Submitted by Blindsay04 t3_11awub8 in vermont
cpujockey t1_j9umfb8 wrote
well that sucks.
then again - I've never been a fan of this program - too many of us folks here have been gouged on housing (yes I know it's not just a vermont problem). Just seems wrong to give money to folks moving here that are doing remote work, I get they need tax money, but we could make more tax money on making an investment on new exports from the state rather than importing folks that are bringing money in from other places.
Blindsay04 OP t1_j9unm25 wrote
Just trying to understand your point of view, why is me bringing a remote job bad? I'd also add that it means in addition to my taxes, I spend money at local businesses
cpujockey t1_j9upo6c wrote
> Just trying to understand your point of view
I'll say it - I am an asshole. Born and bred Vermonter. Grew up low income (welfare).
> why is me bringing a remote job bad?
We're not making enough exports. Our economy is based on tourism and hospitality which is awful. This provides few opportunities for people to make good money (above 40k), and with the cost of living being outrageous here, it's hard to keep folks employed and housed. The effect of all this causes a lot of folks born here to move away and seek opportunities elsewhere, eroding our culture and perpetuating this revolving door of natives out - out of state folks in. I get that this has been the norm since the 70's, but it's shit.
> I'd also add that it means in addition to my taxes, I spend money at local businesses
good! but be sure you're actually going to local businesses and using their services. Do NOT use things like uber, instacart or door dash. While those companies give money to local vermonters, you're giving money to companies that operate in tax havens and their labor practices are dog shit.
Lastly - my problem is not with you or who you are. I am certain you're an upstanding citizen and probably a cool person. My problem is that the state made a system to import people here for financial gain while a lot of us are suffering. Natives like myself have NO incentives to stay in Vermont. I know I romanticize this a bit and call it my birth place, home state, and what ever, but this is where I grew up, this is where I have kids, this is where my family is. Other folks tell us natives that we're problematic for having an opinion on it - while we're being priced out of the market while living in what the real estate folks called "the most moved in state" during the pandemic. My family roots run pretty deep - but I am no mountain man, or redneck - just a guy that grew up in poverty and managed to get somewhere and now hitting more roadblocks now that I have the money to accomplish all the goals I set growing up. I've been told that nearly everything about my life, family and way of life here is wrong, and that I need to move out (not by you, but others).
at the end of the day - it's entitled flatlanders coming here that piss me off. A bunch of them came in on a free 7k ticket and got an immediate jump on home ownership or what not - while the rest of us are struggling to stay housed.
I hope that brought some clarity to this discussion without entirely coming off like an asshole.
Blindsay04 OP t1_j9utwsm wrote
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I actually grew up just across the river in NH, finished school there and couldn't find a job locally so I ended up in MA. I was in MA until my work finally allowed us to work remotely permanently and that's how I ended up here.
cpujockey t1_j9uybpy wrote
no problem. thank you for reading.
GreenPL8 t1_j9uz113 wrote
I think the problem with a lot of these conversation is that Vermont does not exist in a vacuum. If wealth is built faster outside of Vermont than people who stay here will continue to fall behind.
cpujockey t1_j9uzpvm wrote
> If wealth is built faster outside of Vermont than people who stay here will continue to fall behind
which is why we need to embolden production and incentivize manufacturing / craft goods exports. pretty much we just need to make shit and get it out there.
GreenPL8 t1_j9v2rav wrote
Shouldn't the market demand these Vermont craft goods already if that's a viable path for economic growth? The state incentivizing it won't create more demand. If the demand isn't there I'm not sure what creating more supply will do.
cpujockey t1_j9v34ci wrote
k.
Well there is a demand for a lot of things. I am sorry I did not draft a business plan or prospectus to submit to you to see how such and investment would play out. I am just a dude with a high school diploma - I am not an economist. I can tell you though that a services based economy is dog shit. Production is the only way.
Blindsay04 OP t1_j9vz86y wrote
Not sure why this was downvoted so much? Legit was just trying to understand the problem
Vermontess t1_j9w5m5h wrote
There won’t be local businesses to spend money at if workers can’t afford to live here. Every small business owner I know is completely hamstrung and stagnant, barely holding on for lack of workers. They can’t pay their employees enough to afford living here.
This has also driven up the costs of local goods and services. We’ve all seen the posts here from entitled tourists and newcomers bemoaning the high costs, long waits, diminished level of service, lack of amenities, and shortened business hours that have resulted from the employee shortage
We are headed towards the gridlock that many ski mountain towns out west are experiencing. They are even seizing land through eminent domain to build affordable housing for locals and prevent ski companies from growing any further. They’re even actively tamping down tourism to give locals a chance to recover
Blindsay04 OP t1_j9waai9 wrote
I'm not saying it isn't an issue but there is not any proof it is a result of remote worker jobs. Plenty of other areas are also having similar issues. And my remote job certainly did not impact the living options for a local and I definitely contribute to local businesses. I could commute into my office but that would be wasteful all around and VT would get less tax money in the process.
Vermontess t1_j9wdl81 wrote
Ive asked several landlords and they all say the same thing. Every time an apartment becomes available they get dozens of applications within a couple of days. Nine times out of ten the best candidate is a remote worker. They’ve even offered to pay above the advertised rent when things were at their most insane in 2021.
How are local workers supposed to find housing? Where are local businesses going to find staff?
GreenPL8 t1_j9uyqs4 wrote
What sort of new exports from the state?
If you think about it a program like this for remote workers is exporting knowledge work.
cpujockey t1_j9uzk6n wrote
> What sort of new exports from the state?
anything really at this point. furniture, guitars, alpaca wool cock sheaths - whatever it takes for us to move our industry from service work to production.
GreenPL8 t1_j9v29l5 wrote
Why does it need to be physical exports?
cpujockey t1_j9v2jmy wrote
doesn't have to be. but manufacturing jobs have a lot of personnel required for operations which means more jobs for regular folks.
Blueslide60 t1_j9y9dts wrote
Manufacturers won’t move here. VT cannot afford them. You need to pay huge tax concessions (like this dumass program). If a mfr. start here, they won’t stay (VCFA, Burton etc).
This program will get applicants like OP, that move here for other reasons and get the 10 grand as a bonus. VT is an unaffordable state but the USA has major economic issues that it’s ignoring.
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