Comments
Pragitya t1_j5srzsp wrote
I think this might be the first time I have read an online diagnosis was correct.
Training_Helpful t1_j5sxifs wrote
Because there is difference when a smart person reads things online from good sources vs soccer mom Karen
Pragitya t1_j5sxouh wrote
Tbh yes
HobgoblinKhanate1 t1_j5tfh2h wrote
What a beautiful story. Not too sad but had a happy ending anyway
intuser t1_j5tlj3o wrote
Good for you! What was the disease?
_Abe_Froman_SKOC t1_j5rfwa3 wrote
I’ve watched enough House to know that it’s probably Lupus.
The-Crawling-Chaos t1_j5s3tv8 wrote
It’s not lupus.
ToriYamazaki t1_j5svfjl wrote
It's never lupus.
_Abe_Froman_SKOC t1_j5u8hg5 wrote
Ah, then it must be Munchausen syndrome.
danielcw189 t1_j5y612h wrote
It was Lupus at least once
ugliestparadefloat t1_j5xhtsj wrote
Should probably just throw some drugs at it, might work, might kill ‘em who knows
casadecarol t1_j5rbmer wrote
Symptoms may be physical manifestations of psychiatric illnesses, maybe part of a poorly understood condition, may be caused by medication side effects or may be a disease we haven't yet recognized. There's more to it than just calling people nuts.
Poggse t1_j5s93xd wrote
I don't think they're all crazy. I think a lot of them are hypochondriacs and overly dramatic. Just like people are in every aspect of life.
Lyx4088 t1_j5sfhbo wrote
May you continue to be so blessed with your health you’re able to continue believing this. Medicine is constantly learning new things about the human body, identifying ways things go wrong, developing better testing and treatment, etc. Doctors are humans, and the sheer number of diseases out there coupled with unusual or atypical presentations means sometimes even diagnosable issues are missed far too long because it wasn’t on the doctor’s radar. Gender and ethnicity can absolutely play into this as well. Heart attacks can look different in women than men. Skin disorders can look different depending on the melanin in your skin, and it doesn’t always occur to a doctor to factor that in when they’re evaluating a skin condition. Despite having disorders with diagnostic criteria, sometimes the testing for them is garbage like with narcolepsy and idiopathic hypersomnia.
Personally? I spent over 15 years complaining to multiple doctors I couldn’t stay awake doing things like driving at night (because I’m not a careless idiot I avoided it to avoid hurting/killing myself or others), staying awake during movies, falling asleep in classes, struggling with insomnia at night, having weird episodes of feeling like a whacky wavy inflatable arm tube man, etc. It took 15 years for a therapist to go hold up this is not normal. Have you ever been evaluated for narcolepsy?? A sleep study and MSLT later and 15 years of why I can’t stay awake are explained. I literally had to find a sleep clinic that would do consultations and set up a study if deemed necessary because my primary at the time wouldn’t refer me anywhere despite having all of these symptoms and an epsworth score that put me in the severe sleepiness range. The evidence was right there and I was even given an appropriate screener that should have resulted in immediate referral to a sleep medicine specialist but got an eh I’m not too worried. Want to know the side effects of having fragmented sleep? Increased depression and anxiety symptoms, brain fog, increased sensitivity and less capacity to modulate pain, propensity for obesity, heart issues, blood pressure issues, and a whole host of other really problematic health issues. Sleep disorders are horrifically under diagnosed and can play a huge role in worsening and leading to other chronic health issues.
The testing for narcolepsy and idiopathic hypersomnia though? It’s shit. Two different sleep medicine specialists can read the MSLT study and come out with a different perception of any REM episodes, and the same patient can take the test on two different days and have wildly different results. It’s only within the last 10-15 years that science has learned narcolepsy type 1 (that is the one with cataplexy where people lose muscle tone experiencing sudden strong emotions because their brain triggers a REM state) is likely an autoimmune disorder leading to an orexin deficiency. They’ve known about narcolepsy for decades and have studied it for a really long time, but very little was known (and even less is known about narcolepsy type 2 let alone idiopathic hypersomnia), mediocre treatments to control the symptoms have been available, and there is still not a great diagnostic tool to identify it. And these are with specialists. GPs are rarely even looking for it or sleep disorders in general unless someone is complaining of snoring at night and being exhausted.
