Yeah, it's a real thing, but it's not backed up by science. It was discredited at least 50 years ago, so try to keep up.

It also works if you pretend you have an imaginary bag. It's hard to explain to the people watching though.

Sometimes, when you are writing for a movie or TV, you pull experience from reality.

>Yeah, it's a real thing

OK

> but it's not backed up by science

So, it's magic?

>try to keep up

How can we keep up when thing$ change everytime someone want$ to po$t a click bait article?

Hrm. UCLA Health says it is a thing, but this rando says isn’t…

…what to believe…what to believe…

From the article:

"The bottom line is, unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’re hyperventilating due to an anxiety attack, leave the paper bag maneuver to the TV writers."

Would love to read the 50+ year old studies you're referring to. All current recommendations are that using the "breathing into a bag" method works but should only be used if the hyperventilation is due to a panic attack. There are other things that can cause hyperventilation, in which case rebreathing like this can be dangerous.

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The line you quoted is implying my point exactly- that it works for hyperventilating during a panic attack. If you are NOT hyperventilating due to a panic attack, leave it to tv writers.

It's called hyperventilating, a symptom of which is that you breath rapidly and as a result, your body eliminates more carbon dioxide than it can produce. Breathing into a bag, where you exhale carbon dioxide, can somewhat ease this process as you inhale back a greater percentage of carbon dioxide than you would without the bag.

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I guess (without reading the article) it relates to hyperventilation and blood gases (oxygen saturation and co2 levels). So is the premise to rebreathe the expelled co2?

Wow

Yes, I also read the article. You are posting things in support of my argument. Let me explain since this is clearly wooshing right over you:

OP said “breathing in a paper bag works for hyperventilation during a panic attack.”

I said “breathing in a paper bag works for hyperventilation during a panic attack.”

You and the other person said “No guys, it says right here that it doesn’t work for hypoxemia.”

…

I think u got it

That only works for the anxiety, so only indirectly for the hyperventilation.

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Yes! That’s exactly it. Hyperventilation (particularly due to anxiety) messes up the delicate balance between O2 and CO2 levels in the blood, so rebreathing it helps restore that balance.

Don’t worry. They see the bag. They are imaginary too.

Tachypnea = alkalosis

Alkalosis = boops the H+ off Albumin

Ca++ = slides in albumin’s dm’s

Transient low Ca++ = tingle tangles

That's funny, I would say it works for the hyperventilation and indirectly on the anxiety

It works for the act of hyperventilating, it slows down your breathing and focuses you on something besides the panic, but doesn't have a direct effect on the balance of blood gases. The rebreathing of CO2 is what helps with that, and you obviously don't get that without a real bag.

I don't think we take in CO2 through our lungs. I might be wrong but I think it's just slowing down how much CO2 is breathed out and lowering the amount of oxygen taken in that increases CO2 in the blood back to regular levels. So slowing breathing is very similar to using a paper bag in how it works.

You're absolutely right, it's the lowering of oxygen levels (I was being a dumbass, my med school professor would smack me for this) When breathing in an actual bag, it just goes down faster.

Better is to pull your top over your face if a bag isn’t handy

why would you think it wasnt real?

They taught us this in Boy Scouts. My dad, a doctor, was always angry whenever this was pushed though. It may help someone mentally if they are hyperventilating from an anxiety attack, but it can cause harm in numerous other situations like if a person is having a heart attack or an asthma attack. A doctor or EMT would likely never have a patient breath into a paper bag.

And to stop hyperventilating would probably be a good idea too!

I always thought that they were huffing paint

That’ll be the placebo effect

Yeah of course, but it isn’t always as simple as that! The fight-or-flight response that gets activated during panic/anxiety attacks can be pretty potent, so it might take a while for someone to regulate their breathing again.

Probably because it provides a visual representation of controlling your breath rate

Need to have a chat with the limbic system

Why is it bad for us to eliminate too much CO2 ? I thought carbon dioxide was just a residue that we would want to eliminate

CO2 is also called carbonic acid. Breathing out too much of it changes the PH of the blood, and can cause dizziness.

You can simulate this by cupping your hands around your mouth if you’re desperate. I’ve done it.

That's part of it, but the bigger reason is the concentration of carbon dioxide in the blood. It's not that we need more oxygen, it's that we need less carbon dioxide.

It's a fine balance.

Also helps slow your breathing that helps retain CO2. There's a technique called square breathing where to exhale for 5 secs. Hold for 5. Inhale for 5 before holding ng again. The bag makes for a good physical representation.

CO2 isn't called carbonic acid. Carbonic acid is H2CO3. So, CO2 + H2O. CO2 combines with the water in your blood to produce it.

Ah, thanks. TIL.

Alright so I was told that this is incorrect (or at least only partially correct). I was told the main reason you breath into a bag during a panic attack is to make it easier to focus on your breathing. You can see the breath go in and out so you can pace and make sure you're not forgetting to exhale (which is a common reason why people feel like they can't breath during panic).

It can be both.

> Breathing into a paper bag is a technique that can help you regulate hyperventilation. It works by putting some of the lost carbon dioxide back into your lungs and body. This helps to balance oxygen flow in your body.

>However, breathing into a paper bag must be done properly and may not work for everyone. Medical research on using it to help hyperventilation is divided on whether it really works.

>Some case studies don’t recommend using this breathing technique.

>Other medical review studies find that breathing into a paper bag can help some patients with hyperventilation.

https://www.healthline.com/health/anxiety/breathing-into-a-paper-bag

Had a CT scan yesterday (post cancer checkup) and i thought the exact same thing when i had anxiety and was breathing into the mask. immediately calmed down too :)

💜

CO2 isn't just a waste product, it has a very important purpose of managing pH of our blood - something that is actually a lot more important for our body than O2 levels (we have a much greater tolerance for O2 changes than CO2)

The body is about balance (homeostasis) in basically everything

"lot more important" is probably the wrong way to put that both are essential to life.

There are a ton of things that are essential to life, but we can still create a hierarchy of importance based on various criteria such as tolerance to disruption of homeostasis.

We have very little tolerance for the disruption of CO2 homeostasis before our brain freaks out.

I did a mental health first aid course through St John Ambulance and the School Board, and the instructor said in absolute terms that this is a bad idea. When someone is hyperventilating, the last thing you want to do is make it harder for them to breathe.

His recommendation is that you give them a paper bag, but put a hole in it. The bag becomes a placebo for them because they see it as something they know is supposed to help them. That stops the hyperventilating because they're panicking and now feel comfortable. The hole is to help them keep breathing.

> However, it’s important to note that rebreathing is unsafe for certain people, particularly those with heart or lung problems. Having too little oxygen in the blood, which is known as hypoxemia, can share symptoms with an anxiety attack. These include shortness of breath, dizziness and rapid breathing. If someone experiencing hypoxemia practices rebreathing with a paper bag, they’re not only making their immediate condition worse, they’re putting themselves in danger. The bottom line is, unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’re hyperventilating due to an anxiety attack, leave the paper bag maneuver to the TV writers.

The last paragraph and really the last line are the most important here. While it may work, it will only work if you're actually having a panic attack. Otherwise you're just doing yourself harm.