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DirtyBirdNJ t1_j8ekwbf wrote

You can go ice fishing you just have to be willing to call it off if conditions are unsafe. Always wear ice spikes, never go alone. Bring a spud bar, use and auger or drill to check ice depth. Don't drag all your shit on the ice, have a smaller setup on foot. Don't use a snowmobile or ATV unless you have to.

Use your head! It's not worth dying over but not seeing why ppl are still going for it is an empathy failure. The behavior isn't ok but shaming and hitting with the stick won't teach people to make safe choices.


Patience is hard. Have compassion for yourself and others about this.

Find other ways to enjoy VT / go fishing till safe temp open water returns. Or drive north and use your head to find safe ice.


Ok-Fun9346 t1_j8en247 wrote

Always be willing to abort seems to be a hard life skill to learn. Whether it's not going out on questionable ice or not finishing a bad book, people push through and do the thing even if it's questionable way too often.


DirtyBirdNJ t1_j8enkrh wrote

Cannot stress enough the way to achieve this is to be more compassionate to yourself and others when things don't go to plan.

Man we really wanted to go fishing, because we have fun together. Let's find other things to do instead can actually be a VERY hard pivot to make. Even for fun things with people you like.

Compassion for yourself and others. Accept no substitutes.


Ok-Fun9346 t1_j8ewpas wrote

For sure. On multiple occasions I've gotten myself up early to go hiking and arrived at the trail head for my dog to start acting squirrelly or an unexpected rain shower to make that one rocky section slick and dangerous. It sucks, but I'd rather pivot than put us in an unsafe situation


bonanzapineapple t1_j8fhpuk wrote

Yeah, one time I was hiking Mt Moosilauke and had to turn around 75% of the way to the top cuz of lightning. No way I want to be above tree line for that


notsogoodwolf t1_j8fmi3k wrote

My dog got an ice burr between his toes so I turned back right before treeline. Super frustrating...but the mountain isn't going anywhere....


timberwolf0122 t1_j8eswp8 wrote

The GOP want to make it mandatory to take a fishing trip to full term, no exceptions


Sudden_Dragonfly2638 t1_j8fhx4p wrote

This is the sunk cost fallacy and almost everyone does it. The first step to avoiding it is understanding it.


GraniteGeekNH t1_j8flj77 wrote

replace "fishing" with "hiking" and your all-caps paragraph has been said about 10,000 times in the White Mountain National Forest subreddit

people don't listen there, either


greenmtnfiddler t1_j8gr3es wrote

Wait, there's a sub for that?


GraniteGeekNH t1_j8icbzn wrote



ranaparvus t1_j8e7ewd wrote

Seriously. I was driving down route 30 yesterday and there were countless people on the ice of Lake Hortonia and Bomoseen. It was 44 degrees!!! And some were out there with kids. ☹️


Playingwithmyrod t1_j8ebg5h wrote

You can ice fish in warm weather just fine as long as the ice is still thick. I've done it in 60 degree weather in March before. The top layer starts to melt but the integrity of the ice under it doesn't just instantly fail.


meinblown t1_j8elnsz wrote

Yeah but the problem is the ice never got thick in the first place this winter.


Playingwithmyrod t1_j8epu1c wrote

How thick was it?


Fromage_Damage t1_j8fy23v wrote

A guy at my work was out there earlier in the day. He said it was 8-10" close to shore, and got thinner as you went out. They got to where it was 5" and turned around. 4-6" is recommended for ATVs. The guys were in a side by side which is almost a VW beetle sized ATV. I'm guessing 4" of ice. In the first week of January, the lake temp was still in the 50s! Crazy.


meinblown t1_j8f1bzu wrote

No fucking clue. I don't take my ass out on the lake ever.


Playingwithmyrod t1_j8f22du wrote

Oh I figured you must know since you're saying it wasn't thick enough all winter.


meinblown t1_j8f37it wrote

I actually talk to other people believe it or not.


Playingwithmyrod t1_j8f5c66 wrote

How thick did they say it was?


