Submitted by 54_actual t3_zynfm7 in todayilearned
I was wondering about it too
Makes perfects sense. ML's 95 Thesus was equivalent to MLK's peaceful civil rights protests. They both questioned social and legal boundaries that endure to enrich certain people at the expense of other's civil rights. And they were both met with threats of violence and murder. Somethings don't change apparently.....
Just don’t ask the OG Luther what should be done with the Jews…
Luther made a very good argument about why Protestants shouldn't have saints, and is himself a very good argument why Protestants shouldn't have saints.
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Protestants were the ones who were persecuted in Europe and fled to America for safety right?
Checks notes
Oh Protestants were the ones going around fucking murdering everyone and when told to stop it, went to America to be able to keep killing witches.
You know protestants are also most of Northern Europe right? Many of the ones going to America were further offshoots that thought the general public wasn't hardcore enough, but the ones staying were also protestant and continue to be so today.
Persecution was mainly during the breakaway from Catholicism until the nations themselves turned on Catholicism.
Everyone burned witches though you might wonder why the people broken on the wheel is somehow never mentioned :(
We are getting off topic but Wheels were for traitors, robbers, rapists and murderers.
Fucking awful and slow way to die.
> Oh Protestants were the ones going around fucking murdering everyone and when told to stop it, went to America to be able to keep killing witches.
Bruh. There's ripping apart history and there's doing so because of reddit same think.
Importantly the protestants are an intensely varied group with dozens of creeds. Ranging from pacifists to millenarian militants. If you want an example of the pot calling the kettle black with said militants though, the catholic church is as well famous for persecuting people who were labelled witches, apostates, heretics, or any other seditious group.
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The "peasants war" took place at the same time and Luther advocated for slaughtering those who questioned the hierarchy of feudalism. Which then happened.
Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants%27_War
Martin Luther King is a nice name
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Agree.
Martin Luther was a huge antisemite.
Damn, almost like he lived in the middle ages. Did he also hold poor views on womens rights and gay people perhaps as well? Did Mr Kings views on certain matters conflict with modern standards?
In certain time periods some wideheld (horrible) beliefs are sadly widespread, but that doesn't mean one should disregards anything anyone has said or done throughout the entire span of history
His antisemitism was much worse than the norm at the time and was widely criticised. Understanding the roots of German antisemitism is a big part of confronting the history of the Holocaust. One seems to be much less popular than the other.
So everyone in middle ages wrote books denouncing the Jews and also founded all of protestantism.
Most people(atleast in europe) were antisemitic yes
he will still seen as an extreme antisemite, even for those times.
A cynical political leader would see antisemitism as a tool to get the support of idiots. That wasn't the case here. He started off thinking he could recruit Jews, then gave up and turned against them when that didn't work. This guy founded all of protestantism as it exists today so that baggage was built in from the foundation.
where did i say that? i never commented on his achievements. fucking weird reaction.
Sorry, it seemed like so many people wanted to defend medieval antisemitism.
no worries my dude
In those times, Jewish people were viewed as Christ killers and, by decree, were denounced and persecuted for their faith. As a people, we are more enlightened or at least we should be.
Being enlightened is a pretense for about 40% of people. Half of those will speak their mind in the company of people who look like them.
Actually, I'm truly enlightened. There's no pretense.
He literally helped inspire the fucking Holocaust. Don’t fucking whitewash his legacy.
Did he come to Hitler on Christmas eve like some fucking spirit, whispering into his ear or what?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther
Only because you are uninformed doesn't mean it is untrue. It is even in his wiki that he was a huge inspiration for German antisemitism.
Arminius was also used as a symbol of German unity by the nazis. The way I see it tho, they don't have too much to do with the Holocaust to a big extent. If it wasn't for them, the Nazis would have looked at another anti-Semite, which were obviously not that rare back in the day.
The Nazis were capable of reading.
