Submitted by ChadExtra t3_10iuu73 in todayilearned
Reply to comment by Laumser in TIL that Titanic crewman Herbert Pitman made an attempt to row his lifeboat over to rescue people in the water, but was overruled by the other occupants of the boat, who were worried about people swarming them and duly complied. Pitman said that this haunted him throughout his life. by ChadExtra
Have you ever been in cold water before? I mean freezing water. Have you been in it in 1912 clothes? If your boat was right there at the beginning, maybe yeah. This guy wanted to turn his boat around and go back. That's plenty of time for people to get into the later stages of hypothermia. And while yes hypothermia was not as well understood back then (unfortunately thanks to Nazis, it is now)people still knew cold=bad.
>Have you ever been in cold water before?
I have, yes.
>I mean freezing water.
Yes. In glacial flows on the coast of Greenland and Svalbard. Full immersion, multiple times.
>Have you been in it in 1912 clothes?
Fuck. No. I only had my underwear on. Guess that rules me out from commenting further on the physiological impacts of prolonged submersion in arctic water.
Dammit.
Imagine the embarrassment if you did it in 1920‘s clothes and you prepared for the wrong discussion.
Full immersion. So how long? 5 minutes, 10 minutes. How bout 30 minutes? How about 4 hours? I bet you pretty fast, you start moving slow, your fingers stop responding. You grow confused and tired. All the time having to tread water.
I think you get the idea, but hey, go ahead and leave people to die.
Full immersion means head below the water, so no I wasn’t doing that for 30min or 4 hours. You keep the back of your neck, and more importantly the vagus nerve within it, out of the water as it can trigger a parasympathetic response in your heart causing an aneurysm.
I was mildly making fun of your statements, as while I have swum, waded and washed in Arctic glacial water it was pretty clear you haven’t and put a ridiculous demand of period specific clothing as a qualifier.
I have no opinion on how long a person can last in the open ocean before death, it’s not something I have any experience of. And, probably more importantly, neither do you.
So I guess my point is perhaps don’t confidently state you know about a subject that you don’t have any experience in? Leave a little room for discussion.
The current basic offshore training (BOSIET) for helicopter sea transfers says you can die in as little as two minutes in wet clothes in the North sea. You're taught to not even try to swim or Dave yourself as you lose heat faster, you have to curl up and hope you're able to be rescued in time.
We are talking about a specific hypothetical, and you want to open this hypothetical to any fucking goddamn time in the water. So yes if I was in the bahamas in the middle of summer and there were 100s of people in the water nearby I wouldn't immediately go in there with a boat. Key word being immediately.
If I was in a goddamn boat during the sinking of the Titanic and I could turn back and save people in the freezing fucking water, I would. It also sounds like you have had training in water, as well, I don't think anybody who was in the water had the fucking option of keeping their neck out of the water. I don't know what hypothetical situation of a boat full of trained water experts sinking in waist deep water equates to the sinking of the Titanic that your talking about. Sounds like people that don't need saving.
I can confidently state if you get shot in the head and the bullet goes through your brain, you will die. One can confidently state things if they understand the facts. I don't have to get shot in the head to know what happens if you do.
You’re very confident that you know better than someone who has direct experience of Arctic water immersion.
But you don’t have any experience or knowledge. Just opinion.
It’s not a specific hypothetical. The Titanic did sink. Pitman, and many others, gave first hand accounts of the situation.
And some lifeboats did return to pick up survivors. It’s one of the reasons Pitman deeply regretted not returning. The passengers that had life jackets, or floating debris, survived for quite a lot longer than your 5min timeline.
But you’re more fond of your opinions that any actual experiences.
WHAT FUCKING 5 MINUTES TIMELINE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! Im talking about being in a boat that left the area and then coming back THATS NOT 5 FUCKING MINUTES! These are untrained socialites in the goddamn 1920's
So you went in controlled conditions into some Arctic water, wow, so impressive. Still haven't given me an approximate number for how long. Have you ever had hypothermia? In the water? Then I'd take your first-hand account.
