Please help support our campus libraries!

Submitted by prettypeepers t3_10xbu34 in vermont

Yesterday, the new President of Vermont State University, the new name of the campuses that are merging into one massive school, announced very suddenly in an email that they are planning to get rid of our physical libraries. Along with this, it was announced that our sports were getting a downgrade. This was sent out in an Email at 3:45pm. The Webinar for Faculty and Staff was scheduled for 4:30pm and 6:00pm for the students. This Webinar was only an hour long, and our voices were severely limited. The "Q&A" chat feature was turned off not even half way through. Students were called on and allowed to speak, but we barely had any time to speak our minds. And this was two huge issues combined into a single hour. Not a single student was happy with the decisions, and it did not go by students in the slightest. It was claimed that there was a survey sent out through email, but not once do I recall receiving an email. It was also claimed that a "student committee" was consulted, but not once do I recall voting for these students.

A schools library is integral. And a Library without books is no longer a library. I do not see any good whatsoever coming from removing our physical actual books for a strictly digital version. This is VERMONT state university. Its absurd to assume that every single person has a spotless internet connection.

In response to my plea about the importance of actual books, the President suggested that "there will be printers." Suggesting the most costly solution to a completely manufactured problem.

Vermont is one of the states with the MOST libraries. This was a point brought up by a chair member during the Webinar. How can somebody hear this fact and think "That means we don't need any more."

Please, show your support for all of the physical libraries on our campuses. Books are integral for learning.

EDIT: It was brought to my attention that there is a change-org petition as well! Said Petition is at nearly 400 signatures. Make sure to give it a sign as well!

https://chng.it/qsqN59WMng

https://forms.gle/mQ1nwN7yJDdRQGyj7

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Comments

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GreenBeginning3753 t1_j7rzhud wrote

Signed. We are not in a place in our society where physical books can or should be eliminated, especially in higher education. The mere suggestion is reckless and irresponsible. They should be ashamed of themselves.

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7s0rxa wrote

Thank you very much! There is nothing good that can come out of getting rid of the actual books. This was a decision that was made completely without the input of students OR faculty/staff.

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captainogbleedmore t1_j7s2vd0 wrote

Printers? Librarian here to say that fair use is only up to 20% of a book and cannot include core elements of the text. Your president is advocating copyright infringement. Would also point out that libraries are part of accreditation. That being said, a digital library is still a library, but good luck telling that to NECHE!

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Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_j7txp5c wrote

They say facilities.

Information, Physical, and Technological Resources

7.21 The institution has sufficient and appropriate information, physical, and technological resources necessary for the achievement of its purposes wherever and however its academic programs are offered. It devotes sufficient resources to maintain and enhance its information, physical, and technological resources. (See also 4.10)

7.22 The institution provides access to library and information resources, services, facilities, and qualified staff sufficient to support its teaching and learning environments and its research and public service mission as appropriate.

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captainogbleedmore t1_j7u213j wrote

Don't overlook the staffing line either, you should have a certain ratio of librarians to students. Previous NECHE requirements had an entire section devoted to libraries but sadly this was all they left in the most recent revision.

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INTPLibrarian t1_j7vgs0n wrote

Right? (Academic librarian here, not from Vermont, just searched to see if this story was on reddit.) Our most used e-book vendors prevent you from printing more than a certain amount. A few do, but not the majority.

Plus, there are a LOT of books that simply aren't available digitally!

My library currently purchases a book as an e-book if it's available. Guess what? We still purchase a lot in print.

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7vqxdp wrote

We have so many books in our library on the Johnson Campus that are pieces of history. Countless texts that 100% would NOT be available in a digital medium. They say they will "donate" the books, but no matter what happens to the books themselves, that is still so much information that is being taken away from students. It breaks my heart that this is even being considered.

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N4P41M t1_j7womq9 wrote

The Johnson library is awesome and it'd be such a shame to see it dispersed to the wind! If the mission is to recoup cash and cut costs, the idea that the books are to be donated rather than sold makes no sense to me!

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INTPLibrarian t1_j7wvrie wrote

That's even more insanity. I could kind of understand if they were moving them to remote storage. They'd still be available, but you'd have to wait a bit to get access. Giving them away is crazy. Unless... maybe there is a historical museum which will be getting them?