Did you know a symptom of hypothyroidism can be foot pain? It has to do with how the thyroid hormone impacts tissues in the body, but that foot pain can present at sub clinical levels on standard testing. Foot pain is a pretty common problem, but doctors rarely think thyroid related to it without glaring other symptoms. Very low vitamin D levels, which in the era of wear sunscreen and stay out of the sun to prevent skin cancer, can cause hellacious nerve pain that presents more similarly to other disorders. It took over a year and multiple trips to the ER with trigeminal neuralgia like pain for a doctor to finally test my sister’s vitamin D levels. They were critically low. She loves being outside in the sun and we grew up in a very sunny state. There was no reason for doctors to think vitamin D with her tan. Someone finally said let’s just check it anyway.
So yeah. Presenting with health complaints a doctor can’t figure out doesn’t mean something isn’t wrong. And saying those patients are being overly dramatic hypochondriacs diminishes what people are going through and how they’re suffering.
Poggse t1_j5snve7 wrote
Your personal example isn't representative of the larger population
OneObi t1_j5spu1a wrote
And yours are?
Poggse t1_j5sxlqr wrote
It's not my examples. It's the world. Ask any doctor 🤷♂️
Lyx4088 t1_j5tcdbm wrote
It’s not just me. Studies back up women take longer to get diagnosed than men for the same disease. By years.
https://www.webmd.com/women/news/20180607/why-women-are-getting-misdiagnosed
Many diseases just take a fucking eternity to get diagnosed properly.
Endometriosis is one that takes forever: https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/endometriosis
Autoimmune diseases can be really tricky to diagnosis and can take a ridiculously long time, sometimes upwards of 10 years for some people: https://creakyjoints.org/research/getting-diagnosed-with-autoimmune-disease/
The average time for diagnosis of a rare disease is 4-5 years, and during that time it’s often hell for patients: https://genomemedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13073-022-01026-w
And since I mentioned my own person story that you shit on in favor of anecdotal evidence from your doctor, narcolepsy takes on average 7 years to diagnose from symptom onset: https://narcolepsynetwork.org/about-narcolepsy/narcolepsy-fast-facts/
Do a tiny bit of research and you can see your bold statements about hypochondriacs and people being overly dramatic are dead wrong and your doctor is absolutely ignorant about what patients go through and likely part of the problem.
Poggse t1_j5ukgfw wrote
Because they don't keep statistics on fakers 🤣
You don't know how stats work. That's fine.
Lyx4088 t1_j5us7hv wrote
I’m well aware of how stats work. Are you? I don’t think so, because if you were, you wouldn’t be saying quite literally millions of people are faking and putting themselves in enormous medical debt just to support the faking. People don’t work like that. Not having an easy to diagnose illness doesn’t mean you’re faking. And things like autoimmune diseases, endometriosis, heart issues, cancers, etc all have hard metrics to point to in order to support the diagnosis. Genetic diseases have literal genetic differences you can point to and say this is why your body is having issues because you’re not manufacturing this enzyme, your body can’t process this food item, this biochemical pathway is making a mistake at this point, etc.
Also, there are statistics out there for people faking. It’s pegged at less than 1% of patients, or in practical numbers, 6.8 patients per 100,000 patients. That is far, far less than people who struggle to get diagnosed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK518999/#article-25371_s4
Poggse t1_j5usl61 wrote
If a patient complains enough, the doctor will prescribe something. That's why drug reps make more in a year than many people make in a lifetime. Doesn't mean the patients have actual issues.
It's a self perpetuating system
Lyx4088 t1_j5utbbm wrote
A doctor prescribing something doesn’t mean insurance will cover it. For someone who was insistent a personal story was non-representative, who was then confronted with multiple statistics across numerous diseases and hard data numbers, you sure are making a whole lot of personal claims with no evidence to back it.
Edit: it’s also worth noting that a doctor not diagnosing a patient with something doesn’t mean they’re prescribing something anyway. You’re mixing up an inability to diagnose with prescription medication use. Though doctors do and can prescribe medication when a diagnosis is not clear, it’s more likely a doctor won’t prescribe anything.
Poggse t1_j5utwd2 wrote
There isn't data tracking over prescribed and over diagnosed patients. Because that wouldn't indict doctors of crimes.
"100% of unreported crime goes unsolved"
See how easy it is to make stats fit a narrative?
Especially for something that cannot be quantified with numbers like pain sensitivity
Lyx4088 t1_j5uuh2v wrote
Wrong again. Yes there is. https://www.orlandohealth.com/content-hub/doctors-sometimes-prescribe-drugs-patients-dont-need
Antibiotics are the biggest culprit of being prescribed when not warranted. That absolutely has issues, but the people pressuring their doctor for antibiotics are not the people who are going back time after time over years to a number of doctors trying to figure out what is going on with them. Those are not the people who are going undiagnosed with symptoms that can’t be currently (emphasis on currently) be explained by the doctor overseeing their care.
