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DownwindLegday t1_ix8aqzs wrote

>The adobe brick pyramid stands 25 metres (82 ft)[3] above the surrounding plain, which is significantly shorter than the Great Pyramid of Giza's height of 146.6 metres (481 ft), but much wider, measuring 300 by 315 metres (984 by 1,033 ft) in its final form,[3] compared to the Great Pyramid's base dimensions of 230.3 by 230.3 metres (756 by 756 ft).[4]

That's cool, but I think when most people think 'largest pyramid' they are probably thinking of height, not volume.


watanerd t1_ix9lajc wrote

Yes. An Amazon warehouse might be larger in volume, but not as impressive as a skyscraper


Runswithshortshorts t1_ix8cfb7 wrote

Ehhh, idk. “Tallest” obviously means height, but “largest?” I definitely thought of a wider base structure when I heard “largest.” But then again, I’ve seen some indigenous ruins during my travels so maybe I was already primed for that.


NorthernerWuwu t1_ixam7un wrote

We generally use 'largest' to mean 'biggest' or most grandiose or something of that sort and building a 150m high pyramid is orders of magnitude harder than building a 25m high one an extra 75m long on each side. Hell, when it comes to pyramids the narrower the base to the height, the more challenging it is.


golem501 t1_ix8gtwv wrote

I have a Netflix subscription as well! You're watching Ancient Apocalypse aren't you?


Realistic_Truck t1_ix9klu3 wrote

Watched it but his premise is wrong.


EnnWhyCee t1_ix9r11g wrote

How so?


blackday44 t1_ixa4rtk wrote

I'm only partway through the series, but.... the host is going from ancient monument to ancient monument pointing out stuff that archaeologists have missed/dismissed because of that pesky 'science'. He seems to be building up (ba dam tish) to some kind of global flood theory.

Pretty sure that our ancestors built pyramids because that's the best way to pile rocks so they stay up. And a global flood is literally not possible (science!) But seeing as how settlements are typically built at a water source, most of those settlements have probably flooded at some point, so pretty much all mythologies have a flood story.


Caspiu5 t1_ixaf8nl wrote

I'm pretty sure he is building up to the Younger-Dryas impact theory. Something like a series of meteor impacts 12,000 years ago caused rapid changes in climate. It's not just about a "flood" its that during the last ice age the sea level was hundreds of feet lower. Since humans like to build on the coasts this would have drowned any existing ancient civilizaitons


dew22 t1_ixaoprt wrote

Correct he’s building to the YDIH and then claims, with out evidence, that there was civilization that existed and spread their knowledge all over the world. He does this with zero evidence to support the idea of a lost civilization


StaySchwifty420 t1_ixato2b wrote

He doesn’t do this without evidence. He uses myths from across different cultures, and temples and their relation to astronomy to suggest a lot of these different structures are older than believed. It’s fine to not believe that is sufficient evidence, but to pretend he just came up with it and didn’t try to back it up with evidence is just false.

Also, it doesn’t seem like he’s saying there is a single lost civilization, but several that were ended due to the climate disaster.


dew22 t1_ixav0g1 wrote

He definitely just came up with it any number of civilizations could independently build structures in relation to astronomical bodies, they can all see the sky, it’s a huge stretch to claim it’s because a lost civilization told them too. There is no physical evidence to back up his claims.


stench_montana t1_ixawlct wrote

You're really framing this in a strawman way. He does at times suggest that leap, but he more often is pointing out valid evidence of structures that go against the modern timeline of progress and is saying the current timeline is incorrect. Gobekli Tepe and the megalithic templea at Malta are both worth studying much more and in my eyes are strong evidence to reconsider the timeline of human technological capability.


MaximilienHoneywell t1_ixb9cc7 wrote

To be fair, all Graham Hancock ever does is strawman “mainstream” archaeology.


stench_montana t1_ixbmecs wrote

He definitely makes too many leaps, like constantly. The whole "Let's talk about Atlantis" moment made me cringe during the series. There is some valid evidence of interesting things from longer ago than the 6000 years currently accepted.


StaySchwifty420 t1_ixb06wt wrote

Yeah that’s not what is claimed at all though. It seems like you’re trying very hard to strawman the position. I’d suggest actually watching it or at least trying to understand what is being stated before jumping to “he just made it all up”.