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7ww6fl wrote

Do take my words about where exactly the books are going with a grain of salt. I believe there was only a few sentences about that part in the email. Either way, its very frustrating because a lot of our books were donations, and some are donations from people who are no longer with us. To take those somewhere else would be such a slap in the face to those people

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captainogbleedmore t1_j7s4d41 wrote

Also want to point out that digital books are more expensive than physical copies. A library license for an unlimited user textbook can easily top $500. How will this save any money when you can get multiple copies of the same book physically?

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7s4spn wrote

Exactly! Thank you so much for your point of view. This doesn't save ANY money, in fact its going to cost so much more. The only money "saved" is from the librarians they want to lay off in July. The cost of removing all of the books, and the shelves, and remodeling the area would be so much more than what they would "save"

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captainogbleedmore t1_j7s5ipv wrote

There are a lot of other factors at play too. Not sure how they will get around reciprocal lending and borrowing agreements for interlibrary loan when you have no physical books to lend out. There are two virtual private colleges in the state and even they maintain their physical collections partially for this reason.

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7s5zvr wrote

Right, thats a really good point. They kept reiterating that "the interlibrary loan will still exist", but how will they accomplish that if they can only take and not give?

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captainogbleedmore t1_j7s79d4 wrote

They will still have their journal database subscriptions to lend out, but that doesn't cover a commitment to books. I do wonder how much of an increase there was to database costs with the merger. A school that size easily pays 100k for EBSCO's academic search complete, so I can only imagine the costs for Sage, ScienceDirect, and JSTOR. Hope their database budget is at least 500k!

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7s8w33 wrote

And the crazy part is those resources- we already had a lot of them! We have access to JSTOR, and a ton of researching resources. I don't know how all of that will be affected with the merger.

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INTPLibrarian t1_j7vifrz wrote

It looks like they're not laying off ALL of the librarians, at least. I hope they realize, though, that maintenance and support for those e-books (or other e-resources) is a LOT of work. I won't get into specifics, but basically, that's what I do. There's a ton of behind-the-scenes work that goes on to make these available and working.

They may find that they need to hire MORE librarians for this.

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7vq9fu wrote

Gosh, I can imagine! It's like, how are they planning on getting those E-Books? Will they create an entirely new platform, or are they planning on outsourcing and using a company? In which case, that brings an uncomfortable amount of control over which books we are able to access.

The entire plan is way more costly than how they are currently run, and all in a flawed notion of "progress."

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INTPLibrarian t1_j7wva6b wrote

There will have to be a librarian in charge of ordering them via whatever platform they are available on, then activating them, then managing access, at the very least. It's extremely improbable that they would create their own platform. That's just unfeasible. For e-books, there already is control over what you can access and that will continue. But, it is complicated in a lot of ways.

I haven't (yet) looked at the Vermont schools' current libraries to see what they're using right now. I'm assuming they will continue to use those same vendors and probably add more. It's not really outsourcing in the way that's usually understood, but yes, it does require working with outside vendors.

Hey, if I was having lunch with you, I could go on for hours about e-resources and libraries, but I'll refrain here. LOL.

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7wvhi5 wrote

Haha, I do not mind in the slightest! The information is very helpful and I appreciate you for sharing it.

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HappilyhiketheHump t1_j7sqamd wrote

Does “unlimited user textbook” mean that an unlimited # of people can have the book at the same time?

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captainogbleedmore t1_j7u1itk wrote

Yes. Academic licenses come in a variety of flavors: 1-user, 3-user, multiple users but limited to 365 checkouts in a year, and unlimited. Some, but not all, are DRM free. A number of mainstream publishers like Penguin limit to single user, so if it is a high circulation text the library is forced to buy several licenses at hundreds to thousands of dollars to satisfy demand. There are also annual hosting fees for some vendors like SAGE if you do not maintain a database subscription.

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NowIAmThatGuy t1_j7u3gc1 wrote

I wonder if this new president has any investments in book publishing companies. Someone should check his portfolio to ensure he’s not enriching his investment portfolio by way of directing state funds towards these publishing companies. Also, libraries seem like a low budgetary expense line item. I’m sure there are programs that are more expensive than libraries. Typically athletic programs top the expensive line item at universities. Why not eliminate them if the intent is to save money while preserving the educational integrity of the institution? Just seems fishy.