Poggse t1_j5uv4qw wrote
Ok now do the opioid epidemic.
Or maybe medicinal Marijuana before it was made recreationally legal.
Lyx4088 t1_j5uzvae wrote
What do those have to do with anything? A patient coming to a doctor looking for answers to what they’re struggling with does not mean they’re faking. The opioid epidemic was caused by doctors and pharmaceutical companies underplaying the addiction risks for far too long. That has nothing to do with patients who can’t get diagnosed. Pain is a common symptom of many diseases, but having pain doesn’t mean drug seeking. And if you’d bother to read anything (because clearly you’re not) you’d see that doctors are not prescribing pain medications when not warranted based on the presenting complaint to a huge extent, and that is even more true in todays world where they’re even going after pharmacies for not controlling opioid medications better and verifying abuse. Trying to discuss opioids in this context isn’t even the same thing.
https://undiagnosed.hms.harvard.edu
And medical marijuana? What does that have to do with anything. You seem to be making an assumption that the people who are going undiagnosed are walking away with either an opioid prescription or using medical marijuana with zero data to support it. Stop distracting from the fact that you are absolutely wrong in your baseless assumption people who are undiagnosed after visiting a primary doctor are faking.
Poggse t1_j5v07p1 wrote
Opioid and Marijuana prescriptions shown that the system us abused and gamed by patients. If patients can lie to get drugs, why wouldn't they lie to get fussed over and get personal attention that they're starved for? Have you met old people?
Lyx4088 t1_j5v0kmh wrote
That has nothing to do with people not being diagnosed by a primary doctor. Seriously. Do some reading on what is actually going on and how deficient medicine truly is rather than making asinine assumptions and equating correlation with causation and direct effect. You’re also misrepresenting the opioid epidemic as a patient problem which is absolutely not the case.
[deleted] t1_j5v14a5 wrote
[removed]
Lyx4088 t1_j5tcovx wrote
Seriously? Have you even bothered to look at the research? The clear answer is no because if you had you’d know my experiences and the experiences of people I know are fairly typical. If you still want to double down, feel free to check out my links below that reference studies on various diseases and how long it takes to get diagnosed. You’ll see what I described in my “non-representative” personal experiences is in fact very typical and representative of getting diagnosed with a chronic illness.
Poggse t1_j5ukwpy wrote
So what's the data and research on fakers and overly dramatic attention seekers?
tyedyezzz t1_j5sa4z3 wrote
There is a lot more to figure out. It's a shame that people in pain are dismissed like this. Causes them unnecessary extra pain.
Poggse t1_j5snrh7 wrote
Idk what to tell you man. Try working customer service
tyedyezzz t1_j5sytac wrote
I think we could be nice to people working in customer service and not dismiss people who say they're in pain at the same time.
Poggse t1_j5syy6g wrote
I'm saying if you worked customer service, you'd realize how much people complain about the smallest, most trivial aspects of life.
tyedyezzz t1_j5sz3z6 wrote
I would imagine you also have times when you're the customer and the person you have to deal with in customer service is too dismissive, or where through no fault of the person in customer service, their options to help the customer are too limited. You may feel that what you need help with is valid.
Poggse t1_j5szeme wrote
That doesn't mean you have to whine and throw a pity party. That's what we're talking about. Over reactions to mild inconveniences.
tyedyezzz t1_j5szlmw wrote
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how upsetting it can be when someone thinks you're not in pain and you are.
Poggse t1_j5szr1k wrote
Ok but that's clearly not what I was initially referring to
tyedyezzz t1_j5szw5f wrote
You said that a lot of people whine and are hypochondriacs. I made a comment about how important it is not to dismiss people and label them whiners and hypochondriacs.
Poggse t1_j5t05qx wrote
For every person with real pain, there are multiple dramatic actors
tyedyezzz t1_j5t0bnr wrote
Even if that was true, clearly those people need a different kind of help. And if you are a medical professional, I think it's a shame if you assume most people are faking because you've encountered someone 'faking'. So much is incredibly hard to diagnose.
It's what stops a lot of people from going to the doctor in the first place.
Poggse t1_j5t0na1 wrote
What they need is to grow up. They are attention seekers. It's obnoxious, tedious and woefully transparent.
tyedyezzz t1_j5t0s2n wrote
But there are so many stories of people who medical professionals couldn't find anything wrong with for a long time and it took a lot of willpower and mental toughness for the people to keep pursuing a diagnosis, and some eventually get a diagnosis. So it isn't woefully transparent.