He gives a few speculations on why they might have built these structures this way, but none of them were “some ancient civilization told them to.”


eternalsteelfan t1_ixau54r wrote

Objectively: he’s been claiming for a long time that civilization is much older than we think and there were advanced civilizations that were wiped out by some cataclysm and the ancient, sophisticated wonders were signs that some history and methods were passed down orally by survivors. The rise of the Younger Dryas Impact could be seen as something that corroborates (or simply coincides with) his theory as well as the ever-increasing “age” of civilization as seen in Gobekli Tepi and similar sites. Subjectively: There are a lot of naysayers, but it’s fair to say that over the past few years his theories have generally looked better and better. I think he’s a bit off the deep end with how “advanced” he proposes they were, but I think it’s very interesting (and plausible) there were civilizations lost to time. Even if we vanished, there’d be no signs left after ten thousand years and the Younger Dryas was like 12,000 years ago.


dew22 t1_ixaujjl wrote

Is it plausible? Of course but there’s no physical evidence for it and then the claim that they sailed all over the world spreading knowledge to other civilizations, yeah his conjecture is bullshit. The time to believe in ancient lost civilizations is when there is evidence to back it up, not a crackpot journalist making claims to sell bullshit books


eternalsteelfan t1_ixb2pea wrote

Again, 12000 years ago, not exactly a possibility for a ton of physical evidence. Things do, suspiciously, keep getting older…

I think the strong reactions, like yours, to the mere notion that it’s possible we don’t know everything about ancient history is even more fascinating than the theories, however outlandish.


dew22 t1_ixb3j1w wrote

Yes, as new evidence is discovered we change and adapt our theories to fit the evidence, that’s how science works. The time to believe something is when there’s evidence, pardon me for not wanting to take a journalist at his word.


eternalsteelfan t1_ixb4kdp wrote

The farther you go back, the more abstract things get. There is “evidence”, it’s a matter of if you believe it and how you interpret it. Someone sees an ancient road buried under the sea, others see a rock formation.


dew22 t1_ixb510l wrote

Which is why I default to scientific consensus, and the scientific consensus around the Bimini Road is that it’s a naturally occurring geological formation


stench_montana t1_ixawuhu wrote

Gobekli Tepi IS the evidence for it. What do you need, a VHS and guidebook?


Caspiu5 t1_ixb0nro wrote

The Bimini Road, a uniform and leveled structure dozens of feet below sea level, consistent with what sea levels would have been during the last ice age, is enough evidence for me that the age of civilization and the age of many of our great megoliths is worth further examination


eternalsteelfan t1_ixb3588 wrote

Look into the water erosion questions about the Sphinx and Robert Schoch. Pretty interesting stuff and also branded “fringe”.


Caspiu5 t1_ixb5531 wrote

The other thing we are battling against is that we know historical Christianity and Islam (other regions i'm sure as well) were masters at building on top of historical sites, burying them and replacing the older cultures.


eternalsteelfan t1_ixbbnjr wrote

Destructions of libraries is another aspect; Viking raids, library of Alexandria, sack of Baghdad.


pair_o_socks t1_ixadxjl wrote

He thinks that once the ice age ended, that global sea levels rose almost 400 ft, flooding most of the existing human settlements and cities. He had to assume that there was some cataclysmic event that caused the ice to melt relatively suddenly.


EnnWhyCee t1_ixadvnx wrote

I agree he tried to build it up to a future flood, but I have to disagree on the premise as you state it.

I understood him primarily describing how cultures could have existed long before modern archeologists theorize. I think where he describes a future flood is probably just a silly scare tactic for viewership.

I think if you continue through the series you'll see more what I'm talking about. I didn't start to enjoy it more until maybe halfway through.


