Anyone familiar with the 'Worker Relocation Incentive Program'

Submitted by Blindsay04 t3_11awub8 in vermont

Hey all,

Moved to VT last year and as part of that my company switched me to a permanent remote worker which is what made my move to VT even possible, so as part of that I applied for this program through the state.

Program for reference: https://thinkvermont.com/relocation-incentives/

Filled out all the info December 1st and I didn't want to bother them so I didn't follow up for a while till finally January 6th after not hearing anything. Turns out there was a typo in my work email address domain that they needed for employment verification so my employer never got to fill out their part (little frustrated they didn't mention the email didn't go through or they were still waiting on my employer). Asked if they would cc my work email address on the resend just so I could follow up and make sure it went through but they refused. Finally after some back and forth my employer confirmed they filled it out. Follow up with the state and got a 'we are busy we will look at it when we can' reply even though i was just trying to make sure it had what they needed and wouldn't get stuck in limbo again. Followed up again a week later and was informed I've effectively been bumped to the back of the queue because of this all and they gave me a link to check the status which literally just says 'in queue'.

I don't so much care about the time but it is frustrating to be bumped back in the queue, I was not trying to bother them about checking on the status but it was just stuck in limbo for so long only to find out there was a problem. It has been 6 weeks since they confirmed my employer filled it out and their website still just says 'in queue'

Curious if anyone else has dealt with this program at all?

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Affectionate_Cod_348 t1_j9ulkrm wrote

Expect nothing. I tried to go through the program in 2019 and they ghosted me for months only to tell me that they’d run out of funds long before my submission.

To be fair, that pretty much set the tone for living here. Getting ghosted and told “sorry, I can’t help you” after weekly check ins is pretty much the norm from state agencies, contractors, etc.

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RZRPRINCESS t1_j9un38i wrote

I recently heard they ran out of funds because of the influx of remote workers moving here and applying for the incentive. They were also trying to figure out how to start funding for this program back up again. I have a feeling it has stalled since the state now has a housing shortage and probably other pressing issues to attend to.

Also a staffing shortage....which is ironic?

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hotseltzer t1_j9uuznx wrote

Gee, I wonder why the entire state has a staffing shortage.. it's almost as if the influx of people with remote jobs drove up housing prices, making it unaffordable for Vermonters to stay here, so now every business is left without staff and unable to keep up with necessary pay increases to retain people because... remote workers don't need jobs within our communities.

Saying the staffing shortage is ironic is about as ironic as Alanis Morissette's song.

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Affectionate_Cod_348 t1_j9uoeg3 wrote

Like most state funded programs in Vermont, it's comically underfunded/understaffed so it really only exists enough to exist as a "box checking" activity for the state.

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sound_of_apocalypto t1_j9ut2ck wrote

Not to pick on you, but it shouldn’t rely on a “feeling” (even though I feel the same). Why can’t they just update a website with the current status of the program? If they’re overwhelmed and out of money, getting the word out might save them the hassle of a lot of extra emails and phone calls.

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GreenPL8 t1_j9uy5u9 wrote

They've said they have more application in queue than funds to pay out. Weeks/months ago.

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sixteenandseven t1_j9xhxeg wrote

Also a staffing shortage....which is ironic?

Not ironic at all. We're a wicked fucking old state, so we have tons of houses occupied by non-working retirees who can afford it because they either bought when real estate was cheap or have a good enough retirement (boomer retirement plans) to be able to afford a pricey place.

Meanwhile, there's just not housing available for someone making $20/hr, so places that rely on <= $20 workers can't find workers.

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nolyfe27 t1_j9z6utj wrote

They have fattened themselves for the slaughter.

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RZRPRINCESS t1_ja7qio2 wrote

It's Ironic because the incentive was to bring young people to Vermont but now we have a lot of "younger" people that have moved here but they are working remote for non-Vermont based companies. Now people are upset because everything is so short-staffed here, but where was the incentive to get the people running the state to stay? Now they can't afford homes, their pay hasn't increased in years and the cost of living is ridiculous, the people that are working for local places are working 2+ jobs, it's just not sustainable.

So ultimately the whole remote incentive plan kind of backfired.

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kellyinacherrytree t1_j9uja4j wrote

I wouldn’t get any hopes up. Far too many people applied and the state workers are probably overworked. Should’ve given out incentives for working VT state jobs, not out of state jobs, but what do I know?

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Blindsay04 OP t1_j9ulb7e wrote

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the point of the program to bring new people to the state? IE now VT is getting my income taxes that were previously going to another state

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Vermontess t1_j9v5c9y wrote

It was an idea cooked up by the State to increase tax revenue before the Covid immigration wave crashed on VT. Different times

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No-Ganache7168 t1_j9w1075 wrote

Except Gov. Scott keeps renewing it when they are not filling open jobs here and the housing market is a mess

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Loudergood t1_j9wit12 wrote

The whole point was for them to bring high paying jobs with them, not staff 24hr maple fields.

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No-Ganache7168 t1_j9yj6ja wrote

Why not offer it to those who can fill the good paying jobs here like tech and nursing? Otherwise they are just bringing their income tax. Both would be better.

