Comments
QuicheSmash t1_j7fg74v wrote
That big polar vortex was being pushed around by warm air. So once it passed, there's just warm air behind it.
This unfortunately will be how it goes. Winter weather will be both unseasonably warm and frigid, as opposed to just cold. The time of consistent winter weather has passed.
GreenPL8 t1_j7ft150 wrote
This is the new normal. Extreme and unpredictable weather fluctuations. A destabilized polar vortex. It will kill crops and wreck the supply chain. Accept it and figure out how to prepare given this new reality.
Corey307 t1_j7h0653 wrote
This is what climate change deniers and people who don’t care do not understand, that we are already having serious issues with crop losses globally. As those crop losses worsen food won’t just become more expensive it will become less available. The vast majority of farmed crops do not tolerate severe weather fluctuations. One freeze or heat wave might not kill off a crop but it will damage at reducing you and could take out the whole crop.
suzi-r t1_j7iyl3e wrote
Yes…we’ve been told to expect warm-up into spring followed by snow in April. Historically, that fits into an April outlook…let’s wait & see how much…
Jessica_T t1_j7lsl2c wrote
It's a spinning top. As it slows, the wobbles get larger, and larger...
Excellent_Affect4658 t1_j7fm3j4 wrote
The cold snap wasn’t even really that unusual though (or if it was, it was only for the high winds). We have several days with temps like that in a normal winter, we’ve just all gone soft.
clamworm t1_j7fxy53 wrote
Right, several days, in a row. Not a day here and a day there. That's what's different now. The 30, -30, -30, 30. Not 10, 5, 0 ,-5, -10, -10, -10, -5, 0, 10, 5... like it used to do.
PeteDontCare t1_j7fqyho wrote
Not sure why the downvotes. Not a native Vermonter here, but been here long enough to know and remember that long stretches of subzero or single digits were always expected and normal. In fact, if you mentioned how cold it was, Vermonters were quick to tell you that it was normal and to buck up. Although the added wind may not be a regular thing, I have to agree with your conclusion that folks seem to have a short memory and people seem to be going soft. They never used to cancel school for several inches of snow, either....
Excellent_Affect4658 t1_j7fu560 wrote
Even just a few years ago (around Christmas 2017) it was subzero for most of a week, with lows around -20. Totally normal thing, happened every year when I was a kid. I only remember 2017 because my in-laws had just moved up here from PA and were like “WTF have we done?!!!”
thunder-cricket t1_j7g8ak0 wrote
Was it in the 40s on the week before and after? Because that's what this conversation is about.
PeteDontCare t1_j7fvmyl wrote
I remember this too.... Because we were fascinated by that whole throwing boiling water into the air trick to watch it instantly turn into "snow". I think it's all the hype around these cold snaps on national news and social media that has everyone forgetting what the norm always was
thunder-cricket t1_j7g82k7 wrote
This thread isn't about how there was a long stretch of cold. This wasn't a long stretch. It was a couple of days of -20 degrees, sandwiched between these disturbing, so-called 'winter' days of 40+. That's what's alarming, unexpected and not normal. Hope that helps.
Excellent_Affect4658 t1_j7gritd wrote
The comment I was responding to says, verbatim, “both unseasonably warm and frigid”. It is not. These are not unseasonably frigid temperatures. They are unseasonably warm. The swings are probably more abrupt than they used to be, but that’s not what I was objecting to.
thunder-cricket t1_j7h2kp5 wrote
OK. In that case, you're taking one portion of one sentence out of it's context to object to it, in an effort to obfuscate the real point and defend your argument: that the weather is normal and not alarming. The problem you say, and i quote verbatim, is "we've all just gone soft."
You're wrong. We haven't "all just gone soft." The weather we're experiencing is not normal and is alarming.
The full sentence is: "Winter weather will be both unseasonably warm and frigid, as opposed to just cold. The time of consistent winter weather has passed."