Raekwaanza t1_j8f6lcs wrote

To get to the point, because of how warm December and January were it is likely that no where on the lake got thick enough to safely walk on on warm days like this. Even when it was very cold these past few weeks I wasn’t even seeing ice where I am.


Dead_Squirrel_6 t1_j8epryd wrote

I'm sure that's what all these guys told their families before they went in. Not worth the risk.


SkiingAway t1_j8fy2s2 wrote

What matters is ice thickness, not air temperature.

They're not that closely related, and there's plenty of times when it's warm out, there's big puddles all over and it's perfectly safe to be on the ice. (and plenty of times of the inverse).

That said, common sense should prevail - if it hasn't been a very cold winter and it's recently been ought to be checking more carefully than normal. And certainly shouldn't be winging it.


Playingwithmyrod t1_j8ert2r wrote

The air temperature has very little to do with ice safety. If some temporary warm air makes it unsafe it wasn't safe to begin with. People who go ice skating when it's 20 and don't bother to check the ice thickness are at much greater danger than an ice fisherman fishing in the 40s who spuds their way out onto the ice. Things like underwater springs, birds, pressure ridges, rocks, and flowing water are what you should be worrying about because they'll turn a foot of ice into nothing within a few steps.


Dead_Squirrel_6 t1_j8et2hy wrote

Oh? How many old, experienced Vermont ice skaters have fallen through the ice this year?


Playingwithmyrod t1_j8ew4wj wrote

Bottom line no ice is safe until you check it. Ice is variable, there is no "it's safe" or "it's not". It could carry a semi truck and be completely unsafe 100 feet way. Someone falling through isn't indicative of some blanket "the ice isn't safe anyone that's out there is an idiot". Now could they have been idiots fishing on 2 inches of ice? Sure. But we don't know that. When people make assumptions about ice conditions is when people die is my point.


Divio42 t1_j8fexpa wrote

That all sounds like it adds up to "Not worth the risk."


Playingwithmyrod t1_j8ffqht wrote

It's about being careful. Life is full of risks. It doesn't mean we can't enjoy the things we love to do.


Fromage_Damage t1_j8fyft0 wrote

One year, a few years back, we had some guys on December 24th ice fishing on 2 inches of ice. But the water was only 4 feet deep. Even if I know the ice is thick , I bring spikes around my neck, to pull myself out with. I've fallen through over a spring when the ice was thick enough, luckily it was shallow water.


Playingwithmyrod t1_j8fymwq wrote

2 inches is sketch but if it's solid black ice it will still hold you. 3 is my number to feel safe but like you said, I wear spikes always and spud my way around until I'm comfortable with an area.


TheMobyDicks t1_j8em5ud wrote

Lake Bomoseen is weird. The channel at the south end freezes before the lake and then once the lake is fully frozen the channel opens up.


SmoothSlavperator t1_j8expu5 wrote

Bomoseen has springs and shit in it that create thin spots even during cold winters...and then you have all that milfoil which causes soft spots in towards shore....and then you have pressure ridges. You kind of have to look at it, pay attention and talk to people to kind of know where everything is year to year.


[deleted] t1_j8ngcng wrote

Channel is almost never safe to walk on. It's moving water.


TheMobyDicks t1_j8rola0 wrote

Yeah. Grew up there. Never saw anybody on the channel. But the lake was like a city for ice fisherman. This is a long time ago when winters were a lot colder and longer. Way before the digital age and everybody was into ice fishing.


[deleted] t1_j8rwv3d wrote

I would blast top speed up the channel on a snowmobile when I was young and dumb.


TheMobyDicks t1_j8rysua wrote

That's bad ass.

When I was a kid - in the early 80s - some drunks were smashing shantys with their truck in the middle of the night and they killed a guy sleeping in one.

What I did a couple times - admittedly completely asshole move and deserved for the fisherman to beat the shit outta me - was borrow my brother's Big Red Three-Wheeler (yeah, I'm that old) and ride down a line of tip-ups snapping them like twigs while doors busted open on shantys and some angry ass Vermonter would come flying out howling at me. I know it's bad but I'm laughing right now at it because that memory is so damn vivid. Good times.

