Submitted by RamaSchneider t3_123kdn5 in vermont
Comments
ilagitamus t1_jdv7jp1 wrote
Depends on the position. Paraeducators and 1:1 interventionists are typically better paid than their school employed counterparts. But higher qualified positions like clinicians and licensed mental health counselors certainly make less than they would working privately.
Galadrond t1_jdzb424 wrote
Clinicians and Counselors make between ~$33,000 and ~$60,000 in Vermont. Pay is uncompetitive and housing is either unaffordable or nonexistent.
partial_birth t1_jdv8yw4 wrote
When I was making their ads for one of the local newspapers, there were multiple ads every single week for various HC positions, and they always had exhaustive lists of qualification requirements, but never listed salaries. The only places that didn't list salaries/rates (and I'm sure this is still the case) were the companies that weren't competitive.
I was just on a job search between November and February, and I never once even considered applying for jobs that didn't list the salary. It isn't worth the time only to realize that they're offering below market rates.
No-Ebb6940 t1_jdviem9 wrote
They do now post salary ranges but you have to look on the Howard center page to see them!
satanaintwaitin t1_jdv4mnb wrote
Pay your fucking workers livable wages
pinestreetpirate t1_jdv736p wrote
How? Its not like the junkies that detox there are paying for it
friedmpa t1_jdva0eq wrote
State and federal funding
pinestreetpirate t1_jdvprjw wrote
So raise taxes or cut from existing programs?
cesare980 t1_jdvrplv wrote
Yea, let's start with the military.
RedRipeTomato t1_jdxj9rg wrote
I don't think VT has a military.
Otherwise-Lock7157 t1_jdxzuy7 wrote
That's not going to solve anything because it will never happen.
friedmpa t1_jdvr56w wrote
Good question. There are probably programs that have extra funding they don’t need on a state and federal level
vermontaltaccount t1_jdx5gyo wrote
I mean, that's true, but now we're at several layers more than "pay your fucking workers" which kind of implies corporate greed.
ZhugeTsuki t1_jdvajlx wrote
Anyone actually know a Howard center employee in this comment section besides me?
People are leaving right now because they are being forced to work/fill in other positions because of the staffing shortage. There is as I've seen mentioned elsewhere quite a large list of requirements to get positions there, and that's part of the issue as well.
But the biggest issue is that the employees are extremely overworked, exhausted, and still having to deal with constant mental health crisis. They do all sorts of team building/relaxation exercises but they've got about half the people they need for the minimum amount of positions to be filled, and that's causing a ton of burnout. All the way from the bottom to the top of the administration, there's just no one to hire going by their own stringent criteria and the ones they did hire are leaving (or switching departments) for easier positions.
I don't think "paying them more" would fix this issue as simply as some want to believe.
No-Ebb6940 t1_jdvhvq1 wrote
I know an HC employee. The burnout is real, and they have a real middle management issue. There are a lot of bad managers driving out people with typical bad manager behavior. For example, Howard Center policy allows for hybrid/remote work if and when possible, and a lot of positions actually would make sense for it. But managers take advantage of it but refuse to let their teams to. Or forcing people to have their time off requests for all three months of summer…by February. When you combine the frustrations of bad managers with the burn out of the work, and working nights and weekends, no one wants to stay, even in the positions that are well paid.
DrakeStryker_2001 t1_jdvxeza wrote
Fellow HC worker here. It's partly everything you're saying and more. I used to work on the crisis team, and I will tell you without a shred of doubt that both middle management HC leadership - with few exceptions - don't give a single shit about their ground-level workers. They forced their clinicians back to face-to-face assessments in the ER before vaccinations for the virus, and there is not enough space in those ER rooms to socially distance, putting their clinicians at medical risk. They enacted policies that continually made working conditions harder, and would not advocate for the members of the team, who were constantly asked by community members to do things above and beyond the responsibilities of those clinicians. And when the workers tried expressing concerns about how things were going, concerns were largely ignored and not addressed. When workers tried calling out the toxic leadership, individuals were prevented from being licensed or their work was twisted to look like they weren't doing enough.
And that doesn't even touch upon the absolute lack of specialized workflow and procedure training across numerous departments. Everyone gets one basic round of trainings, and then hope that they have fellow clinicians who care about their contributions enough to take them under their wing and show them the ropes. But even then, the agency continues to change policy on - at least - a monthly basis, adding more and more work onto workers' shoulders.