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Loudergood t1_j9yk22t wrote

Those jobs are already guaranteed to pay their taxes here. Bringing in new taxpaying jobs means this program pays for itself. We have plenty of underpaid locals I'd rather train up for these jobs instead.

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Blindsay04 OP t1_j9vcd48 wrote

A bunch of people came to VT during covid? and that is causing an issue? Just trying to understand the problem is all

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Vermontess t1_j9vj2g0 wrote

The huge influx of well heeled remote workers has almost doubled average home and rent prices over the last five years. Folks that cannot afford the huge increases are being forced to move and there is a massive dearth of workers for entry level, service, and trades jobs. There are definitely other factors at play, but that was the main driving force behind the huge run up in housing prices.

It’s highly questionable why the State would continue to use tax dollars to incentivize rich people moving here while they are slashing/ending all the emergency housing programs that are keeping people off the streets

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Blindsay04 OP t1_j9vlrl2 wrote

I see, thanks for the explanation. Even if the state is offering this money up front, wont they get significantly more in the long run from the taxes off of these people? Looking at the population data, it looks like VT increased in population about 3.5%, Also home prices are insane everywhere right now, not just in VT

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Vermontess t1_j9vybzu wrote

There isn’t good data yet about how much the population has grown over the last couple years. We have been operating at a negative growth rate for decades so even a 3.5% increase year over year would impact the housing stock as it compounds very quickly to a significant number.

I hear what you are saying about tax revenue, but remote workers are straining our housing and labor markets and crippling our economy in ways that will cost us far more than they are able to contribute in income taxes. The money is better spent on those less fortunate. Covid, climate, and red state refugees will continue to flock here without tax incentives

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random_vermonter t1_j9wt3wc wrote

It was a dumb fucking idea cooked up by the AirBNB owners/representatives in Montpelier.

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Trajikbpm t1_j9uk39a wrote

Imo it was kind of a scam. I know people moved here and because their position didn't pay a certain amount in wages they were disqualified. Of course the wages Vermont wanted you to make were far above what most of the positions paid. But that was a couple years ago.

But it must work for some...

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GreenPL8 t1_j9uyee9 wrote

>Wage for the position equals or exceeds the Vermont livable wage rate. Currently the livable wage rate is $15.33 per hour.

That's... not that much.

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Trajikbpm t1_j9vastr wrote

Two years ago not many places were paying that and its barely a living wage but that's a different topic.

Like it wanted someone working a grocery job making 15+ lol. Two years ago they were lucky to get 12.

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GreenPL8 t1_j9vck54 wrote

From the state's point of view they probably don't want to incentivize an influx of cheap labor to be exploited by business owners that don't pay a living wage, and end up taking more in government services than the state is prepared for. Instead,. Of course, they want high paid workers who will pay more state taxes.

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Trajikbpm t1_j9vd68r wrote

Yes I understand that and that's the same answer people gave last time and you're right. But it still doesn't make it less of bait and switch. Especially how it's broadcasted all over the place yet the wage thing is in small print that you can find by clicking here and then here.

Doesn't do shit for me anyway lol.

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cpujockey t1_j9umfb8 wrote

well that sucks.

then again - I've never been a fan of this program - too many of us folks here have been gouged on housing (yes I know it's not just a vermont problem). Just seems wrong to give money to folks moving here that are doing remote work, I get they need tax money, but we could make more tax money on making an investment on new exports from the state rather than importing folks that are bringing money in from other places.

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Blindsay04 OP t1_j9unm25 wrote

Just trying to understand your point of view, why is me bringing a remote job bad? I'd also add that it means in addition to my taxes, I spend money at local businesses

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cpujockey t1_j9upo6c wrote

> Just trying to understand your point of view

I'll say it - I am an asshole. Born and bred Vermonter. Grew up low income (welfare).

> why is me bringing a remote job bad?

We're not making enough exports. Our economy is based on tourism and hospitality which is awful. This provides few opportunities for people to make good money (above 40k), and with the cost of living being outrageous here, it's hard to keep folks employed and housed. The effect of all this causes a lot of folks born here to move away and seek opportunities elsewhere, eroding our culture and perpetuating this revolving door of natives out - out of state folks in. I get that this has been the norm since the 70's, but it's shit.

> I'd also add that it means in addition to my taxes, I spend money at local businesses

good! but be sure you're actually going to local businesses and using their services. Do NOT use things like uber, instacart or door dash. While those companies give money to local vermonters, you're giving money to companies that operate in tax havens and their labor practices are dog shit.

Lastly - my problem is not with you or who you are. I am certain you're an upstanding citizen and probably a cool person. My problem is that the state made a system to import people here for financial gain while a lot of us are suffering. Natives like myself have NO incentives to stay in Vermont. I know I romanticize this a bit and call it my birth place, home state, and what ever, but this is where I grew up, this is where I have kids, this is where my family is. Other folks tell us natives that we're problematic for having an opinion on it - while we're being priced out of the market while living in what the real estate folks called "the most moved in state" during the pandemic. My family roots run pretty deep - but I am no mountain man, or redneck - just a guy that grew up in poverty and managed to get somewhere and now hitting more roadblocks now that I have the money to accomplish all the goals I set growing up. I've been told that nearly everything about my life, family and way of life here is wrong, and that I need to move out (not by you, but others).

at the end of the day - it's entitled flatlanders coming here that piss me off. A bunch of them came in on a free 7k ticket and got an immediate jump on home ownership or what not - while the rest of us are struggling to stay housed.

