Submitted by casewood123 t3_11e3ug0 in vermont
MinkDingus t1_jaccnzh wrote
Reply to comment by djrstar in School choice bills aim to deny private schools public money by casewood123
This bill was designed around specifically protecting and not including the four traditional independent schools. It was endorsed by the school boards association, the principal's association, superintendent's association, and the national education association AKA the NEA the largest Union in the state. It's so rare to find an issue but all four of these groups unanimously agree on.
HappilyhiketheHump t1_jaceu7f wrote
Including “Traditional” independent schools is really trying to thread the needle.
Unless subsidies to ALL private schools go away, the lawsuit will again be filed for discrimination and the state will lose. The court ruling was clear. States don’t have to provide subsidies to private schools, but if they do, they can’t discriminate.
To allow the traditional 4 academies to exist in this scheme, they need to become public school entities. If they continue as private entities, they should not receive public funds.
Optimized_Orangutan t1_jacfwc8 wrote
One side is people arguing that their religion should control education, the other side arguing that the government should and I don't trust either of them to have the best interest of the student at heart. The Vermont Independent schools provide a vastly superior education, not tied to the edicts of a higher power with dubious motives for the same cost as sending the kids to some rural shit hole public school. (For far less when you factor in you will have to build that rural shithole public school first). As long as they are following the law, leave them alone. They are spending that money better than the public schools are for better results for Vermont children.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_jaci587 wrote
Well said thanks! I have a child in one of these independent schools and this would ruin her. She's not typical and has skipped quite a few grades and really can only get the advanced education she has at a small school. We had to pull her out of public school years ago and now that shes in high school with school choice we can send her to a place best suited to her learning style. This will be hurting hundreds of children that don't even attend religious schools all in the name of anti-religion and attempts to defy a Supreme Court order. Sore losers causing massive collateral damage in their quest.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_jacgj1s wrote
Sadly I think they have an out. They will argue that the districts could choose an independent or religious school as one of the three they will be allowed to send kids to. That way they can say they are not discriminating specifically.
Not to mention all the kids that would be harmed in my district from this there is a more insidious issue here and it's one of basic respect for the courts and our legal system. No matter what side you are on here the SCOTUS ruled on this case and the state is trying to circumvent that ruling with this legislation which to me seems wrong. Sorry but this reminds me of the election deniers in a way. Take the loss and move on.
Ok_Birthday749 t1_jacoooa wrote
It was and it wasn’t. My child attends SJA. That school will be a ghost of what it is now under the bill as proposed as it will force these schools to operate under the same regulations as public schools.
That means things like hiring PhD so and so to teach in his area of expertise because he’s the best person for the job will no longer be allowed because they’ll be required to have a degree is secondary education. So the fact that they may be 100 times more knowledge about the subject matter won’t matter if they can’t get a VT teaching licensure. I’m sorry but my daughter has by far the best teachers I’ve ever seen at this school. There are unintended consequences to these bills as written that need to be addressed. And this is just one example.
MinkDingus t1_jacrpkn wrote
No one needs an education degree to get a teaching license. Licensing in Vermont can be pursued the number of different ways and often requires some course work, but definitely doesn't require a specific degree.
HappilyhiketheHump t1_jad7uz9 wrote
I think the real point is that licensing doesn’t make you a good teacher. It’s just a hurdle put in place to protect the status quo of the education establishment.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_jactnil wrote
SJA is one of the best schools in New England not just VT. They get students from all over the world.
Ok_Birthday749 t1_jactrrc wrote
Yes but the majority of their students are poor kids from the NEK.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_jacubtb wrote
I live here I am aware and thankful for SJA. The even have a better facility than many colleges do.
Ok_Birthday749 t1_jacurhj wrote
Yes and it will be a travesty if they don’t make some changes to these bills as proposed. The underlying problems with our education system are not going to be solved any time soon and gutting the schools that provide the best education in the state for the most at risk students is not going to help.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_jacvv1t wrote
The entire idea of "not propping up" places like SJA and LI are insane as most of Kixeliz's rants are she even brought your kid into it!. Actually kinda thankful she blocked me. What's the alternative then? Let SJA and LI die and spend untold millions building new high schools in the area. Not gonna happen. Where will they build them will my kids now have to spend three hours or more on the bus everyday. It's already almost 2 hrs now. Blinded by hatred seems to be a common theme these days.
Ok_Birthday749 t1_jacx1fg wrote
Yeah I blocked that person because I have no interest in arguing with someone that has tunnel vision and an agenda outside of doing what is best for the children of this state. I grew up in the NEK as a severely disadvantaged kid. I pay out the ass to live where I do now so my kids have better opportunities than going to North Country where if you aren’t a redneck that loves Trump you are bullied into being suicidal. That’s the irony….SJA is the epitome of inclusion, social and emotional safety and superb education. All that persons arguments are about everything other than what is best for children.