Poggse t1_j5t0yhq wrote
It is when it is, which is more often than not.
tyedyezzz t1_j5t15k6 wrote
Here's hoping you never have any number of aches and pains that all kinds of people have with no explanation. Because if the person you reach out to is like you, there's no end to your suffering in sight. In fact, they're going to really emotionally drain you too.
Poggse t1_j5ujyzr wrote
Literally everyone has aches and pains. You don't realize that because you can't empathize with others.
"Mine are the worst tho!!!! Waaaa"
That's exactly what I'm referring to
tyedyezzz t1_j5uqnx8 wrote
Often aches and pains do seem worse than others' but there isn't a diagnosis for it.
Poggse t1_j5urnkq wrote
It's called being a pussy. We all hurt everyday. Welcome to life.
tyedyezzz t1_j5us1bx wrote
Some of us hurt more than others.
Poggse t1_j5usbar wrote
Which is why fakers are such an issue. If you know the lime to wait at a clinic is going to be hours just because a bunch of whiny narcissists are clogging up the clinic, you don't bother going. Same with hospitals.
tyedyezzz t1_j5usklx wrote
Or if you have a legitimate pain and are constantly dismissed and have no option than to keep pressing the issue because you're in unbearable pain, then it's a great shame all your time is wasted having to convince people to believe you.
Poggse t1_j5ustzr wrote
Less than 1% of patients are determined to be fakers, so your argument doesn't hold up against stats.
tyedyezzz t1_j5ut64a wrote
"For every person with real pain, there are multiple dramatic actors."
You said that in this thread.
Poggse t1_j5utdcg wrote
Yeah, doctors over prescribe and over diagnose because they are paid to do that by big pharma. What's your point
tyedyezzz t1_j5utm3s wrote
You're arguing with 'stats' but now you're saying don't pay attention to 'stats'.
Poggse t1_j5uu4vk wrote
Stats are made by companies with agendas. Stats are advertising. They aren't representative of reality.
tyedyezzz t1_j5uua5i wrote
"Less than 1% of patients are determined to be fakers, so your argument doesn't hold up against stats."
Why is this important to you then?
Poggse t1_j5uuvor wrote
Because a doctor is always going to diagnose and prescribe. That's how they make money.
So if they determine someone is a faker, it must be an extremely egregious and obvious example that warrants no diagnosis or prescription.
But of course, it's very easy to say the magic words to get the doctor to open up their prescription pad.
It's like you have no idea that there's an opioid epidemic.
Or how medical Marijuana laws worked before recreational weed was available.
People are constantly gaming the system. If you are too naive to accept that, then I have a bridge to sell you.
tyedyezzz t1_j5uwhxj wrote
If you look at the OP, it says that 1/4 people who visit a GP have physical conditions that cannot be explained. Whether you agree with the stats or not, I'm not sure. But that's the post we've met under.
Poggse t1_j5ux06g wrote
That won't stop a doctor from giving them drugs or fussing over them, which is what fakers ultimately want.
tyedyezzz t1_j5ux82d wrote
"Because a doctor is always going to diagnose and prescribe. That's how they make money."
So I think we can remove 'diagnose' from this.
Poggse t1_j5uxbyg wrote
Why?
tyedyezzz t1_j5uxgi2 wrote
Because if a condition can't be explained, it can't be diagnosed, to my understanding.
Poggse t1_j5uxkly wrote
They'll just diagnose whatever makes money and/or gets the patient to fuck off.
tyedyezzz t1_j5uxx9b wrote
But the OP says 1/4 people who visit a GP have medical conditions that can't be explained. So if you accept that, that's not quite what's happening.
Poggse t1_j5uy9pb wrote
Just because it can't be explained doesn't mean they won't get drugs.
And if they're not after drugs, they're likely just starved for attention. Nothing makes them feel more important than a sympathetic doctor asking them about their life like they matter.
JustAPoorPerson t1_j5shie3 wrote
Ah yes 25% of those visiting the doctor must be hypercondriacs
Poggse t1_j5so15u wrote
I mean, have you met people? They are perpetual victims. They love one upping, especially with respect to suffering.