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captainogbleedmore t1_j7udaaw wrote

Libraries are always easy targets to administration in k-12 and higher Ed because they have high cost for materials. Let's say I am a librarian at a small private school and my materials budget is 100k and my new president thinks that no one uses physical books anymore so I am mandated to reduce costs by 50%? Well there goes JSTOR, ProQuest, LexisNexis, and an EBSCO subscription that gave students access to more than 2 million journal articles because the easiest thing to cut is database subscriptions that are paid yearly. Libraries also pay for copyright licenses that cover the school so that you and your professor don't get slammed with fines and charges for sharing a PDF of a textbook chapter. These fees are all based on school size so the higher the FTE the higher the cost. A major school will have a library budget in the millions. We are a profession that is always on the front lines of budget cuts and public apathy and/or misinformation that fuels more cuts. My first gig as a librarian involved making substantial budget cuts due to a president like this and the students and school suffered for it. And while these are all generalities, if the school has an a program with secondary accreditation in education, nursing, law, etc. Those accreditation bodies have their separate guidelines for libraries. Nursing accreditation requirements for one call for materials to be published within 10yrs, so library staff are constantly having to weed and replenish a collection. Imagine doing that with digital books? Separately not all publishers have forever licenses. Penguin previously would make public libraries buy a new license after x-number of checkouts. The rationale being that a physical copy of a popular fiction book can only survive 30 or so circulations. That's the type of greed you're dealing with.

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NowIAmThatGuy t1_j7uedyz wrote

Thank you for educating us on the nuance of libraries. I love libraries and librarians. I would not have made it out of undergrad or grad school if not for the library and those who ran it. And my use of the library was just the tip of the iceberg of what a library does. This action by the president is appalling.

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INTPLibrarian t1_j7vj4yp wrote

As I keep reading this thread... are you me? LOL. Thank you so much for explaining all of this so clearly. Like I said, I'm not even in Vermont, but wanted to see what people were saying about this.

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7vt7cr wrote

I cannot thank you and every other Librarian in this thread for giving this information. I am writing a paper about how awful of a decision this is and how incredibly important Libraries are for everyone, and this is so incredibly important. For the google form petition that I created, I plan on attaching every comment written out by people to the end of the paper.

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7vs1mx wrote

So I only bring up the libraries here, but the news we received also highly impacted our sports teams as well. I don't really mention it just because I don't understand it further than it absolutely screws them over. This link is to the post that was made further explaining the decisions. That is a really good point you made. I don't have any idea of what Grewal did before he became VSU's president

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jessamyn t1_j7ss8gq wrote

I'm a librarian who lives in Randolph and this is a garbage decision that I very much suspect is not evidence-based despite what they claim to be saying about it. In addition to signing above, there's also a change.org petition. https://chng.it/fdfKddXm

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TurnTurnVT t1_j7sto8n wrote

When Corporations are on the brink of bankruptcy, they will often hire a turnaround CEO, usually someone with a track record in "turning around" failing companies. I put "turning around" in quotes because often there is no miraculous bounce back that occurs, but a sale to another company at fire sale prices or some restructuring that ensures survival but what survives is often unrecognizable or a fraction of what it was. In other words, turnarounds don't really happen in the private sector and good outcomes are rare.

The situation you describe at your college sounds exactly like a "turnaround" situation with a new President whose mandate is probably quite similar to a turnaround CEO. The problem is he can't really sell or merge a college as easily as a private sector leader could a company. So essentially the only tool left in his tool box is to slowly cut things and sell assets to preserve cash flow, hoping to reach some steady-state or breakeven number that allows the institution to at least exist.

So basically, your college is going to keep shrinking and it's going to keep cutting stuff. You shouldn't be surprised to hear about changes/elimination to your major and department, more cuts to programs, changes to housing, or just about anything. Ultimately, you shouldn't even be surprised if you wake up and your college announces it is going to shut down.

It happened to Burlington College just a few years ago.

I know there are many great things about your college, but if I were you I would at least discuss contingency plans with your parents or mentors. It's your future too.

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VWSpeedRacer t1_j7szava wrote

Burlington was different. That person was brought in to free up prime real estate...

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captainogbleedmore t1_j7u29iz wrote

The most recent job description for the new Library Director at the merged school had in the first lines language that indicated it was a turn around position. It's still up at the Vermont Library Association website for anyone interested.

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greenmtnfiddler t1_j7smegl wrote

SUNY's not far to the west and UNH is an easy sprint down 89 and as far as I know they both still have real books.
Way to drive people away.

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ellusiveuser t1_j7sa1wk wrote

Done. Fahrenheit 451°. Nothing more needs to be said.