Excellent_Affect4658 t1_j7h45ou wrote
The weather is alarming, but not because it's cold, which is what gets all the attention. The cold snap was normal; it's the rest of the winter that people should be alarmed by. I'm not trying to "obfuscate" anything. Asking for precision is not denying climate science.
thunder-cricket t1_j7h5wm2 wrote
People are alarmed by the whole winter. People's aren't complaining that it was cold over the weekend; people are saying the swings are the alarming thing. That's what this whole post is about, including the person whose comment you're responding to. If you're not trying to obfuscate (it means to make obscure) the point of that comment, which you are now saying you agree with, I'm not sure why you took a few words out of their overall context to object to.
PeteDontCare t1_j7g8f0o wrote
It seems to be about neither of these scenarios, but rather an observation
thunder-cricket t1_j7g9gr8 wrote
There are two contending observations. Some people are observing that the extreme temperature swing we're seeing in the past 7 days is alarming.
And others (including you), are observing "no they're not; we've always had cold days in the winter. This is expected and normal," which obfuscates the point of the first observation. No one is saying it's alarming that it was very cold for a few days. We're saying it's alarming it was -20 one day and 45 two days later.
PeteDontCare t1_j7gaktq wrote
Yes, some people are saying both things. The original post didn't take a stance. You're just as wrong as I am, buddy
thunder-cricket t1_j7gbrul wrote
>Yes, some people are saying both things.
You can't say something is both abnormal and normal at the same time. I'm not sure which people you think are saying both things, but they are wrong and make no sense.
>The original post didn't take a stance.
The original post asks if they were hallucinating the cold over the last weekend, since it's so warm today. That means the original poster is taking the stance that this isn't normal, since people wonder if they are hallucinating when they observe something that doesn't seem like it could be real.
>You're just as wrong as I am, buddy
Again, hope all that helps.
flambeaway t1_j7fxozg wrote
>we’ve just all gone soft.
Just a noisy minority. Most people just got up and went to work.
KawasakiBinja t1_j7fx3n5 wrote
Yeah, I mean I remember in Jan/Feb 2019 there was a solid week of subzero temps during the daytime - my car even registered -22 F at like 6 AM.
This winter has been absolutely mild in comparison. I've only had to run the snowblower twice.
thunder-cricket t1_j7g9w3k wrote
Do you really not understand the alarming part isn't that it was cold for a few days, but rather the extreme temperature swings?
KawasakiBinja t1_j7gdfi8 wrote
No, I do understand all of that, and I don't like the extreme swings either. My comment was purely about the fact that we've seen such temps before.
thunder-cricket t1_j7h34yq wrote
Ok, but no one is arguing we've never seen such temps before. The argument is the extreme swings is new.
Abitconfusde t1_j7gqira wrote
Well, I have to confess that I don't. It seems like this year has started off really warm. What do the extreme temperature swings signify?
thunder-cricket t1_j7gztz8 wrote
As the comment you're responding to says:
>That big polar vortex was being pushed around by warm air. So once it passed, there's just warm air behind it.
>
>This unfortunately will be how it goes. Winter weather will be both unseasonably warm and frigid, as opposed to just cold. The time of consistent winter weather has passed.
Abitconfusde t1_j7i2x1h wrote
Thank you for responding, but I don't think the comment you quoted is the one I was looking at. Although it seems perfectly clear to me that this is a warm winter with the Arctic blast inserted for fun, and although it seems obvious that steadily warming weather is the trend, and although the trend points to global warming, and although that trend is actually cataclysmic, the comment I responded to made it seem like the pattern signified something more immediate. Like next week or month. I was looking for explication of that sentiment.
Corey307 t1_j7h19y2 wrote
They are a clear indicator of climate change and some thing that should concern you greatly. we’re not just having an easy winter, we haven’t had a winter not really. and it’s not just here, weather patterns around the world are all wrong and it’s accelerating. People focus too much on the global warming aspect of climate change not understanding that as the planet warms weather becomes unpredictable and dangerous. You lose crops to temperature fluctuations and far too much or far too little rain. The figure well if it’s hotter, colder, wetter or drier than it should be I can stay inside but that doesn’t do anything to feed us.
Abitconfusde t1_j7i57r2 wrote
> They are a clear indicator of climate change and some thing that should concern you greatly.