MarcusForrest t1_ixhf9qk wrote

This recent thread is an excellent start - as is this other thread and also this excellent thread


In short,

  • He doesn't really give any evidence for his claims, only a lot of "what ifs"
  • He doesn't seem to understand how science works. He claims archeologists oppose his theory, because it's "an attack against the current paradigm, and archeologists are reluctant to change the paradigm", but that's simply untrue. The paradigm changes constantly every time new evidence is discovered.
  • His formula is unscientific;
  • Hancock describes something cool in vague, romanticized terms. This is often done in the first person in a journalistic style to provide an air of legitimacy without needing to be thorough
  • Hancock asserts the thing's mysterious nature. He does this actively by showing how things archaeologists said 100 years ago (or never said at all!) fail to explain the thing, or passively by ignoring decades of research, positioning himself as the first person to ask these questions.
  • Hancock offers an additional, enticing observation that, having had all other context stripped away, functions as the single knowable fact
  • Hancock suggests his kooky hyper-diffusionist explanation for that observation that only makes sense if the handful of observations he's provided are the only ones you know

Because Hancock has stripped away all context for his observations, he can make whatever claims he wants. And because most readers have no familiarity with archaeological literature outside their high school history books, they don't know how much information Hancock is not telling them.


More recently, Hancock has shifted to theories that violate that first scientific fundamental. His book America Before is the culmination of his obsession with the Younger Dryas Impact Theory.


Sensationalized unproven claims while dismissing science is absolutely bad and should not be encouraged.


^(Note: 95% of this comment isn't my own stuff, but copy-pasted from the linked threads)


EnnWhyCee t1_ixhgx7g wrote

It's entertainment. I don't read too much into it. It aligns with my own thoughts that there must have been some other civilization before the current. I don't care if people thinks it's debunked, because honestly nobody knows for certain. It's a fun thing to think about that doesn't harm anyone.


GfxJG t1_ix9wk7z wrote

Well no shit, no-one's watching it because they believe him lmao


kissingdistopia t1_ixa9nli wrote

I really enjoyed it because I got to learn a out some cool places I didn't know exist. I spent a lot of time on Google between episodes.


GfxJG t1_ixc9sx2 wrote

Exactly, it was super fun to watch, but doubt many watch it because they wanted evidence of ancient civilizations.


golem501 t1_ix9wll7 wrote

I'm not watching it expecting holy writ but the dating on these monolithic structures is interesting.

Netflix documentaries are a bit American for my liking though. Short bits of high attention extreme theories, spoon fed


ABirthingPoop t1_ixeijss wrote

A bit americannnn for my taste. Lol the guy isn’t even American


golem501 t1_ixelmp2 wrote

Maybe i didn't mean the guy but the way the "documentary " is made


kissingdistopia t1_ixa9ehb wrote

My favourite part was when he interviewed an amateur geologist about the channeled scablands in Washington because all the professional geologists use science instead of shrugs to explain how it formed.


mini_souffle t1_ixaki7i wrote

That's Randall Carlson you are dismissing.


kissingdistopia t1_ixb997x wrote

The show describes him as an amateur geologist and author in the little blurb under his name. If he has more credentials they should have used them.


dblattack t1_ix9xbue wrote

I visited the great pyramid of Cholula. My friend and I woke up so hungover and made it to the lobby couch of our hotel where we passed out again. Eventually we wake up to our cab driver calling our names. We forgot we arranged him to come take us to the pyramid on our day off. We muster up the courage to go, stopping at a pharmacia along the way to get some meds. We get dropped off near the base of the pyramid and my friend immediately tells me he's gotta find a place to puke.

We find an outdoor washroom, each stall has a shower curtain as a door and you have to pay some pesos to get in. My friend pays the man who stands outside his shower curtain the entire time he pukes. Part way through puking, gun shots erupt, terrifying. Except these were not gun shots, they were fireworks from a top the pyramid, I can only imagine my friend's feelings at this moment.

We embark up the very long path of the pyramid, the air feels great and gets better the higher we go, helping with our hangover. We get to the top and there's a Spanish church there. Apparently the Spanish buried the entire pyramid and built a church a top to rid the original culture. We also paid a few pesos to go through the tunnels where you can actually see some of the buried pyramid. Outside the stones are so old and so well carved, I was impressed.

After making our way down and with nothing in particular to do we hear loud music bumping so we decided to walk that direction. All of a sudden we find ourselves in the middle of the Mexican independent day festival, the roads are closed and blankets and tarps are strung all across the street as make shift roofs.