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7sc9to wrote

Vermont State Colleges are trying to create a stranglehold on the knowledge of society?

Or they are failing and this is a lb attempt to save money at failing schools?

Which is more likely?

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ellusiveuser t1_j7sf5xt wrote

Either way, what's the outcome?

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7si0e3 wrote

Those are two entirely different scenarios. I'm assuming you understand that.

One is the active censorship by government and the other is a school not being able to fund itself, but using the guise of being more effective and streamlined.

You understand the difference right.....right?

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ellusiveuser t1_j7u5m05 wrote

You understand the books are unavailable in either scenario... right?

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7ud9ql wrote

So you're sticking by your bad analogy?

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ellusiveuser t1_j7uqb0y wrote

The end result of depriving access to literature is tyranny whether defacto by budgetary mismanagement, or de jure by writ of autocratic decree. The result is still the same and should be opposed as such. The fact that you're defending the circumstances due to financial incompetence doesn't change the absolutely incalculably inexcusable outcome, which was made evident in the novel.

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7v60z0 wrote

I'm not defending anything. I'm saying your analogy is garbage. I don't like the fact that books are going away, but not liking something doesn't mean I don't understand it.

And you calling the library's physical copies being removed as tyranny is also crazy. It's not good, but it's not tyranny.

I'll just go ahead and assume you also think if someone doesn't agree with you that they are the basically the next Hitler.

Who knows maybe these VT colleges are tyrannical!

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ellusiveuser t1_j7v91yq wrote

I don't think you're Hitler for not agreeing with me, I just think you're incapable of thinking critically. The important thing to focus on here is not the means, but the end. However you arrive at the end it doesn't change the outcome, despite the means. Yes, if the decision by a governing body is to physically remove tangible literature from a designated repository of literature, directly as a result from an overly bloated and mismanaged administration that is trying to navigate funding The outcome. Is. The. Same. Call it a tyranny of oppression or a tyranny of incompetence, the governing force is creating a reality that can only rationally be perceived as devolving the spectrum of intelligence so far from a semblance of acceptable reality that it's almost worse if it is a result of incompetence and not as a calculated attempt at overthrowing a freethinking body politic. At least that level of evil is comprehensible.

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7vbuv2 wrote

Tyranny

The college also isn't the government. I don't know if you're incapable of critical and real-world thought or you've just selected your point to argue and keep digging in further.

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ellusiveuser t1_j7vvcxt wrote

Now you're trolling me. And as always, you're criticism is self referential. The administration of a Vermont university is a governing body it governs the operations of the university.

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7vy83i wrote

I wish it was just trolling. It'd be easy enough to do, but not what I'm doing.

So switching from using the word tyranny to govern and trying to make it sound like government? As in, the college is a government?

You do know that a college may "govern" but your now just using it as an adjective. They can also administer. Hell, they could even dictate!

But just because they are dictating, doesn't make them a dictatorship. Just as governing, doesn't make them a government.

It's not a government, it's also not tyrannical. Giving them wheels also wouldn't make them a bicycle.

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ellusiveuser t1_j7w73am wrote

Ok, this has been fun, thanks for understanding my point. Be careful in the storm. Sleep well, talk to you in the morning.

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[deleted] t1_j7shgv2 wrote

[deleted]

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7sihu0 wrote

I know they're failing. They've been failing for years. They are doing a slow death through all of the colleges rather than determining what to actually cut out and try to correct the ship.

The sad reality is not all of them can stay open at their current standing. Desire to stay open isn't going to pay bills. Higher recruitment (unlikely) or severe consolidation needs to occur.

Maybe there is another way I'm not familiar with, but the slow closing is only prolonging it's death. Work to correct the issue and get the system healthy rather than doing slow amputation.

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[deleted] t1_j7v4xm3 wrote

[deleted]

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7v6jzb wrote

Ehhhh, that's a bit of a stretch....I'm not going to agree they aren't funded because it's white Vermonters going there. That's a huge accusation.

We don't spend a lot of higher Ed because it's turned into a business rather than focusing on why it actually exists, which is to educate.

Admin bloat, unnecessary classes and positions that serve no purpose to educate, but offer positions to people. I also don't think state schools should turn a profit, they should break even, like a government service. But if say that, they also need support. Can't expect them to operate like a business without operating like a business.

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[deleted] t1_j7vz720 wrote

[deleted]

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7w02rs wrote

Yup, gonna need some actual proof of that before even acknowledge it's true.