Meeple_person t1_j5ssf0l wrote
It could have a lot to do with health anxiety. People have a lot of access to information, stories, news reports etc etc than they ever used to. Those receiving this saturation of information can start to convince themselves that they have whatever it is they've read. Becomes a self fulfilling condition where they feel ill even though they aren't and it becomes impossible to tell because logic has long departed the scene.
happygiraffe404 t1_j5svoio wrote
Every couple of years, previously unknown conditions are newly identified, understood, and treated. If everyone was like you, medicine would never advance. People who have sezuires would all be locked in asylums or sent for exorcisms.
Poggse t1_j5sxp2d wrote
Because that's what i was referring to /s
Clever_Mercury t1_j5sjg8o wrote
Well don't worry, if you're a woman they'll just tell you, "it's anxiety."
JimBobMcFantaPants t1_j5tvzws wrote
Or hormones
feetandballs t1_j5ybfw7 wrote
The daily “panic attacks” I was having went away once I had a couple of seizures, got an epilepsy diagnosis and got on an anticonvulsant. Just a coincidence, right? I’m a guy, though.
LiveinTroyNY t1_j66j5tw wrote
Me too!
feetandballs t1_j66k2xp wrote
It means a lot to me to know I’m not the only one. Thanks!
LiveinTroyNY t1_j68ivhk wrote
Yup. Lamotrigin worked for me. What I thought were panic attacks were partial complex seizures. My brain would be registering a smell that I never could place (cuz it was in my brain not in the air), then the panic attack would hit. The most memorable one was while I was giving a final presentation in a law school class. Managed to finish it and dipped to go curl up in a corner in the hallway.
feetandballs t1_j68nm7b wrote
I’m on keppra which helps, but the rage side effect they warn about is so real. My partial complex seizures would be in the mornings right when I woke up. I felt an indescribable feeling that overwhelmed my senses and made me curl up and squeeze my eyes shut. I’m impressed you could give a presentation! Glad you’re doing better now.
cesiuum t1_j5s08qj wrote
Maybe the GPs are overworked and don't have enough time for a good inspection?
ToriYamazaki t1_j5svlwx wrote
On top of those GPs that a just garbage, shouldn't be doctors, but are practicing anyway for the money and don't actually GAF?
OwnLingonberry413 t1_j5svuqr wrote
Outside of America doctors actually don't make as much as you might think
Excellent_Taste4941 t1_j5u9nt5 wrote
They do in many places, and they are shitty
The world is not divided by american greedy doctors and selfless amazing doctors everywhere else
OwnLingonberry413 t1_j5uanjh wrote
No, however the stereotype of the rich doctor comes from American doctors. Most doctors really don't make a lot. I know docs who live with their parents while working as a surgeon. You have to keep in mind med school costs a lot of money so even if you are making money you're still most likely in debt. You also don't make as much being a resident and you have to pay a certain patient insurance if I'm not mistaken. And besides that, in most places you just don't make that much money. Jobs some people tend to look down on can make a lot more money. There are plumbers driving ferraris these days!
Excellent_Taste4941 t1_j5ulncv wrote
World is vast mate
RadarOReillyy t1_j64z9jz wrote
What do you call a person who finished medical school in the bottom of their class?
Doctor.
ToriYamazaki t1_j6706io wrote
Bad doctor.
Paradox711 t1_j5ri2zw wrote
Or I would suggest that more often than not, the NHS has insufficient resources and time to actually diagnose these illnesses. Because of this, often it’s all they can do to treat the symptoms and leave you with platitudes.
It’s a sad state of affairs, 2 times in my life I’ve suffered with some very extreme and unusual symptoms and been hospitalised. Only to be told “Hm, we’ll isn’t that odd… we’ll run an MRI/some blood work. Well that wasn’t quite enough to really tell us anything… so have this medication and let us know if it gets worse. Off you go now”. The problem is that waiting lists to see specialist consultants within the NHS at the moment can run upwards of a year. So the GP can’t help, and the consultants are too busy, and by the time you’ve seen them unless it’s a persistent issue it may be missed.
After all that it took 15 years and several expensive private doctors to actually find out what the cause was.
That’s just my experience, and perhaps I’m letting it overshadow the point of the post. But I know very well im not the only one with that experience.
HobgoblinKhanate1 t1_j5tg935 wrote
I also want to point out something people miss. There’s actually not much they can do for you for a lot of things. It’s not a case of “I’m fucked fix me”, that’s why people get ill and die every day. We can’t actually do anything anyway
Paradox711 t1_j5thbda wrote
What do you mean?
machisuji t1_j5twg8t wrote
Most of the treatments we have simply treat the symptoms. Say you have a viral lung infection. Not much they can do. Just give you maybe painkillers and stuff to surpress coughing too much. But the actual healing has to be done by the body and what ever they give you doesn't actually help with that. Just makes the time til you're healed more bearable.