There are all sorts of nick nak shops and food vendors everywhere. Most of the Mexicans were sipping on micheladas (beer, clamato and Tabasco) in giant American style cups. We were not daring enough for this but my friend tried horse meet and I tried the shrimp.

We walked for hours but I think my favorite memory was a 5 year old girl pushing a wheel barrel filled to the brim with some sort of fried caterpillars. It was a sight to be seen and major cultural shock.

We walked the festival up and down twice. This was still one of my favorite memories of Mexico. I love Peubla.


mongicom t1_ixbja6g wrote

The Spanish did not bury the pyramid. The pyramid was long abandoned and overgrown and looked like a hill to them. They had no idea it was a pyramid for centuries.


GuestAdventurous7586 t1_ixcope8 wrote

What an awesome story.

This makes me want to go on holiday and wake up hungover to go on some long, wandering peregrination amidst ancient culture and then more drunk later.


tanney t1_ixma8tp wrote

Greetings from Cholula Pueblo Mágico my friend!!!


Dawnawaken92 t1_ix88myg wrote

A friend of mine keeps saying the Aztecs built their temples on even older temples that even they had no idea who built. And apparently their writing say as much. Anyone got any sources to prove or disprove this.


RolowTamassee t1_ix89hn4 wrote

This is often true of any major historical site. For the Aztecs and Mayans, they often built pyramids over/atop other (previous) smaller ones. Generally the site location is what was important; either a source of water, a spring, specific fault lines, etc.

The old saying about real estate was true even for them: Location, location, location!


Gemmabeta t1_ix8g5qy wrote

They found something like 9 different "Cities of Troy" built right on top of each other dating back all the way to the early Bronze Age.


DiscotopiaACNH t1_ixarrz9 wrote

This is a really silly question but how does this work, exactly? Are they directly on top of one another? Is there just some weird midway period where everyone's house is half buried and they build another story? I've always been puzzled by the mechanics of this


Nobelissim0s t1_ixbk9g8 wrote

These are usually long periods of time apart, sometimes centuries. In the case of Troy it's been burnt down/destroyed a few times. I guess over time the remains get eroded or new dirt ends up ontop of the old and people just build ontop of that.

It always seems like somehow these things fall down under the floor and im sure there is someone who understands this stuff better than I that can explain how buildings end up being below ground level over time other than "dirt gets on it"


open_door_policy t1_ix8crgk wrote

I liked Pratchett's comment on it. Something like, "It ends up that what cities are built on is mostly older cities."


miasabine t1_ix8k92t wrote

Yup. A lot of churches were built over pagan temples when Christianity swept through the world. For the location and convenience mostly. Also, it would probably be easier to convince vikings to start adopting a radically different religion if going go church is as similar an experience as possible to going to whatever temple they used to have. The cynic in me imagines “dear vikings, come to our church, it’s where your temple used to be. We preach love and tolerance and we’re keeping things as “normal” as possible, we won’t tell you about eternal damnation until we’ve hooked you in with everlasting life in paradise” would be the best tactic.


tkdch4mp t1_ix8uns9 wrote

It also helped to rebrand the holidays they already knew and practiced


miasabine t1_ix8x2i1 wrote

Absolutely, I think that’s a part of keeping things “business as usual” as much as they can. Enticing or convincing someone is a lot easier if you do it bit by bit, rather than completely up-ending their view of the world in one fell swoop. You start with the positives, then you get to the negatives once they’re already pretty much on board.

It’s manipulative, but it’s also effective.


emperor_scrotum_II t1_ix9c48y wrote

Interestingly, the stigma against eating horse meat in European culture actually came to be as it was considered a delicacy with religious connotations among various pagan peoples in Europe (if I recall correctly - can’t be fucked to google that). So instead of co-opting the horse meat tradition it instead became shunned, in contrast to many other traditions which were integrated into Christianity


schleppylundo t1_ix99usw wrote

For a lot of religions providing a schedule and set of meanings for holidays feasts and festivals is arguably more important to how followers interact with the religion than almost any other factor. Especially in an agricultural society where those holidays and festivals frequently serve to remind people when planting and harvest seasons are beginning and ending, which is why most religions following solar calendars tend to have a few holidays near solstices and equinoxes, and even with lunar or lunar-solar calendars like Hebrew you tend to get fairly close shots to that part of the solar year.


lilwayne168 t1_ixag2u4 wrote

google the olmec people its widely believed they came way before the Aztecs and had very similar architecture and stone carving as pacific islanders and the religion mirrored the hindu beliefs. Many of the facial features of the carved statues resemble african features which people have also contemplated.


spiritsonacid t1_ix8h36y wrote

Thats pretty much Graham Hancocks argument in Ancient Apocalypse. Im pretty sure you can google and find some sources yourself...