I'm sure I'll be waiting for awhile

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[deleted] t1_j7wf8y2 wrote

[deleted]

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7wjb79 wrote

If it's true, then you should have any issue backing it up with verified news stories or legal proceedings that occurred from it rather than just word from some guy on the internet.

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LobsterSuspicious836 t1_j7wks5m wrote

https://youtu.be/f_PyTwXPre8

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7wvvvq wrote

Please see my previous comment. That video is literally, "some guy on the internet."

Show something with some proof to it.

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[deleted] t1_j7x13td wrote

[deleted]

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7x1mvq wrote

News articles say he wasn't fired for that....

The earth is flat. I've been to the edge of it. I've seen it. There's your primary source saying the earth is flat. Not back up by anything, but me, the primary source. To question my declaration would be ludacris!

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[deleted] t1_j7x3w1m wrote

[deleted]

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7x7ybj wrote

I set it up? Fire away.

I didn't say he was right. I wrote that he wasn't fired for that based on an article....nothing to do with him being right. I said he wasn't fired for....what did you say....oh, being white. And to take it further, wasn't fired because of the video.

An ad hominem would be saying you're a dumbass for believing it that without actual proof.

To perform another ad hominem, you're a dumbass if you think that one page document says quotas. I didn't seem to catch racial quotas anywhere there.....almost like it's not breaking the law.

Oh, and is the teachers union the school making the hiring decisions? Oh, they're not? Because the teachers union isn't in charge of UVM....so a union and say things it wants....because it's not the hiring authority? Holy shit! Glad we could come to that realization together to figure out the teachers union isn't UVM!

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[deleted] t1_j7x994i wrote

[deleted]

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Eagle_Arm t1_j7xxbx9 wrote

Two in a....working group....to build reports. Holy shit, if you're going to UVM, I'm glad I didn't attend there, not much for standards.

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lantonas t1_j7se6mg wrote

Might as well just go fully remote.

We know how well that works right?

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BobDope t1_j7stu7z wrote

Vermont is better than this. Signed

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tdoottdoot t1_j7tq0dr wrote

signed.

it’s like they want VSU to fail. when I was at LSC, 3/4 of the time it felt like the library was the only place to go in the evening. I would have dropped out without it.

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inthepines3000 t1_j7vwsou wrote

Library isn't closing. They are trying to make it more like a gathering space for students to do all kinds of collaborative things. High Ed libraries have been going this way for at least a decade now.

From 2010- - https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-dawn-of-the-bookless-library

https://the-digital-reader.com/why-college-libraries-are-going-bookless/

\https://www.library.gatech.edu/library-next

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/college-students-arent-checking-out-books/590305/

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Twombls t1_j7uioot wrote

Okay they think they are desperate enough to cut the library to save costs. They say the university can function fine without this critical resource. It will just be more difficult for people who utilize this resource

If they are that desperate mabye the new president and executive board should all cut their salaries to 40k a year. You can technically survive off of that salary. It will just be more difficult.

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Dadfart802 t1_j7uhts5 wrote

For the life of me, I can't understand why the state keeps sucking resources from other state schools (especially Castleton) to prop up failing schools in the Kingdom. Its going to result in all the schools declining in quality. I feel like the state just wants CCV, UVM and then rich, private colleges.

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Jo-Jo-66- t1_j7up1tr wrote

Signed. They should look to other ways to cut costs . Shortsighted and irresponsible for a place of higher learning.

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Flimsy_Patience_7780 t1_j7vp1ue wrote

I went hardcore in the comment section. I hope they don’t do this.

An educational institution that does not see the value of physical books is not focused on education at all.

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GetGeronimo t1_j80uh47 wrote

Time to innovate these spaces.

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Own-Safe-4683 t1_j7wmxvj wrote

I got my MILS all online (mostly during covid). I got everything I needed from the school library virtually. As long as there are lobby areas and a student center where students can meet to work together the students will be fine. If enrollment goes down & students cite the lack of a library for choosing another school they'll bring it back.

I do think that the school will need to invest in really good wifi everywhere in campus so students can access information at all times.

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7wnbeb wrote

Just because it worked for you doesn't mean it works for everybody. The nature of learning is that everyone does it differently. Having E-Books as an option? Thats great! But it should be a choice, not the standard.