Of course, as an adult, I got my jeep stolen in DC, so, y'know...karma.


zombienutz1 OP t1_j8e8sy7 wrote

Crazy. Saw people on Indian Brook Reservoir in mid December ice fishing with active open water around the edges.


bcodding t1_j8ehazv wrote

It's pretty normal to have open water around the edges when there's good ice. It's very common for experienced ice recreation folk to bring a plank or ladder to access ice. There's a lot more nuance to each day, time of day, and body of ice for calculating risk, and that's very likely going on for a lot of folks that you might see on the ice. Check out the various local ice recreation groups social media, you'll probably feel a little better about humanity.


zombienutz1 OP t1_j8ej2yd wrote

I guess my post should have been more clearly aimed at the dumb Vermonters.


Disastrous-Baker-914 t1_j8epyyl wrote

How many people have you heard have fallen threw the ice?... is it a epidemic?.. I haven't heard of any and I drive by emerald lake every day and there are people out there living life!. I personally don't have a urge to ice fish, mainly because of the cold but to each there own


zombienutz1 OP t1_j8eqki7 wrote

Did you not click the posted link? Yup living life, for now...


goodbyewindshield t1_j8ei3fw wrote

I'm not an expert but I guess there probably isn't much overlap between Vermonters on Reddit and Vermonters who are out on the ice


GreenPL8 t1_j8ekpwq wrote

I may be in the minority but it's not like I'm going to fall through th-


DirtyBirdNJ t1_j8esxkn wrote

I am that overlap. Not all of the people ice fishing are casually disregarding safety, but no ice is safe either. Failure is always an option prepare for the worst.


Essarray t1_j8fe5yl wrote

The youngest of these three was 62. I'm gonna say age is more of a factor in the lack of overlap. The ice fishing subs and FB groups actually stay kind of busy.


Loudergood t1_j8fsvo5 wrote

You clearly have seen the skater and kiters out near the sandbar.


TheMohawk t1_j8ep5t9 wrote

Tons of people here saying ice fishing is dead and such just have no idea the difference between locations. Would I be on lake Champlain right now? Fuck no. But smaller lakes and ponds still have 6+ inches of ice and are extremely safe to be on with just fishing gear or maybe a 4 wheeler.

However, yesterday was probably one of the last days you'd see me on any body of water. certainly wont be out there again unless we have another long session of cold weather.


These men went out on lake champlain at a remarkably stupid time and paid the price for it, not all fishermen are going to do that shit.


Loudergood t1_j8fsry5 wrote

Yup, we're going to have rotten ice after this.(all kinds of varying thicknesses) you won't be able to trust measurements even a few steps away from the hole.


AutoRot t1_j8e8kp1 wrote

Old fogeys don’t realize that with climate change ice fishing in Vermont is basically done. If you go out on the ice understand that you are taking on a much bigger risk than in the past.


contrary-contrarian t1_j8e9xw0 wrote

There's plenty of ice fishing left... but maybe don't drive your truck out there.


Dvorak_Smells t1_j8egh2o wrote

Tesla ok?


meinblown t1_j8els7u wrote

It weighs more than a truck, so you tell me genius.


8valvegrowl t1_j8eqg91 wrote


Dead_Squirrel_6 t1_j8eqee8 wrote

Yup. Wouldn't catch me dead or alive on that ice. If it's between a few fish and coming home to my family, the choice is easy.


Faerhun t1_j8filyz wrote

They spent so long pretending Climate change wasn't real they started believe their own bullshit.


dillydally85 t1_j8ednsk wrote

You can write out bad words on Reddit. (Fuck, Shit, cunt, cock, asshole) No ones going to wash your mouth out.


Goldentongue t1_j8eeu06 wrote

Do any of these little fuckers ever pop up out of the fucking wall and say "Fuck there's a horse cock in my room" or a "donkey dick"?


Taxedout12901 t1_j8ee9ta wrote

Saw people in Keeler Bay on the ice the day after someone died in Keeler Bay from falling through… survival of the fittest?