It does, and I may not have been clear. I believe we are living through a slow-motion (for humans... instant in geological time) cataclysm that will cause worldwide death (by war and famine) and disaster by weather events and ecocide. I suspect our course is at this point irreversible without a worldwide "Manhattan project" level of effort in innovation and mindset change. What I read in the comment (but which may not have been intended by its author) was that the pattern foretells tornados or hurricanes or something in the days immediately following the polar vortex.
> The [sic] figure well if it’s hotter, colder, wetter or drier than it should be I can stay inside but that doesn’t do anything to feed us.
True. And as more pollinators die off because they can't stay cool enough or because we think we will increase yields with pesticides, yield will continue to spiral. I suppose I could continue my side rant, but the point is... Yes I'm concerned... panicked even... And when someone suggests a particular weather pattern is alarming, I prick up my ears, because fuck! I'm in a constant state of alarm. Isn't everybody? What makes this particular weather pattern any worse or more alarming than ALL of the other signs telling us that we are on the bullet train to the end of human civilization as we know it?
Corey307 t1_j7ink54 wrote
Well said. You brought up some good points, that climate change causes cascading environmental failures and that it’s not a slow march toward the end because climate change is accelerating. We’re already past the point of no return due to atmospheric CO2 levels add the methane being released from melting permafrost is only making things worse. If mankind somehow reduced its CO2 emissions by 95% overnight it would not spare us from climate change although it would spare us from the worst of it.
The sad thing is I’ve talked about this a lot of times and I get a lot of people who are convinced that carbon capture will save us or that fusion will give us unlimited clean power so we can start polluting. Fusion is at least a few decades too late and we’re at least 20 years away from it being useful. Carbon capture only works at ground level, atmospheric carbon capture it simply is not possible even if all the worlds governments put trillions of dollars into it we’d still be polluting like hell building the means to capture carbon. I’ve tried explaining to people that we aren’t in a car racing toward a cliff, we’re in a car that already went over the edge.
You’re right that this is only one example and that’s why a lot of people don’t believe what is happening. It’s because they’re blind to what’s going on around the world. People really don’t have the time, don’t care or are too freaked out to pay attention. I’m one of the lucky ones in a way, I didn’t have kids because my family genetics are a crapshoot. I’m staying in New England and buying more land because I genuinely enjoy homesteading snd can try to prepare for a food insecure future.
suzi-r t1_j7iyxzr wrote
Loss of equilibrium
Corey307 t1_j7h0orn wrote
The people that were complaining about two frigid days aren’t the problem, the problem is it should not be anywhere near this warm. The average nightly low by the lake for the next 10 days is 23°F and the average high is 39°F, that’s not February weather. Those temps are at least 15 to 20° higher than they should be on average.
Pristine_Tension8399 t1_j7f4zvt wrote
The absolute value of the temperature is the same. |-44| = 44.
ikilledmystepdad t1_j7ig50x wrote
I always found it neat that -40 Celsius was also -40 Fahrenheit
ranaparvus t1_j7f01h5 wrote
Just went outside and this temp fluctuation is absolutely eerie.
Brit-Git t1_j7f6y7j wrote
I went outside for a cigarette at 5am today and it was 42 degrees. Felt like summer compared to the weekend.
VinylTaco t1_j7fo8fw wrote
Welcome to climate change.
NonDeterministiK t1_j7fluhx wrote
Perhaps a meteorologist could explain what's happening but these extreme fluctuations are becoming the norm. And Vermont is sitting right on the line where it happens. It may be related to shifing of the jet stream, or the movement of the magnetic pole eastward.
Russian_Rocket23 t1_j7fozze wrote
Not a meteorologist, but in simple terms.....when the arctic warms, the polar vortex gets pushed south, which leads to these 2-3 days of intense cold. Since the arctic is warming at a rate faster than the rest of the planet, we can expect it to happen more frequently.
clamworm t1_j7g1a5n wrote
Not a meteorologist, but this is the best way it's been explained to me.
Think of the jet stream as a river. When the equatorial air masses are significantly warmer than arctic air masses, the jet stream went like a river between two steep mountains, straight and fast, west to east. Cold stays north, warm stays south.