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Own-Safe-4683 t1_j7woxwm wrote

It worked for everyone during covid because we were not given a choice. It also works for the tens of thousands who earn degrees online every year. Just because something is different doesn't mean it's bad.

I learned a bunch of different ways where you can have the book read aloud. With an app or in the browser. This helped keep my reading on track, especially the unnecessarily wordy chapters. I learned how to take notes from ebooks too. I learned new skills when presented with a new situation.

I have teen kids. They don't have textbooks at school. Starting in 4th grade (my youngest) the public schools started to buy textbook material online. A couple years they didn't have any source material for math. So for students entering college right out of HS electronic source material is nothing new.

If Vermont is interested is equity they might use free text books. Those are 100% digital too.

All the research databases are online and have been for decades.

There will still need to be librarians. To develop the collection, to train faculty & students on how best to access the material & to answer questions. You can work from home now. That doesn't sound so bad.

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TheFoodProphet t1_j7xo3sf wrote

It absolutely did not "work for everyone." It worked for a selection of students in certain majors and fields where most of their required materials were already available in an online format. The rest got a cobbled together pile of JUST OK, and that's only if they had a damn good library team who worked their collective asses off to get students the things they needed.
Things you may not know if you weren't in the librarian trenches during quarantine (from a 15+ year veteran of academic librarianship):

* A lot of the fancy databases full of content that helped students get through the pandemic? THE PEOPLE WHO SELL US THOSE GAVE US A SWEET DEAL OR GAVE IT TO US FOR FREE FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME, due to the unprecedented nature of what the world was dealing with. They did this out of the goodness of their hearts..... OH WAIT, no, sorry, I mean they did it to get our students hooked on their content so we'd have to then keep the subscription once the free trial wore off the next year or else have sad, angry mobs of students. One the one hand, I'm glad the students were finally using all our digital collections! But on the other hand, those things are NOT cheap and they gouge us more every year because we don't own any of the content, just license to view it on a yearly fee basis.

* We broke copyright. We broke copyright A LOT. Like A LOT A LOT. Every single academic librarian I know did exactly the same. There was a general consensus until, I think, partway into 2021, that temporarily stretched the "fair use" clause we labor within to infinity and beyond. We basically ignored copyright and did what we had to do to keep schools afloat. Some of the bigger, richer, fancier schools managed to implement a Controlled Digital Lending solution of some kind to maintain their copyright purity practices - the "one copy, one loan" idea. The rest of us? We did what we had to do to keep our universities open and keep our jobs because without them we'd lose our health insurance and get Covid and die.

* The pandemic pushed academia as a whole to adopt MUCH BETTER policies with regards to digital materials and digital access, including the move to OERs (Open Educational Resources, i.e. the "free text books" you describe). Some profs moved to them out of need, some profs moved to them because they were directed to. But lots of profs said nope, I'MMA TEACH THIS HOW I ALWAYS TEACH IT HARRUMPH. And while I don't like working with that type of mindset in a professor, at the same time, it is a royal pain in the butt to change your course's textbook because it means you have to re-write your entire curriculum. And considering how many classes are taught by adjuncts making less than a living wage, they do not have the time to be rewriting their entire class to a new book. Sometimes it's the department that mandates which books to use. Those of us who are in charge of Course Reserves are often met with profs who insist on using the out-of-print version of a textbook rather than change their ways, so.... good luck with that? Now that we follow copyright to the letter again, we can only scan and provide up to a small portion of each text. And those digital books cost WAAAAAAAY more than anybody outside of libraries realize. What you pay for a digital book of any kind, textbook or romance novel on kindle, add a zero to the end of your price and you'll approximate the low end of what it costs a library to buy it. OR, I should say, buy the opportunity for our users to view it under certain conditions, because we don't usually actually own them. Greedy publishers gonna greedy.

* The research databases that have been "online for decades"? Um... did you use a research database in 2003, per chance? Because I did. LOL they were NOT what we have now. We were still forming complex boolean phrases and stuff then to get a tiny fraction of what is available now, and even then, it was only to get the abstract and citation. THEN we went hunting for either the physical copy or, sometimes, a digital one, but it was still iffy. Yes, I'm old, etc etc. When I was in college, a few short years before that in the late 90s, I'd spent my entire undergrad life using a DIAL-UP MODEM to get search a text-based version of the library catalog. These modern databases haven't been around for as long as you think. That said, yes students are better at reading things online these days. HELL, I was an early adopter of reading things online rather than print when I got to grad school 20 years ago, mostly because printing costs were high and reading online was free. BUT NO MATTER HOW EASY online reading is, not everything is online, especially in any humanities degree program or a major that requires you to learn history of some kind. And even if these databases have technically been around this long, students come into my library every day not knowing how to use them at all, or what awesome other stuff the library has that they can access, digitally or otherwise.