Fromage_Damage t1_j8fyp79 wrote

My buddy from work was out there. He said it was safe close to shore, but he went out a ways, measuring every 100 feet, and it got unsafe quick.


Outrageous-Outside61 t1_j8ebc3t wrote

Meh. I was out ice fishing yesterday. Ice is pretty good, just gonna be smart about where you’re going.


fallout17asfd t1_j8eg6p7 wrote

i live in brattleboro and people have ice shanties out on the retreat meadows


VermontZerg t1_j8em5lw wrote

That's fucking insane, the pond nearby me didn't even freeze over this year, crazy to think that people would be out their like that.


Fromage_Damage t1_j8fyves wrote

It's supposed to be haunted, by someone who drowned there. I'd nope right out of that. Only time I go down there is for brunch at The Marina.


Joyride_vt t1_j8em616 wrote



Friggaknows t1_j8eurpz wrote

Hey if the ice is too thin for fishing, try cold water swimming! (Actually not joking, it's fantastic, but have a complete change of clothes and thermos of hot water to drink and pour over your hands after.)


bakerton t1_j8edjzg wrote

Like frozen water or meth?


Lilian-Kaustupper t1_j8gejbu wrote

Is this a 30 Rock reference?


bakerton t1_j8i3953 wrote

No but now that you mention it, how important is tooth retention to you?


Lilian-Kaustupper t1_j8i4jha wrote

Pretty important…


bakerton t1_j8icuae wrote

I'm assuming it's because you want to finish your studies at the Royal Tampa Academy of Dramatic Tricks?


Lilian-Kaustupper t1_j8igueq wrote

I would have gone to my high school reunion but the boat I was educated on sank 🥲


wildgarlic1969 t1_j8fbj92 wrote

10”-12” of ice on the lake in Lamoille county I was on this morning. That’ was the depth of 3 holes I probed w my ski pole while XC skiing. That’s plenty of ice here but it certainly varies according to local weather, depth of water, currents etc. I def wouldn’t go out on lake Champlain right now


Loudergood t1_j8ft3qs wrote

Skis are also a plus for not falling through.


MontEcola t1_j8fnlfz wrote

I agree. And I have been hearing a version of that since I can remember. 1969 or so.


TaterTwats t1_j8eqc02 wrote

my guess is those two men didnt frequent r/vermont


tjtaterator t1_j8ev4hb wrote

Or perhaps just say kindly say, hey, if you go on the ice, please don’t drive on it, where an ermegency pull string flotation device, bring safety ice picks and don’t go alone.


VioletMcBitchin t1_j8f1ct8 wrote

I can see 3 fishermen out on the ice on memphramagog right now. People are crazy


Broomepower t1_j8fikah wrote

There's probably 10+ inches up there. It's fine.


VioletMcBitchin t1_j8ftjx3 wrote

I know they are fine, but there could be 6 ft of ice and I'd still be too scared to go out there!


VTPeWPeW247 t1_j8fdur7 wrote

Yes, meth is bad! Get it? Ice, meth! Oh, I crack myself up. Now back to your original program of redditors redditing. Peace!


Smeedge_Kilgannon t1_j8fqult wrote

I'm sure your tone absolutely helps when bringing your message forwards...Is this vermonts sub or a subreddit for karens?


zombienutz1 OP t1_j8fubf6 wrote

Nah Karen's done usually care about someone else's life, just their own.


Top-Collection-5036 t1_j8gd012 wrote

There were 1000+ people and multiple vehicles out on mallets bay this weekend for the pond hockey classic. It’s about common sense. Everywhere is different and conditions at one place can vary drastically from another place close by.


DifficultPen653 t1_j8hntoc wrote

Went yesterday at 7am on southern Champlain. We planned to stay till 3, but around 1130 the ice really began to groan and the shore looked sketchy. We noped the eff outta there. All of us millennials and gen z’rs are safe and sound. Plus we still came home with enough for a good perch fish fry.

