow from the same point every time. It's got nothing to do with it being a surprise. If a compound archer is surprised by the release they are 100% not a "pro archer". A professional competing archer will have shot thousands of arrows and will know exactly when the arrow is going to release.
They can be a useful aid for people suffering target panic but they are in no way a solution.
Edit: Myriad of typos...
OtterProper t1_iy0mu3a wrote
As a former competition archer, I completely concur. I clicked through to state precisely this.
muuus t1_iy0m88e wrote
Classic TIL. This sub is mostly misinformation/manipulation/unsupported claims.
[deleted] t1_iy0piw7 wrote
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TurChunkin t1_iy0scql wrote
Yeah, well as someone who uses and hunts with one of these releases, I don't agree with their critique. IMO the surprise part is in fact an important element of how they are used.
incomingKiddo t1_iy1clat wrote
Well, they did say professional... and I would wager that hunting and competitive archery are very different
escapingdarwin t1_iy1exqm wrote
Many “factual” and “scientific” reddit posts are garbage info, be careful what you believe. The ones that say “could be”, “might be” are even worse.
a_drive t1_iy0q7ly wrote
Source?
iobeson t1_iy2kozw wrote
Tomato
but_a_smoky_mirror t1_iy0p7oa wrote
Says who????
Seto_Sora t1_iy0rmoq wrote
Incorrect. "Classic TIL" is an interesting post with limited info (usually due to character count or language barrier), and experts weighing in with more info or even more interesting info in the comments. The OP you commented on is "classic TIL." Your second sentence is not.
shhhhhhh_ t1_iy0u64k wrote
The real TIL is always in the comments!!
Carighan t1_iy157z8 wrote
Yeah, my ex uses them, and the title could not be further from the truth.
longtimegoneMTGO t1_iy125uy wrote
I think the issue here may come down to terminology.
The physiological component here isn't really surprise, but conscious vs unconscious action. In short, as you start the action of letting go your body will automatically tense your muscles a bit in anticipation of the shock from releasing the bow string. Using a release device avoids that, you don't tense right before release because your muscles aren't aware that you are starting to release.
On a mental level you know to a pretty good degree of accuracy when the release is going to happen, but the exact moment is uncertain enough that you don't automatically tense in preparation for it.
Intensityintensifies t1_iy2km9a wrote
Personally the arrow randomly going off would create more of a reaction than the knowledge I was releasing it. Then again I’m super flinchy.
YellowGetRekt t1_iy2vkuz wrote
Well the reaction from the arrow going off randomly will be after its already fired and at that point the reaction doesnt matter
monsterblood10 t1_iy12li9 wrote
Just out of curiosity, how would modern archers compare against historical ones like the mongols/longbowmen etc? Do we have better range, accuracy etc?
htp-di-nsw t1_iy1uba1 wrote
Modern equipment is insanely better.
However, modern archery technique is entirely either entertainment-focused either trick shooting or target shooting where hitting precise spots is the only thing that matters, while archers from history would have been using archery in life or death situations.
In reality, neither Lars Anderson doing backflips while hitting erratic thrown targets with a bow whose draw weight would barely penetrate human skin nor the entire cadre of Olympic archers who fire 6 arrows in 2 minutes would be anywhere near as dangerous in a real battle as a typical Mongol warrior or any historical archer who participated in wars.
You see, you can't actually fire like Lars and still kill someone, especially through armor. But you also can't spend 20 seconds per arrow aiming at a moving target trying to kill you back. When you're putting arrows into a person's body, a hit that's an inch or two off center isn't going to matter.
invent_or_die t1_iy14yiy wrote
Modern equipment is light years ahead of anything they had. Gotta believe techniques are far better as well.
NorthernerWuwu t1_iy1pta4 wrote
As a counterpoint though, relatively few people today make a career out of it while archers might well have devoted their entire lives from a young age to the skill back in antiquity.
Obviously the modern equipment is orders of magnitude better but if both were using the same stuff, I'm not so certain the results would be the same.
TheDBryBear t1_iy2kegb wrote
also entirely different purpose - archers would not be singular they would be firing in a unit and be on the move
[deleted] t1_iy2ucqr wrote
[removed]
DiarrheaDrippingCunt t1_iy149i1 wrote
🤓
TurChunkin t1_iy0s81z wrote
Sorry, but saying these having "nothing to do with a surprise" is just flat out not true. Maybe you could make the argument that is true for pros, but in general use, the surprise element is a real component.
KesselRunIn14 t1_iy0wmu1 wrote
I mean... You should never been surprised when your arrow is released... At best it's going to cause inconsistencies, at worst it's just flat out dangerous. If you've shot even a few hundred arrows you should still be able to anticipate when the arrow is going to release. If that is not the case, it is almost certainly down to form, which is 100% fixable.
> Maybe you could make the argument that is true for pros
This article is discussing pros... It should still stand for any experienced archer.
TurChunkin t1_iy11wfa wrote
The "surprise" is down to milli or micro seconds of difference, it does exist, and no it is not dangerous. Regardless of whether or not someone should or shouldn't be surprised by a tension release and your own opinions of their use, it still happens. Maybe it's just semantics and how you define the word "surprise." In my experience it allows you to practice archery in a flow state similar to throwing a ball or playing ping pong. You do the action and the thing happens.
I'll try to explain from my perspective (for what it's worth). Not sure if you have extensive use shooting one of these releases, but when aiming at a target I'm sure you can imagine seeing the sight pin "bobble" over the bullseye (or equivalent). It's impossible for us to hold a sight perfectly steady and always held dead on the target, but what we are able to do it to train ourselves to adjust and readjust and constantly pull the sight pin back onto target after drifting. This means that the exact moment the pin is dead perfectly on the target isn't quite the proper moment to pull a trigger, because you will inevitably drift away again a short (micro second) later, and now you have just pulled the trigger while the pin isn't on the target.
The surprise element comes into play because that specific micro second in time has been removed from the equation, and you can just focus on the form of the shot, and not the when of pulling the trigger. Since you can train your muscle memory to be constantly adjusting and readjusting to put the pin back on target the exact fraction of a second that happens if the pin was slightly off the target it will be moving back towards dead on even as you execute the shot. This gets removed from conscious thought and becomes reliant on muscle memory to execute.
Not trying to say there is anything wrong with a regular trigger release. Everyone has their own preferences. Honestly I think it's bogus to say one way is right or the other wrong, mostly I just took issue with your claim that there's "no surprise" and especially that there is something dangerous about tension releases.
KesselRunIn14 t1_iy2xtwn wrote
So I 100% understand what you are saying, and I'm glad that a tension release helps you.
With that being said, you are using it wrong I'm afraid, or at least, not in the way that they are intended to be used. If it works for you, that's fine I guess, but if you want to improve as an archer you may want to consider coaching. It's not how the pros use them.
As you said, you are constantly drifting when sighting a target, if you want to consistently hit the x ring of a target, you don't want to be releasing when you are drifting away from it.
The release should be a conscious decision. You come up to full draw, and when you want to release you do a final squeeze of your back muscles which causes the arrow to release. It is very similar to the way a clicker is used in recurve.
​
>mostly I just took issue with your claim that there's "no surprise" and especially that there is something dangerous about tension releases.
I can see how you might have read what I said. I 100% did not mean to suggest tension releases are dangerous. It is my release of choice and I always encourage my students to use a tension release if they feel comfortable with one.
benjvar22 t1_iy1gjf6 wrote
good explanation, sorry they downvoted you
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