And you just fucking admitted it! It was possible for them to go back and pick people up, without being swarmed by near frozen passengers.
I really should stop responding, as you’re clearly angry I don’t agree you’re any sort of expert.
>WHAT FUCKING 5 MINUTES TIMELINE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
The 5 min you keep stating repeatedly.
>These are untrained socialites in the goddamn 1920's
No, the 1st class passengers were prioritised to lifeboats. The 2nd and 3rd class passengers were left in the water.
And human physiology hasn’t changed over the past 100 years.
>So you went in controlled conditions into some Arctic water, wow, so impressive.
It wasn’t controlled conditions. And it’s not so much impressive as direct personal experience. In fact, glacial run off water is 2 degrees colder than the open Arctic Ocean.
The key takeaway is I have more experience than you. Yet you continue to argue you’re the expert.
>Still haven't given me an approximate number for how long.
Depends. Up to 15min, I suppose.
>Have you ever had hypothermia? In the water?
No, I am not a fool. I’m not giving myself hypothermia in water just to find out what it feels like to die.
>Then I'd take your first-hand account.
Stop gatekeeping. Stop acting like you’re the expert here. That’s all I’m saying.
>And you just fucking admitted it! It was possible for them to go back and pick people up, without being swarmed by near frozen passengers.
I specifically said I had no opinion. It’s you that’s claiming the expert knowledge.
Read the accounts of the sinking, if you read the descriptions from the lifeboats, if you had any knowledge or experience at all I wouldn’t be calling you out.
>I can confidently state if you get shot in the head and the bullet goes through your brain, you will die.
Looks like someone didn't see the JFK post from a couple of days ago.
'Gunshot wound to the head not a death sentence'
How confidently incorrect you are. Dunning-Kruger strikes again!
I specified through the brain for a reason. Though, yes, you can get pierced through parts of your brain and still survive. I had thought that I had dumbed down the statement enough. Unless it's a small calibre bullet entering through your eye or other hole around your brain, any bullet able to pierce your skull, and go through your brain, is going to leave an even bigger exit hole or is going to ricochet off the inside of your skull and continue to do damage. So yes, Dunning-Kruger strikes again!
If bullet go through brainy and make brainy mush and fail out of head, you go to sleep and never wake up.
I did not realise that 'dumbing a statement down' meant turning it from something that is factual and correct into something that is speculative and bullshit. Why would you say the wrong things, when the right ones were available? How does that help dumb people?
>If bullet go through brainy and make brainy mush and fail out of head, you go to sleep and never wake up.
That's it, now we're getting there. Good job!
Wtf are you even talking about, nothing I have said is speculative? My previous statement was of course meant as hyperbole, but was also phrased in a way to make it as accurate as possible. Instead you seem to be unable to realize that and are concentrating on unlikely edge cases. Not to mention TBI can literally change who you are.
If people are in freezing water for an extended period of time the start to go into hypothermia. Symptoms of hypothermia include:
Weak pulse
Clumsiness or lack of coordination
Drowsiness or very low energy
Confusion or memory loss
Loss of consciousness
Now does this sound like a state of being in which persons could climb the side of a boat en mass and cause it to tip? Adrenaline only lasts for so long.
At NO point did I ever say in 5 minutes any or all boats should have gone back. The ONLY 5 minutes I have referred to is your time in 'glacial water'. In controlled conditions, with no panic or fear. As well as being in good medical condition, no malnutrition and no history of nicotine use. I'm sure with a warm tent or whatever nearby.
But I'm do e arguing with some Jackass who dipped his toes in cold water and think he's an expert on cold water survival.
Yep, you sure are! I'm not that guy, I'm a completely different person! You absolute dipshit.
Sorry for not reading the username after responding to a single person for a long ass thread, you dipshit! It is totally obvious too when you're going back and forth responding on the website and an app, you fuckwit.
You sound like a condescending prick
Yeah. Probably.
However the other guy is arrogantly stating his opinion as fact.
I just didn’t recognise they had any subject matter expertise.
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