Don't worry, in a few hundred years if you are remembered whatsoever, it will be about what a monster you were for some belief you hold now that they don't then.
Never respect any historical figure, since they were all morally grey at best which is not acceptable for a human to be.
There were non-antisemites that lived in Martin Luther’s time. You are not excused from evil just because you live in the past.
Well whatever it is that people are right about that you aren't today, be prepared for anything good about your life to be wiped away with whatever moral failing you and everyone around you don't understand.
You might cure cancer, but you also ate meat and had a pet dog and didn't even buy a hybrid right away, so you're fairly evil over all.
Good. You think I’d give a shit when I’m dead? If human morality has improved to the point that the life I’ve lived is looked at as monstrous, that’d be great! Luckily for me, I’ve never written diatribes defending the evils that still exist in our society as morally good, so the odds of me being singled out are slim, unlike Mr. “I Want To Do The Holocaust” Man.
>Luckily for me, I’ve never written diatribes defending the evils that still exist in our society as morally good, so the odds of me being singled out are slim, unlike Mr. “I Want To Do The Holocaust” Man.
So it's ok to be a piece of shit as long as you are quiet and small scale enough to not be remembered in particular. So that people won't know you to judge you only by the parts you were wrong about.
Why are you so amped to defend someone that inspired the Holocaust? I never did that and I think you know that. The problem is that he inspired evil that lasted far beyond his lifetime. That’s what makes him a particularly evil piece of shit.
But I don’t even care, if you find an example of someone that was great in other areas, but that there’s some evidence that they hated the Jews, by all means, judge the shit out of them. I will. I hold people from all time periods to the same moral standards. I hope people do the same for me after I die. I could not welcome it any more than I do.
Because you are completely blowing off every good thing he did or was responsible for. He wrote hateful shit that other later hateful people liked, and THOSE PEOPLE did bad shit with a whole lot of imagination and effort on their part.
He also was a major figure who struck a blow against a repressive and corrupt religious/political institution and the movement he inspired led to many of the ideas that form the foundation of liberalism (you know, individual people having rights because they are people?) which is the foundation of the moral philosophy you are adhering to and using to demonize him?
It's absolutely absurd what you expect of people.
As was (unfortunately) the style at the time
He was an all around piece of shit. When the peasants revolted against the injustice of feudalism, he sided with the nobles and advocated for slaughtering the insurgents. That is exactly what happened. I have no idea how anyone could see Luther as a role model.
That is most unfortunate.
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Just learned this in Steve Berry’s book The Bishop’s Pawn. The MLK parts of the book were the most interesting.
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I had no idea 😲 thanks for sharing! MLK is a real hero. RIP King
He hated Jewish people, belittled Rosa parks because she was a woman and beat his wife on several occasions. I don't have the proof but you can find it easily enough. Asshole.
ITT uninformed Americans glorifying an outspoken antisemite who argued for the suppression of the masses and feudalism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism
"The prevailing view[33] among historians is that Luther's anti-Jewish rhetoric contributed significantly to the development of antisemitism in Germany,[34] and in the 1930s and 1940s provided an ideal foundation for the Nazi Party's attacks on Jews"
Edit: My generalisation about "uninformed Americans" is propably unfair and deserves to be downvoted. Nonetheless, I remember a public discourse in Germany about Luther and his bad influences and I suspect that nothing of the sort happened in the US.
The original Martin Luther isn’t necessarily someone we like… unless you’re Lutheran I suppose. He’s just a historical figure. How is going “oh interesting that MLK was named after him” glorifying the dude?
I should have made myself clearer. My comment was directed at the people downvoting criticism of Luther and absolving him of his bad influence because of the time he lived in.
Also ITT, informed Americans refusing to condemn someone that literally helped inspire the fucking Holocaust, because “nobody in the past can have their ideology judged.”
Chris_TO79 t1_j26te0b wrote
Huh, I didn't know that either! I always wondered a bit about the Martin Luther part of his name.