Dawnawaken92 t1_ix8irl1 wrote

Ancient Apocalypse sounds interesting. I'm interested in the subject of pre-flood civilization. What could they have achieved. I wanna don't go off the deep end but like Atlantis and crystal tech. In the field of quantum science time crystals are becoming a real science. Basically perpetual motion engines. Wonder if the ancient could have achieved something similar. I watched a video over how the pyramid could have truly been a giant battery. They got down to the science of it. And it would have rung like a bell. Wonder what that coulda been used for. Link to real life time crystals


Landlubber77 t1_ix86zix wrote

Tlachihualtepetl is what my asshole says after I eat Cholula hot sauce, incidentally.


bogsnopper t1_ix9rpcn wrote

Not your fault, but definitely some misinformation here. I started down this rabbit hole by calculating the volume based on the dimensions you provided. Doing so shows Giza having a significantly larger volume (2.6 million cubic meters compared to 0.79 million for Cholula). Checking references on Wikipedia reveals that the “largest” claim is based on the overall complex and not on the pyramid itself. So saying “largest archaeological site of a pyramid” is correct but “largest pyramid by volume” is not.


Mind-Matters-Not OP t1_ix9tmmx wrote

TIL Giza pyramid is still the largest. Thank you!!!!


kissingdistopia t1_ixa9v2m wrote

I think on the show he mentioned it's the largest footprint for a pyramid.


dblattack t1_ixazblr wrote

When you go there they call it the largest pyramid by volume.. I think a recount is necessary.


dblattack t1_ixcma8m wrote

I think I discovered the issue here. The Cholula pyramid is largely a flat top. So the volume would be better represented as a cubic rectangle then a pyramid shape, which will drastically increase the volume calculation. Maybe they didn't actually finish the pyramid. It is said to be almost 2x the volume of Giza, and of course if you watch netflix there are numerous smaller pyramids hidden inside.


SEND_PUNS_PLZ t1_ix96a1r wrote

The most ridiculous part to me is that when the Spanish got to the site, all they saw was a religiously significant hill so they compulsively built a church right on top. So now there’s this awkward Spanish church on top of the excavated pyramid and they’re both historically significant so they have to share


FuriouSherman t1_ix9csl6 wrote

Christianity in a nutshell. Jesus' birthday was moved from summer to the end of December so it could co-opt the practices of Saturnalia, while most early Scandinavian churches were built at sites that were considered to be sacred in Norse mythology. The ability to adapt to and utilize local practices as so to make its own teachings and methods more palatable is one of the main reasons why Christianity is the world's most popular religion.


Frostbite76 t1_ix8hmkn wrote

I've been there. Went on a tour through the tunnels. That place was fascinating!


makesyoudownvote t1_ixa47yr wrote

It was also built 3500 years later.

It's absolutely fascinating to me how this parallel development happened. There is no evidence of communication between the Americas Eurasia Africa at this time.

For context:

This was built right around the same time Europe started building Castles. Windsor Castle wouldn't be built for another 300 years though.

China was in the Song dynasty and was building really tall Pagodas around this time. They weren't quite ready for their biggest push on The Great Wall of China, that would come about 300 years later, though some sections were already 1500 years old at this point.


thx1138- t1_ixb3acp wrote

I mean I think a pyramid is kind of an easy design to fall upon. It's what's inside and the layers that make them so amazing right?


SlowNLow68 t1_ixcjcbt wrote

The great pyramid of hot sauce.


firelock_ny t1_ixcp010 wrote

"Known to exist in the world today" makes me wonder if we know of bigger ones that were destroyed.