I hope that brought some clarity to this discussion without entirely coming off like an asshole.

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Blindsay04 OP t1_j9utwsm wrote

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I actually grew up just across the river in NH, finished school there and couldn't find a job locally so I ended up in MA. I was in MA until my work finally allowed us to work remotely permanently and that's how I ended up here.

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GreenPL8 t1_j9uz113 wrote

I think the problem with a lot of these conversation is that Vermont does not exist in a vacuum. If wealth is built faster outside of Vermont than people who stay here will continue to fall behind.

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cpujockey t1_j9uzpvm wrote

> If wealth is built faster outside of Vermont than people who stay here will continue to fall behind

which is why we need to embolden production and incentivize manufacturing / craft goods exports. pretty much we just need to make shit and get it out there.

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GreenPL8 t1_j9v2rav wrote

Shouldn't the market demand these Vermont craft goods already if that's a viable path for economic growth? The state incentivizing it won't create more demand. If the demand isn't there I'm not sure what creating more supply will do.

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cpujockey t1_j9v34ci wrote

k.

Well there is a demand for a lot of things. I am sorry I did not draft a business plan or prospectus to submit to you to see how such and investment would play out. I am just a dude with a high school diploma - I am not an economist. I can tell you though that a services based economy is dog shit. Production is the only way.

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Blindsay04 OP t1_j9vz86y wrote

Not sure why this was downvoted so much? Legit was just trying to understand the problem

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Vermontess t1_j9w5m5h wrote

There won’t be local businesses to spend money at if workers can’t afford to live here. Every small business owner I know is completely hamstrung and stagnant, barely holding on for lack of workers. They can’t pay their employees enough to afford living here.

This has also driven up the costs of local goods and services. We’ve all seen the posts here from entitled tourists and newcomers bemoaning the high costs, long waits, diminished level of service, lack of amenities, and shortened business hours that have resulted from the employee shortage

We are headed towards the gridlock that many ski mountain towns out west are experiencing. They are even seizing land through eminent domain to build affordable housing for locals and prevent ski companies from growing any further. They’re even actively tamping down tourism to give locals a chance to recover

https://www.adventure-journal.com/2022/10/colorado-town-seizing-ski-resorts-land-to-stop-it-building-employee-housing/

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Blindsay04 OP t1_j9waai9 wrote

I'm not saying it isn't an issue but there is not any proof it is a result of remote worker jobs. Plenty of other areas are also having similar issues. And my remote job certainly did not impact the living options for a local and I definitely contribute to local businesses. I could commute into my office but that would be wasteful all around and VT would get less tax money in the process.

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Vermontess t1_j9wdl81 wrote

Ive asked several landlords and they all say the same thing. Every time an apartment becomes available they get dozens of applications within a couple of days. Nine times out of ten the best candidate is a remote worker. They’ve even offered to pay above the advertised rent when things were at their most insane in 2021.

How are local workers supposed to find housing? Where are local businesses going to find staff?

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GreenPL8 t1_j9uyqs4 wrote

What sort of new exports from the state?

If you think about it a program like this for remote workers is exporting knowledge work.

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cpujockey t1_j9uzk6n wrote

> What sort of new exports from the state?

anything really at this point. furniture, guitars, alpaca wool cock sheaths - whatever it takes for us to move our industry from service work to production.

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GreenPL8 t1_j9v29l5 wrote

Why does it need to be physical exports?

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cpujockey t1_j9v2jmy wrote

doesn't have to be. but manufacturing jobs have a lot of personnel required for operations which means more jobs for regular folks.

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Blueslide60 t1_j9y9dts wrote

Manufacturers won’t move here. VT cannot afford them. You need to pay huge tax concessions (like this dumass program). If a mfr. start here, they won’t stay (VCFA, Burton etc).

This program will get applicants like OP, that move here for other reasons and get the 10 grand as a bonus. VT is an unaffordable state but the USA has major economic issues that it’s ignoring.

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Aesopscorp t1_j9vriat wrote

You get nothing,nada, zero, zilch. Said in a wonka like voice.

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GreenPL8 t1_j9uxyhz wrote

I successfully completed this program.

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Blindsay04 OP t1_j9uyqxn wrote

About how long did it take from when you applied to when you received it?

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GreenPL8 t1_j9v239e wrote

I applied a few days after the program started up again last year, to hold my place in line. I sent in "I've moved" paperwork the day I got my first VT paycheck and was paid with a check a few weeks later. Very fast, imo.

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computaSaysYes t1_ja0mrjk wrote

Do you have prove any moving expenses? Or is it just a flat payout to those who get in line in time?

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