Moral: Be aware of what the hell is going on around you. Not just on the ice but in life ;-)


silvioddante t1_j8hpl3n wrote

I thought it was gonna be a meth pun


somedudevt t1_j8htht7 wrote

There’s plenty of safe ice to fish


CaptainHoey t1_j8idddg wrote

There took a whole side by side. Idk how much those things weigh but I wouldn’t take one of those on ice no matter how thick it is.


zombienutz1 OP t1_j8ier9f wrote

And the fact that insurance doesn't typically cover vehicles over water unless your policy states that, then you're paying a huge premium.


CaptainHoey t1_j8j82mu wrote

If you’re alive to pay it


zombienutz1 OP t1_j8jno1q wrote

Right, well the premium's what you pay beforehand. Probably won't have to cover cost of rescue and cleanup if you die of course.


cloudysparrow811 t1_j8er48s wrote

I get SO scared for people when I see them out there! Especially with the fluctuating temps! I've never been out on real ice before, but it would have had to have been in the negatives for days on end to get me out there. I hope people stay safe!


Essarray t1_j8fdtu7 wrote

62, 71, and 88.

Kids these days...


Commercial_Case_7475 t1_j8efebq wrote

Don't worry, it'll weed out the idiots.


Corey307 t1_j8ek2w0 wrote

You’re being extremely cruel, all three of the men that died were old men and two of them were very old. They probably weren’t keeping up with the weather then did what they always did and that’s go ice fishing. it cost them their lives and I doubt their families would appreciate your opinion.


Commercial_Case_7475 t1_j8ekui9 wrote

I mean, I'm not sure what to tell you, but grown men should understand the risks of going out on a frozen lake. If they had dementia or something else, sure, that's another problem. I was taught to carefully check how thick the ice is before taking such a huge risk. Like I don't think you can really sympathize with someone going out on ice in 50° sunshine.


Corey307 t1_j8f5951 wrote

Yeah what they did wasn’t especially wise but making snide comments doesn’t help anyone.


Essarray t1_j8fh5ti wrote

It actually does. Obviously it won't help these guys, but by pointing out the stupidity of it you could easily help someone to avoid being the next guy. Our entire prison system is based on a similar principle.


Corey307 t1_j8g2tjq wrote

Again I disagree, we can comment on a poor decision without needing to be cruel to the people who made it. These men didn’t knock over a liquor store or rape somebody, they went ice fishing during fall weather.


Vtjeannieb t1_j8g4om3 wrote

Still unnecessarily unkind. People that age remember how it was 50, 60 years ago and use that as a gauge. You’ll understand someday, but please don’t be unkind in the meantime.


TheQueenCars t1_j8elfi1 wrote

What is with people being so cruel now a days? Plenty of people dont pay attention to social media and crap, many like to get outside and live- you know how most Vermonters have always been. It was a damn fishing derby, if the ice was THAT thin and dangerous the officials should of cancelled it.

Losing people is never a joking matter, no wonder Vermont has become such a mess lately if people have attitudes like that.


Commercial_Case_7475 t1_j8emg4m wrote

Tbh I didn't even read the article when I posted my first comment. The context of that is actually quite sad. My apologies, I was just referring to people going out on their own accord. Gotta be smart about it or don't take the risk.


CorrectFall6257 t1_j8lkw8y wrote

Exactly. I worked with Wayne (62 yr old victim) many years ago. He was an avid outdoorsman and good man who died doing exactly what he loved. He was a father, husband, brother to those who loved. A hard worker. Everyone is so fuckn perfect and never makes a mistake. Some get away with it, and some don't. I hope no one who is joking never loses someone because of a mistake. I agree with you. NOT a joking matter.


r_gine t1_j8essi2 wrote

Don’t tread on me


MrLongWalk t1_j8f6o1o wrote

Out of staters, go ahead.


Essarray t1_j8fimjx wrote

Police reports say all three lived in state.


bcodding t1_j8efxg1 wrote

and stop driving, and..


Corey307 t1_j8ejwys wrote

Three people died and we’re in the middle of a heat wave, it’s good advice. People have to drive, people do not have to go out on the ice.


bcodding t1_j8eqdt9 wrote

We should measure the ice by its thickness and strength rather than by a body count or reddit sentiment.