Comments
blatantninja t1_j604i15 wrote
It would not be free. There would still be a cost with producing it, testing, packaging and shipping.
And parents only last 20 years.
sickciety t1_j605u8x wrote
Patents only last 20 years if you don't change the product .
From Google
" This is in part because companies have made those incremental improvements to insulin products, which has allowed them to keep their formulations under patent, and because older insulin formulations have fallen out of fashion. "
Humalog was patented in 1996 its a 30 year old insulin which is the type many people still use to this day is still patented by Lilly. The courts have decided that in 2030 they will have to reapply for a patent .
When it was discovered the creator wanted to sell the patent for 1$
"23 January 1923 – "insulin belongs to the world"
They all sold these patents to the University of Toronto for $1 each. Banting famously said, “Insulin does not belong to me, it belongs to the world.” He wanted everyone who needed it to have access to it."
Then
"Banting, his co-discoverers, and others on the Insulin Committee secured a patent for both the product and the process, and issued a one-year license to Lilly. This year, designated an “experimental period,” would give both Lilly and researchers in Toronto's Connaught Laboratories a chance to perfect the process."
That 1 year liscence never ended and when the creators died their intellectual property was now owned by a trust managed by the insulin committee , the seated members of that trust were eli Lilly representatives .
blatantninja t1_j6062q5 wrote
And companies could still produce the older insulin formulations
sickciety t1_j607t85 wrote
Not without gmo yeast .
They patented the process of making the yeast also
The only way I could see some company producing those older insulins is through a completely new process , say someone modified a fungus to produce that older type of insulin
They would not be able to produce even the Humalog because the drug itself is patented
blatantninja t1_j608tyx wrote
You need GMO yeast for the method that Eli Lilly uses. The older processes, going all the way back to the 1926 discover, do not use GMO yeast. The problem is that these versions of insulin are not as effective as what Eli Lilly has developed.
sickciety t1_j609yok wrote
You do know how those older insulins were produced right ? Before the gmo yeast project the insulin was made from pork slaughterhouse waste .
Yes it can be done but not in large amounts
There was a female chemist who during ww2 in britain produced enough insulin this way for her and 2 other people in her town . They had to starve themselves of carbs and sugars so they could use less insulin.
By the end of the war she had slaughtered her families entire pig farm ( they were the largest pig farm in the uk at the time and they went bankrupt trying to keep their daughter alive . It was just enough insulin just for those 3 people even while rationing it just wouldn't be enough for a wider population
Here's a good source of info
https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/2013/11/two-tons-of-pig-parts-making-insulin-in-the-1920s.html
2 tons of pig pancreas will produce 8 ozs of insulin .
blatantninja t1_j60aj13 wrote
Yes, it is derived from animals,that is correct. I'm sure this chemist wasn't exactly able to be efficient. I believe we still have plenty of slaughterhouse waste being produced everyday.
Prior to 1976 large amounts of insulin were produced in a manner to be efficient enough to be available to the general public
sickciety t1_j60d392 wrote
I dont think you realize how much the population of diabetics has increased . Nor how the Lilly corporation has gone to great lengths to protected their ip and profit margin
I can tell ill never change your mind . I listed sources , made my argument and have gotten bored of this conversation.
You may not realize how bad of an issue it is until your an old man and have to pay 200$ for 1oz of insulin that lasts about 2 weeks if kept cold . We are all so ignorant of things until they affect us or the ones we love. I have a 10yo who was diagnosed t1 at 18 months old .
It doesn't take much research to realize the insulin industry was turned into a monopoly by Lilly .
blatantninja t1_j60eiph wrote
I'm Pre-diabetic. My father is diabetic. My grandmother was diabetic. I am VERY familiar with diabetes.
Yes the industry had been turned into a monoply withe their GMO yeast and processes. No one is stopping anyone from making the older versions though. Would it be enough for the whole population? No. Any increase in supply and alternatives would help the overall price situation though. Its basic economics.
sickciety t1_j60h56y wrote
Maybe you should do it. Since it's so easy and your the first one to see a viable option to increase supply with waste products . Its not like there arent actual chemist, biologists and genetic engineers who also want to increase supply and provide a viable cheaper option who are actively sued or stopped from doing so . But we dont live in a free market . If it were a free market we would have 1$ insulin like india . You don't have to explain economics to me , im a libertarian and quite well understand we dont live in a perfect capitalist society . But I think human health and life are more important than Lilly's profit margin .
Honestly were just arguing over something neither of us could actually help to solve the issue.
My issue is with the patenting of life and the overpriced medication that is a lifeline for diabetics . When your life depends on a medication they can charge whatever they want and you will pay it . Thats not economics , thats not fair market pricing .... thats just sick!
blatantninja t1_j60z94s wrote
Of course neither of us are going to do it. Neither of us have the capital or expertise. That's irrelevant to the point of their existing other avenues.
> If it were a free market we would have 1$ insulin like india .
No we wouldn't. Insulin is cheaper (but it isn't $1) in India for several reasons, one of which is that the government purchases large amounts of it at bulk prices and gives it away for free. That's not even close to a free market.
>You don't have to explain economics to me , im a libertarian and quite well understand we dont live in a perfect capitalist society . But I think human health and life are more important than Lilly's profit margin .
Those two statements are a huge contradiction. No real libertarian would say that. A libertarian would say "let the market decide" and leave it at that.
Ultimately, your problem is that our healthcare system, top to bottom, is messed up, but a free market won't solve that.
sickciety t1_j61b5ll wrote
I disagree with you . But that's completely fine
Its been interesting debating back and forth with ya . Have a great night
[deleted] t1_j62qnco wrote
[deleted]
RedSonGamble t1_j61b1qb wrote
stuffing money into wheelbarrow “Well it’s dangerous to just let anyone make it? What if they made it wrong or mishandled it. It seems like we’re being greedy but we just care about the product and patients”
I’ve come to the conclusion everything’s just all fucked. Unless everyone was on board with just being good people and everyone pulling their weight there is no way to stop greed and corruption.
-6-6-6- t1_j60t2de wrote
Market economics in healthcare is what gave us this. I'm good on more free market, thanks. Would appreciate if the invisible hand of the market gave me a reacharound tho.
personalcheesecake t1_j62czgx wrote
What about Mark Cuban's company?
ToroidalEarthTheory t1_j62r7yx wrote
The original patents for producing the necessary GMO yeast expired 20 years ago and several companies, including Walmart, make insulin without relying on EliLilly
TommyBoy825 t1_j61lrtb wrote
Back in the day if you drove through the near Southside of Indianapolis you could smell when Lilly was making insulin.
sickciety t1_j603sok wrote
Making insulin is as easy as brewing beer . Same equipment , same inputs . The only difference is regular people can't get their hands on the gmo yeast because they patented the process of making it and the yeast themselves . No company can sell it without the permission of eli Lilly . If caught making or selling it they can be sued for doing so. I know of one company who started making it and trying to open source the process and they were hit with cease and desist letters . Lilly claimed they stole their intellectual property . They thought if they didn't sell it they would be fine giving it away for free but they were sadly mistaken . We also are not allowed to import insulin , it supposidly costs 1$ per vial in India( but the lilly produces insulin for export which is sold for 2$ in places like aphganistan )
This is the main reason why insulin is so expensive. Because they've created a monopoly. If it were left up to the free market we would have very very cheap insulin .