Now that the arctic has significantly warmed, the 'riverbanks' aren't as steep, and the jet stream slowed down and started to meander, like a river when it comes to a broad valley. Like a sine wave. So instead of having a clear line between warm and cold, we have a bunch of troughs and valleys. As these troughs and valleys move west to east we get a cycle of warm/cold/warm/cold/.
In the cold arctic scenario, it takes a lot more energy to move the jet stream north and south, taking days or weeks to move 200 miles. Now it happens in hours on a regular basis.
Something about the jet stream I see more often in the area forecast discussions is the jet stream getting low enough to clip the mountain tops. I don't know for sure if this is a new phenomenon or I just wasn't paying attention. Would be grateful for someone with more knowledge on to chime in on both parts.
Corey307 t1_j7gz6to wrote
I’m no expert on the subject but I read what experts say regarding climate change. The global warming aspect of climate change is causing bizarre weather events around the world, the planet is progressively getting warmer but that doesn’t mean it will be warmer everywhere. Look at the bizarre weather last year where much of the US, Europe and China suffered severe crop losses from drought. Some US farmland dried out so badly that the ground cracked. So the soil ecosystem was badly damaged if not killed off making that land not useful for farming. around that time 1/3rd of Pakistan was underwater. An area the size of Texas or France since they are roughly equivalent flooded in Pakistan, this was caused by severe weather and glaciers melting due to climate change.
Dumb people will say big deal if it gets a little hotter I’ll just turn on the air conditioning not understanding that plants and animals do not cope with this kind of weather. They don’t understand that global crop losses means food is more expensive today and 20-30 years from now just getting food is going to be a problem. Dumb people will say what global warming means will be able to farm areas we couldn’t before. Areas that are currently farmed probably aren’t suitable for farming without massive amounts of fertilizer, irrigation or both and much of the US is running out of water. I’m not someone who just talks about this either, I’ve taken steps to be food secure in the future.
MarkVII88 t1_j7fsw5v wrote
Took my kids to school this morning and it was 30 degrees at 7am. That's 45 degrees warmer than it was on Friday when I drove to work at the same time (not even counting the wind chill). Kids had no school this past Friday due to wind chills of -40 degrees.
lavransson t1_j7ghjyw wrote
65° temp swing in 2 days. The new normal. I feel sorry for the wildlife, this must be hard.
Corey307 t1_j7gyi0u wrote
Same for the flora. Said it here before, my fruit trees dropped their leaves super late then a few started budding probably because it warmed up again. That has to stress them.
iamthefluffyyeti t1_j7fy2n3 wrote
Nothing is happening guys this is completely normal /s
ZonasFostonas t1_j7fqdxk wrote
It was just a dream !
rockstang t1_j7g88nr wrote
Ice will start to melt and then boom we'll get 8 inches.
Foxx983 t1_j7h4w7u wrote
Well at least the remaining snow that's hard packed into ice will melt off first.
Unique-Public-8594 t1_j7f9r7w wrote
Huh? Is this current temp or forecast?
Weather Underground has Barre at 32 at the time of this writing.
weavess0147 t1_j7fv7zh wrote
Not sure what you were looking at but OPs screenshot is from weather.gov so I think this is the ultimate source that most of those other weather apps are based on
[deleted] OP t1_j7fbkq5 wrote
[deleted]
hideous-boy t1_j7fvoan wrote
finally! Time to wash the car
Otto-Korrect t1_j7fzu38 wrote
I always bring my thermometer inside if it gets cold. You don't want to damage it!
5708ski t1_j837j8g wrote
If you don't like the weather just wait 5 minutes.
PeteDontCare t1_j7gcxzu wrote
If you insist on being daft:
There are two groups of people, some saying one thing, others saying the other. I'm not saying anyone is saying both simultaneously. And OP made an observation, they didn't comment on the phenomenon. Quit being smug. It's ok to comment that people are being total wusses about this. I witnessed plenty of it over the past few days, hence my comment. These people weren't discussing the existence and meaning of the drastic temperature swings. Again, you're just as wrong as I am, you ass
DarkLamont t1_j7h116c wrote
We just need to turn the heaters off to blow the balloon away
TitsMcGooo t1_j7ex1u9 wrote
Global weirding