Though with other things like a bacterial infection they can help by giving antibiotics.
substantial-freud t1_j5vhwpu wrote
Anti-viral drugs are a thing.
machisuji t1_j5vigew wrote
True but you won’t get any for the flu.
Alternative-Flan2869 t1_j5spk9l wrote
At least they say “I don’t know.” instead of pretending they do, and start shooting from the hip prescribing expensive hit-or-miss procedures, treatments and drugs.
fish4096 t1_j635t42 wrote
no. they say : it's nothing it will go away on it's own. if it doesnt in half a year, book another appointment (good luck with that!)
Landlubber77 t1_j5rva3y wrote
Cross Silverstone off the bucket list, I'll stick with Spa.
Cross_examination t1_j5sfy5c wrote
How about Monza!?
Landlubber77 t1_j5t1htt wrote
Monza is fine, just not sure I could stand the constant Ferrari circle jerk going on.
Cross_examination t1_j5t42fi wrote
I cannot stand knowing in advance what a fantastic car they have and thinking all the possible scenarios to mess it up
Landlubber77 t1_j5t4mg5 wrote
Some of their pit/tire strategy last season seemed like they were sabotaging themselves intentionally. Total clusterfuck.
SandwitchCoveness t1_j5sygjo wrote
Yep, fibromyalgia!
JimAsia t1_j5tevre wrote
Humans have a very complex relationship between their mental and physical health. It is not surprising that symptoms arise that are a result of psychological stresses rather than physical malady. I would suspect that a number of these people with unexplained symptoms could be treated with more extensive diagnosis than a trip to a GP who is probably seeing far too many patients in one day.
Alba-Indy t1_j5uohkr wrote
Psycho-somatic illness is surprisingly common and a very misunderstood condition even by medical staff.
[deleted] t1_j5v4w7m wrote
A lot of undiagnosed symptoms end up undiagnosed because so many symptoms apply to so many different diseases and issues and often the cost to diagnose only for the treatment to be over the counter meds, prescription drugs that can be given for even vague symptoms and not necessarily a diagnoses or lifestyle changes.
But there's def a lot of misunderstanding about psycho-somatic illnesses, including that this doesn't happen simply because "you're crazy" or "you're making this up". There's a huge misunderstanding of just how many physical symptoms anxiety can actually cause- these symptoms can actually be truly real and caused by the effects of increased levels of stress and anxiety on the body. It's part of why we need such a healthier readjustment of mindset when it comes to talking about anxiety because so many people learn to only feel shame when they're told it "must be anxiety".
Alba-Indy t1_j5vr0ec wrote
If you have an interest in this try a book by Dr Suzanne O’Sullivan “ It’s all in your head”. It gives an amazing insight into the subject. She also happens to be my dads doctor but that’s by the by.
[deleted] t1_j5vtfjd wrote
oh cool! I'll have to check that out. I've been on all sides of the coin- have gone through wild goose chases only to find out something was legit wrong, have gone through them to find out it was something simple(like when I finally found out I had like, almost no B12 or vitamin D levels and that's why I felt like utter dogshit...that was a time). I've also learned a LOT about anxiety and panic these past few years and now that I'm more aware of that in general, I'm often amazed at the physical symptoms it can cause. But it took a lot of reworking of how I've been taught about what having 'anxiety' means to be accepting of that.
Alba-Indy t1_j5vz0v3 wrote
Genuinely sorry to hear you’ve been through that. It all kind of feeds into itself and can become a self fulfilling prophecy in a way. Very hard to think straight and find a way round it when anxiety is through the roof. Watching my dad go through the shit he’s had to deal with ,and is still dealing with ,has been so difficult. (Wracked with pain, pseudo seizures, personality changes, anxious as hell,etc.etc.). “All in his head”. I’m a health care professional and had never heard of fn pseudo seizures! Thought he was just having everyone on. I knew they weren’t “real” having seen lots of actual seizures, but couldn’t get my head round the fact that to him they are genuine. Total head fuck. His doctor is amazing though and has been brilliant at explaining things to my dad and especially my mum who has to deal with his stuff every day. He has made great progress at times, then falls back. Sorry to go on but I think I needed to get some shit off my chest.🤪
[deleted] t1_j5w00ke wrote
oh wow!! It's really amazing what our mind can convince us of- either convince us and make us feel like something is happening or actually subconsciously causes that thing. The human body is honestly just bizarre.