I want to live in this world where a sudden, shifty move to ONLINE ONLY LIBRARIES makes sense, but holy crap we are nowhere near there yet so please slow your roll.

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Own-Safe-4683 t1_j7xsw3p wrote

One university system in a tiny state moving to an online library is not the whole world getting rid of library buildings. Take a deep breath.

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TheFoodProphet t1_j7xvqxm wrote

i type with my fingers not my breath

i type pretty fast

I think pretty fast

I know it's not the whole world (🙄) but it is the kind of move more and more impoverished schools are going to try or are already thinking of trying. This is only the tip of that iceburg.

We saved our colleges and universities during Covid, no joke. But once the crisis ended our budgets get cut again, layoffs ensue, etc etc. academia business as usual.

this is my career and livelihood and I depend on it to pay my ever-climbing rent and keep my health insurance stable so my disabled spouse can stay alive, so yeah, I take it pretty seriously, dude. I've been overeducated, underpaid and under-appreciated for too long so I'm fairly cynical, full of thoughts and opinions, and exist only by the grace of coffee and cardigans. 🤷‍♀️ welcome to the internet?

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7wqbgj wrote

Just because you say it worked for everyone doesn't mean it actually did. I'm an MFA Student, and I TA'd for a completely asynchronous class last semester. There were a lot of students that struggled, and some who just didn't hand assignments in.

Assignments aside, I personally don't remember a lot from the classes I took during the beginning of the pandemic. Sure, students might have been there, but did they actually learn anything?

Just because something is "good enough" doesn't mean its better. And in our Campus, some of the Librarians were already told that their last days are in July when the merger goes into effect.

It's important to speak out against this because its completely unnecessary. Its trying to fix something that is not broken, and making it worse in the process.

The change.org petition has nearly 500 signatures, so clearly a lot of Vermonters disagree with what you have to say.

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inthepines3000 t1_j7vx6ka wrote

This isn't new.

From 2010- - https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-dawn-of-the-bookless-library

https://the-digital-reader.com/why-college-libraries-are-going-bookless/

\https://www.library.gatech.edu/library-next

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/college-students-arent-checking-out-books/590305/

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7vxe1v wrote

The concept of course its not new. But the actual real decision that is affecting my campus and the other VSU campuses is.

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Pristine_Tension8399 t1_j7w0hyg wrote

You have to save money somewhere. The library and sports programs seem like two good places to do so. Everything is online anyway.

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prettypeepers OP t1_j7w139r wrote

I'm not knowledgeable on the sports side of things, but on the library side of things, you will find that this decision is way more costly than keeping things as they are. An institution that values learning in any capacity should understand that not everybody wants to stare at a screen all day.

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Meep_Librarian t1_j82kt25 wrote

Everything is not online and even if it was there is a huge problem called the digital divide. Not everyone has the same access to the internet. Libraries help close that divide in more than one way. A bigger issue is digital literacy, we may be in the most technological era so far but that does not mean people know how to work within it.

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TheFoodProphet t1_j7xke5l wrote

With all due respect, NO, not everything is online. Only a small chunk of the world's print collections have been digitized. Also, not everything online is free, or available at all to most of us due to a messy web of copyright restrictions around the world. Yes, much of what is newly published today comes in digital format as well, but what about the thousands of years of printed records we have behind us? If you think "just digitize them" is a solution, I can tell you that librarians and archivists like me have been doing just that very thing for decades now and have only made a tiny dent in the world's knowledge supply. Digitization is a slow, costly process that has a myriad of legal pitfalls in your way due to copyright. And even if we wanted to only buy digital copies of new publications from here on out, don't think that the price you pay Amazon for a kindle book is what libraries pay for our digital books. OH, NO, we pay a complex and exorbitant pile of money for licensing fees to the publishers (10x your price or more) EVERY YEAR, who often then limit how many people we can check it out to, for how long, and then sometimes if you buy access to a big book collection they will randomly remove a bunch of books from it with no warning. This idea is ludicrious.

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Kyzer t1_j7u692m wrote

Maybe they should convert those libraries into student housing.

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