LordRumBottoms t1_ix8abil wrote

Watched an interesting special on the great pyramid and they suggested the 'guts' of the structure is just fill sand and not the bricks laid on the outside. Since no one has really explored the interior besides the tunnels and burial chambers etc. Would make sense. I wonder if all pyramids were just basically fancy exteriors and sand interiors.


AniMeu t1_ix8csou wrote

I’d assume that in the long run the sand-filled ones will detoriate. At least I think they wouldn’t be able to maintain the steep angles of some of the prominent pyramids (gizeh)


xlDirteDeedslx t1_ix8f5jk wrote

This is true because there's tons of pyramids in Egypt that are completely falling apart and you just don't ever see them on TV. There's around 113 pyramids in Egypt and we typically only see the early ones, the later ones were constructed more cheaply and fell apart.


LordRumBottoms t1_ix8fgn9 wrote

I would think so too, but it was an interesting theory....given how many blocks would have to be made and never seen on the just throw a bunch of whatever material you can find and coat it with those bricks. Plus it's not like they get a lot of rain there to eat away at it. Still something I wish I could go back and time and see how it was built. Why the hell am I getting downvoted?


Formal-Rain t1_ix8zjn6 wrote

Tla-chihoo-ate-petl almost getting it.


iPod3G t1_ix97hk0 wrote

I love their hot sauce.


WalkerBRiley t1_ix9d9tr wrote

Hmm ... it's a good start. Uh, yeah, it's definitely big alright. I just wonder if it's too big, y'know? I mean, are people gonna be remembering me or the pyramid?


ax083 t1_ix9hxqc wrote

TIL this sub runs off of Netflix documentaries.


EnnWhyCee t1_ix9r7s8 wrote

Lots of new TILs being posted once that new graham hancock show came out


saucyB52 t1_ixaonx1 wrote

last night i ate a tastey stuffie(quahog clam breading yum) and added some cholulua suace shots across the bow

and it was so tastey at 2 in tha mornin


Klin24 t1_ixbqs1j wrote

TIL they named a pyramid after the hot sauce.


rapiertwit t1_ix8ddi1 wrote

Yeah but "Giza" is a fuckload easier to say so...


clanggedin t1_ix98480 wrote

Cholula sauce is good, but I wouldn't built a pyramid or a temple dedicated to it.


HealthyBox5 t1_ixb27ii wrote

Just watched a documentary on this!

(Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix, ep. 3)


whatever369369 t1_ixbmo99 wrote

Why almost every culture was building pyramid ? It was some alien shit or geometry easy that way ,?


FuriouSherman t1_ix9c37q wrote

The Pyramid at Giza is the tallest pyramid in the world, however. It stands at 146.6 metres tall as opposed to the Pyramid at Cholula's 25 metre height.


dr_gymrat t1_ix9lzdc wrote

Been there. Not very impressive in person. Most of the pyramid is underground.


vladthemegainhaler t1_ix8rfrk wrote

Visocica in Bosnia and Rtanj in Serbia are literally confused for mountains.


blatantninja t1_ix94lgc wrote

Because they are.


vladthemegainhaler t1_ix9akgs wrote

Nah. Semir Osmanagic already did his part to empirically overturn the religion of modern archeology with his work at Visocica. Modern archeology can only counter with ad hominem. Rtanj will be next. It’s amazing people still believe the granite at Giza was cut with copper chisels. Long past the time to break the chains of the Darwinian-Abrahamic-Google-Elon-Musk mind prison.


jojojoy t1_ix9ecw3 wrote

> the granite at Giza was cut with copper chisels

That's not something that archaeologists are generally arguing for though.


Finnder_ t1_ixawa6j wrote

Are you alright man?

I knew what I was looking for. Hey there's this dude in the balkans who claims this mountain is actually a pyramid. But it totally isn't.

Like it's a goofy idea. So I came down here, check you guys out, see who you all are what you guys say about it...
>Long past the time to break the chains of the Darwinian-Abrahamic-Google-Elon-Musk mind prison.

You're pretty deep on the crazy there end eh bud?


acebandaged t1_ixb6d91 wrote

Can't tell if this is a troll or a disturbed individual. That Visocica sun energy stuff is seriously batshit though.