ETA: Like you, I have a child who has thrived at one of these schools after having gone through hell for the first 7 years of public school here in the NEK. She spent her entire school career depressed and verging on being suicidal because she wasn’t like the other kids and they made sure she knew it. She has never been healthier or happier or more accomplished and she’s only a freshman. The problem isn’t what these schools are, it’s that the rest of our schools are so mediocre or poor in comparison.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_jacyq7h wrote
Kinda in the same boat broke ass's most of the time but we did save enough to buy a home and chose our location specifically because we at the time had an elementary and middle school with choice for high school. Then the new district closed the middle school and forced the kids to bus a few towns over to a decrepit school with a collapsing gym roof and a building that is literally sinking into the ground every day. I like smaller local controlled elementary and middle schools but favor a larger regional approach in unpopulated areas like where we live. For example we used to live in Craftsbury and while the high school is nice and was recently redone there are just very few opportunities to learn there. It's impossible to have the varied fields of possible study a larger school can provide in a place like that. I am not knocking it and it's a fine school if you plan to stay in VT and be a farmer or something but there are no advanced classes in much of anything stem related or outside the very basics. Just can't get a break it seems. As usual the most dangerous time to live in VT is while the leg. is in session.
Ok_Birthday749 t1_jacz2v7 wrote
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_jaczo32 wrote
> She spent her entire school career depressed and verging on being suicidal because she wasn’t like the other kids and they made sure she knew it. She has never been healthier or happier or more accomplished and she’s only a freshman.
That really hits home we are/were in the same exact situation. My daughter actually likes going to school now and hates being late. Odd for a teen right? She has only just started high school this year but my oh my is she absolutely excelling where she is now. Completely changed person for the better and fuck this noise I will fight for these small schools with everything I have.
Ok_Birthday749 t1_jaczrw7 wrote
Same!
Kixeliz t1_jacpyoj wrote
Requiring a teacher to have a degree in education doesn't seem all that far fetched to me. Doesn't matter how knowledgeable someone is if they don't know how to effectively pass that knowledge on to others, specifically children, in a meaningful way.
And SJA has been pulling shenanigans for years where it'll claim it's a private school so no one has any say over what it does with its money and then claim it's a public school so give it all the tax dollars please and thank you. The status quo is not working.
Ok_Birthday749 t1_jacqyyp wrote
Perhaps before making a judgement you should look at outcomes for students and compare those to even the top performing public school in the State. Then your argument about a teaching degree may have some merit. But the outcomes for students speak for themselves. Especially considering SJA and LI serve an enormous number of children from the consistently most economically depressed area of the state, the NEK. Are you from the NEK? Do you have any idea what the culture here is like or the lack of opportunities there will be for the poorest kids in the state if this were to be passed the way it is currently written?
No, you’re more concerned about virtue signaling that private school equals bad. Our public school education system is in shambles for a reason and you think it’s a good idea to force the four schools in question to start running on that model? Maybe actually have some idea what you’re debating before you make comment. I’m an atheist. Avowed socialist since the 90s. This isn’t a black and white issue like people are attempting to make it.
Kixeliz t1_jacruip wrote
It's always weird to me when people wag their finger about rushing to judgement and then freely make their own assumptions.
The public education system is in shambles, specifically because pro-business people have been actively working to undermine public education for decades, including propping up schools like SJA and LI. It's also weird how you say this isn't a black and white issue, yet you're only arguing for private schools here. And for the record, I don't give a shit what religion you may or may not hold, that part is absolutely a distraction. It's about capitalism, not who you pray to. "Avowed socialist," man people really say whatever on the internet, huh?
Edit: This is a great example of people's priorities shifting because they personally see a benefit. You stated you have a kid going to SJA, so now you're strongly defending a private school despite claiming to be an "avowed socialist." So either that was a lie, or your politics take a back seat if you think something is going your way.
Ok_Birthday749 t1_jacsjnf wrote
No I’m arguing the issue at hand. The topic of what to do about the shitty schools we have all over the place here in VT wasn’t the topic. There are plenty of things that could be done and should be done to make schools here better. We can never get to any sort of real change because we get hung up on issues like this one.
ETA: you really have no ability to use logic do you lol? This is about education dipshit. We live in a capitalist country. Everything is under the guise of capitalism.
Kixeliz t1_jacsog2 wrote
That is the issue at hand. Are we having a funding issue if schools are performing as expected? Don't try moving the goalposts.
Edit: Dude blocked me, such strong convictions. And name calling? Bet you set a great example for that kid lol
Krusch420 t1_jacry96 wrote
You may think your teacher with no teaching degree is a good teacher, but they don’t learn class room management skills or social emotional learning. Right now you can get an emergency licensure anyways, so I’m not sure why this is an issue.
Kixeliz t1_jacs7x0 wrote
So this hypothetical teacher with no teaching degree will have classroom management skills or social emotional learning? Just being knowledgeable about a topic doesn't make you the best possible teacher available, was my point.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_jacftr2 wrote
Ha maybe the assc did as they stand to get more cash potentially but my school district spoke against it clearly. A large amount of kids in our district attend independent schools as there are no high schools run by the district.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments