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GetsGold t1_j6g1k2h wrote

Reply to comment by sineroth745756 in TIL China is bigger than the U.S. in terms of land area. The U.S. is also bigger than Canada in terms of land area. by Mewhenthe4

Can't be measured.

>The coastline paradox is the counterintuitive observation that the coastline of a landmass does not have a well-defined length. This results from the fractal curve-like properties of coastlines.

The length changes depending on how you measure it.

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Daniel_The_Thinker t1_j6gi0pu wrote

It really just needs to be standardized

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GetsGold t1_j6gi92w wrote

Whatever standard you chose would still be arbitrary though.

My vote goes for using 1000 mile long segments to measure borders.

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releasethedogs t1_j6gnznp wrote

So what. The kilometer is arbitrary. Many measurements are arbitrary. The point is it’s standardized.

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GetsGold t1_j6gpqde wrote

Whether you use kilometers or miles doesn't change the end result. It's still the same length regardless of units. But choosing how accurately you measure the border does change the result, and the accuracy you choose is arbitrary.

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kumquat_repub t1_j6guilm wrote

The lengths of coastlines cannot be measured absolutely, but they can be compared…relative to one another. You just have to use the same measuring standard on each one for a comparative measurement.

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GetsGold t1_j6gvkbv wrote

But whatever comparison method you choose is going to be arbitrary. What if one method makes the US longer while another makes China longer? Then you're going to have the same drama as in this comment section over which to use.

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kumquat_repub t1_j6gwms9 wrote

Yes whatever comparison method you choose will be arbitrary, but the smaller the scale of the measurements, the more accurate it becomes to find relative coastline lengths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_length_of_coastline?wprov=sfti1

This Wikipedia article begins by explaining the coastline paradox but then states the measurements were taken at 1:250,000 scale. There are GIS tools that can calculate the lengths of coastline at this scale and add them up, giving you a very accurate relative list of coastlines…the key word is relative.

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GetsGold t1_j6gwx9p wrote

That doesn't seem to match what the article is saying:

>The smaller the scale interval (meaning the more detailed the measurement), the longer the coastline will be.

It doesn't make it more accurate, it just makes it longer.

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kumquat_repub t1_j6gxdkw wrote

Yes they will get longer…all of them will, but they will remain proportional to each other. The US has roughly 4.4 times as much coastline as China. If you make the scale interval smaller, they will both increase in length but the ratio will remain roughly 4.4:1

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GetsGold t1_j6gyxyx wrote

Makes sense, I'll take your word on that then. The important thing is Canada is by far number one.

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sineroth745756 t1_j6g7h9k wrote

use a map at 1:1000 scale and a piece of string measure the string... that paradox Assumes you keep zooming to grains of sand

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GetsGold t1_j6gb89y wrote

The paradox doesn't depend on continuously zooming, the problem is that the length changes depending on the accuracy of your measurement or how much you zoom. So you could choose a string, and choose how sharply to bend that string around the border, but that's arbitrary. Why not a thinner string with a smaller scale of tracing, or a thicker rope with less sharp tracing?

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sineroth745756 t1_j6godom wrote

because u are comparing so u use the same size string lol yer just being difficult 8)

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GetsGold t1_j6gpyqr wrote

You're comparing with the same size string, but the size you use is arbitrary and you will get different comparisons depending on the choice. With one choice, one country might have a larger border, with another, another might. And look how many complaints there are in this thread just because China has a bigger land area. Now imagine if there is one string that would give China a bigger border and one which gives the US a bigger one. Then China would just choose the measurement which makes them bigger and US the other.

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sineroth745756 t1_j6ho4q1 wrote

use the same string pal and u can see which one has a longer boarder.

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efnfen4 t1_j6h7cgv wrote

Everything changes depending on how you measure it

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GetsGold t1_j6hdbwa wrote

In other cases, like with area, the actual area doesn't change, just you estimation of it.

With border length however, there is no "actual" length, as the more accurate you measure it, the length will increase and not ever get closer and closer to some specific value.

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