FluffySharkBird t1_j5vn0ay wrote
Because when a doctor misdiagnoses a physical illness as "just anxiety" the patient knows they'll just be thrown away and all the money they JUST spent on the doctor will just be thrown away. The doctor just pushes the patient to a therapist and doesn't do anything to fix why someone feels sick and especially doesn't help people WHO DON'T FEEL ANXIOUS.
[deleted] t1_j5vstn5 wrote
Again, like said sometimes people really do have many real symptoms that could be 'something' but the cost of diagnosing to pinpoint is usually not realistic vs being able to treat the symptoms. Not saying I agree with it, but that's often why you're not going to get a life-changing diagnosis from a 15 minute GP visit.
For the many people who do have very real anxiety, often they are not conciously aware that what they're feeling is anxiety. Even if you've had anxiety for years you might not be. People especially do not understand how anxiety can cause very real physical symptoms, which are legit and can cause you pain and discomfort and could need to be treated. For example, if you have high blood pressure and heart issues caused by stress and anxiety those are very real problems that need to be treated, but there may not be a technical 'heart problem' to diagnose(which is a good thing! To your point it's really because of how much we(looking at you,America pay for health care that it almost feels more "worth it" to have something wrong than to be told we might have some symptoms and could legit not feel well but nothing dire is going on, because of the cost)
On a side note of unexplained symptoms, annual blood work really needs to be more affordable and promoted. Having just one value in your bloodwork off, something as simple as low B12 or iron or vitamin D(which is super common!), could cause a whole host of scary symptoms, but often it's not something a GP is going to casually suggest because blood work.
herbw t1_j5wpx54 wrote
Do you have a coupla good scientific medical references for the above? I see no medical terms in the above.
Cause it sounds like off the cuff.
[deleted] t1_j5wy3oz wrote
You've never heard that anxiety causes physical symptoms? Just type that into google and endless topics and references come up. It's not any kind of new-age BS. It's literally how anxiety works. To claim that is 'off the cuff' is actually hugely insulting to people with anxiety and very much feeds into why people feel defeated about something that is actually going on with them and they need help for. The symptoms aren't made up in your head- having symptoms caused by anxiety and panic attacks mean that something very real is going on inside your brain, activating stressors and fight or flight and causing physical effects. It's not a conscious act of simply making up problems.
even more about anxiety symptoms
even more about how it's not in your head because anxiety is real and causes real things
how anxiety and shock affect human cognition and perception
I could literally sit here all night pasting information.
Take a trip to your local ER and watch how many heart diagnostics they do every day over problems that turn out not related directly to the heart at all- but the patient was having very real symptoms that they physically present with and it shows up in their vitals and even on EKGs. It means you're having an anxiety or panic attack that feels just like a heart attack. Your brain actually gets confused and your body starts to react like you are having a physical heart problem. Doesn't mean you made it up, but it could mean you have a mind problem causing a heart problem, not a heart problem causing a heart problem. But that's not often how it's described to people, and they're left being made to feel like they just made up having a heart attack and went to the ER cause they got "too worried".
herbw t1_j5zsn32 wrote
Look, was a practicing MD for 40 yrs., psych and clinical Neuroscience, American Bd. of Psych/Neuro accredited. Yer preachin to the choir. Mental illnesses do that which is why they are illnesses. Bad outcomes.
Sure they don't eat right, fatty foods, get overweight and get heart disease? All the time. Smoking the same. People make lifestyle mistakes all the time which have bad health consequences. Nothin new there.
But Schumaker was clear about those. Delusions are the commonest human mental illnesses. and knowin that we can get rid of much of what you've written.
Sad thing is most people know they have problems but can't break out of them very easily.
That's why Whitehead's Breakout methods are so good." Almost anything, he averred, which breaks us out of our current ways of doing things, is a good thing.
https://jochesh00.wordpress.com/2019/06/06/the-break-outs-roots-of-growth-unlimited-creativities/
[deleted] t1_j608n4e wrote
Anxiety and depression are the most common (commonest is not a word, MD) mental illnesses in the world, not delusion disorder. Delusions can be a symptom of anxiety and depression, but this does not mean that delusion didn't cause a physical symptom. Again, in the very common case of anxiety and panic bringing people to the ER with heart problems, it's a mind problem causing a heart issue. If the mind problem is not treated, it can continue to physically affect the heart. This does not mean the heart problem was never real, but the mind was plagued with so much anxiety or panic that it causes a physical effect. Your mind is tricked, but that trick results in actual physical results that can be seen on EKGs and in your vitals. To claim that because a delusion must mean the patient is making up everything in their head and therefore even the physical symptoms are not real, is unhelpful and dangerous. It's especially unhelpful when it is not even properly explained to the patient how anxiety can cause these symptoms.
I'm sure, random redditor with questionable grammar who quotes a wordpress blog as evidence, I'm sure you used to be a doctor. However, doctor who insist they must be right because they are MDs, they are accredited, and therefore they are Smart and should be believed can really do more harm to their patients than good. In current practice, evidence based practice is used and built on, and we acknowledge that what we know about things like anxiety have greatly evolved in the last 10 years, let alone 40. Psychology is an ever-evolving field, and to effectively understand and treat patients, you must evolve with it.
None_too_Soft t1_j5rob4v wrote
They can usually be explained, it's just that it's not the diagnosis they were hoping for
Medium-Ordinary3032 t1_j5t5him wrote
Are we sure this isn’t just older men being dishonest about what happened?
CurrentSpaces t1_j5ti9yj wrote
Some of these unexplained symptoms are rare, difficult to make diagnoses, but the vast majority are transient, harmless, “junk” symptoms we all experience which eventually disappear.
Think: “…that stomach ache, was it the sashimi from yesterday?” Or “how did I sleep last night, my neck is killing me!”
Key thing for GPs to do in vast majority of cases is make sure there are no “red flags” suggesting something dangerous (eg. early cancer) and then provide reassurance, offer symptom relief, and get out of the way of the body doing its thing.
Lastly, also need to take others symptoms and suffering seriously… just because it’s not medically explainable doesn’t mean it isn’t affecting someone. Make sure to offer to revisit if things change or worsen, and show you care. If things persist, think harder and get another opinion.
wadewad t1_j5tmk2p wrote
it's called being bri'ish
gorge_orwoll OP t1_j5to5iu wrote
The symptoms of being british are so severe that it can always be diagnosed
[deleted] t1_j5ut3hg wrote
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herbw t1_j5wp324 wrote
We can only diagnose causes of 50% of nerve injuries, either. That creates huge incomes for Neurologists , too. Half our incomes, including EMGs from those. 1 academic teaching MD, told me there was no money in neuro. I laughed all the way to the bank. He didn't do EMG's. $1250/patient, do 4 of those a day when able.
Physician heal thyself. I got 1 of those. Only things which KO those chronic pains are opiates which make me sick. or good "O"s with a good woman. I prefer the natural pain control methods..
fatDaddy21 t1_j5red7y wrote
Maybe they just go to crap GPs that need to 'practice' medicine some more.
[deleted] t1_j5rplwp wrote
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Fair_Border4142 t1_j5rei4o wrote
Just sort of sound like the UK has shit doctors
Juicylucyfullofpoocy t1_j5sjcbv wrote
Any doctor with any sense moves abroad for the much better wages when qualified…
garlopf t1_j5rjj8j wrote
Correction: they can be explained, but the gp just cant be bothered and/or isn't capable of determine the cause. Their mission is to keep people working, if the symptoms or condition does not interfer with the patient's work then better not spend tax dollars on a wild goose chase. This might be the best argument against free universal health care.
[deleted] t1_j5r8oub wrote
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2planetvibes t1_j5r8xsc wrote
Psychosomatic symptoms don't quite work this way. For example sometimes you feel stressed at work and get a tummyache--that tummyache is real, linked to your stress response, and technically the stress is in your head. The person didn't believe they had IBS and suddenly develops a tummyache, they were stressed and had a physical response.
Lileowastaken t1_j5symig wrote
My Crohn's Disease is triggered by stress a lot of the time. Stress is caused by things that are "all in the head". My Crohn's Disease is therefore all in the head and I shouldn't worry that my intestines are completely fucked and I've thrown up my own shit before due to how fucked they are.
Runner_one t1_j5sg4ge wrote
Happens in the US too. I once had a reoccurring illness for several years that no doctor could diagnose.
Finally, I learned online that some of my symptoms could be caused by a rare condition linked to Africa.
I went to the doctor and requested that he test me for that condition, he refused, saying it was impossible for me to have that condition since it only occurred in people who had spent time in Africa and I had not been to Africa, plus the test was expensive. A second doctor also refused, saying that it could not be the cause. I also suspect they thought I was a hypochondriac.
Finally the third doctor agreed to the test, and bingo, I was infected. Though the condition was linked to Africa I suspect I picked up the condition on my trip to Honduras a few years earlier.
Treatment was a rather simple drug regimen, and except for a few temporary gastrointestinal side effects I have never been troubled again.