Howard Center has a toxic leadership culture, which is illustrated by their bad-faith negotiating tactics with HC workers' union. And unfortunately, because it's working out pretty well for those in leadership positions, there's not enough will for things to change at the agency. Those who could have become career community healthcare workers get burnt out by the treatment they receive and the lack of will to change things. "Well, that's just the way things are" is a refrain I've heard WAY too often. And - sadly - one of the reasons that I'm in the process of leaving. I wanted to stay at least ten years, but the conditions here are just anti-worker.
limetimerhymer t1_jdvcj5p wrote
Well if the employees are being asked to fill other positions while doing their original job, wouldn’t paying them more be the least the employer can do to compensate for additional work? It may not be a 100% solution, but if they can offer the team building/ relaxation practices like you said then they could at least pay their workers more if they can’t hire anyone else.
ZhugeTsuki t1_jdvdjp2 wrote
They regularly give out bonuses rewarding good work, but the problem, again, isn't just wages. Tripling someone's salary because they are doing the work of three people doesn't make doing the work of three people any more feasible - you just get compensated more, which means the department has less to offer to whoever is filling the vacancy you're covering, and then there's no money left to boost their burnt out work force.
Team building exercises don't cost a ton of money, just fyi. Things like group meditation or yoga aren't exactly in the same financial ballpark as increasing 100 employees salaries by even just 25%, nevermind being compensated for the work they're actually doing.
Look at UVM if you'd like a real life example. All of their long term, good staff, have left because the traveling nurses are getting paid 1.5x as much as they are to incentivise them to work in Vermont to try to fill their vacant positions. So you can pay more, but that doesn't linearly increase productivity or efficiency. The way UVM handled it is hurting its staff.
DamonKatze t1_jdve46c wrote
That can be a two-edged sword. Yes, the people that stay and cover other positions definitely deserve more compensation, but the danger is that the management will make the added responsibilities the norm for the poor employees that are stepping up. Bad Management can also use that to justify saving payroll by not filling positions quickly or even getting rid of some positions outright.
If the organization doesn't identify and fix the undelying issues from the start, it can be difficult to change them down the line, which will only increase turnover.
FloobLord t1_jdwo68p wrote
> wouldn’t paying them more be the least the employer can do to compensate for additional work?
It might be that they simply can't pay more. They can't raise prices like a business - if they have X funding from their funding sources, they just have to hope someone decides to get generous if they need more.
Ecstatic-Actuary9871 t1_jdvsnpr wrote
Better salaries would certainly help with retention, attracting applicants, filling positions, and reducing said burnout. It’s a core issue.
DrakeStryker_2001 t1_jdwawmt wrote
Or even just allowing clinicians to be able to earn more money. Obe clinician I knew submitted a request to do private practice work outside of Howard Center, and they didn't respond to the request AT ALL for months.
druunavt t1_jdw1vlc wrote
I appreciate your perspective. As a parent and guardian of a young adult in the system (different DA though, not Howard) how can we best advocate for employees’ needs? What would solve the lack of staffing?
friedmpa t1_jdxbyy2 wrote
If company pay people more, more people will work, more people will stay, etc. IMO it’s the biggest issue
[deleted] t1_jdy2sdl wrote
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R50cent t1_jdvacpm wrote
Pff. I applied there for a lower level position because I was looking to move to the area, and never got a call back or even so much as an email. They always seem to have jobs open, but whatever...
Maybe they should try... Contacting the people who apply. Burlington area companies in general seems to really suck at doing this.
limetimerhymer t1_jdvd8ru wrote
Same here. I applied for some admin level position. Did the phone interview where she offered me another position different from the one I applied for, but I would have to work a day on the weekend. I said I would let her know but I am still interested in the original position I applied for. I emailed her back a couple days later after not hearing anything with a follow up and she said the position was filled…but I could still do the other one lol. Seemed kinda shady
R50cent t1_jdvebfn wrote
They just need bodies desperately, and I get why, they're a company that handles kids with special needs and families... but it seems like the sort of thing you'd pay people well to do. I can get a job working in a warehouse somewhere in northern Vermont shlepping boxes or doing data entry for right around the same amount, and I guarantee it doesn't come with half the stresses a Howard center job would. They need to think about that, but I sincerely doubt they will... Again, Burlington companies really seem to be missing some things in regards to the job landscape around them and in other places, and I don't understand why.
CallingAllDemons t1_jdvran2 wrote
They can think about it all they want but if their budget comes from government appropriations then they can't do anything about it so long as funding stays level.
druunavt t1_jdw1n7z wrote
Parents and self advocates have been pushing for the state to increase wages for these employees. The agency doesn’t get to set them. It’s a Medicaid thing. It absolutely sucks; these should be professional level paid positions.
Trajikbpm t1_jdw8je0 wrote
Seems to be the general consensus for everywhere. Apply for a job somewhere thats desperate. Still have to jump thru hoops to get it then they wanna shove you in a position you didn't apply for for a still shit wage.
softcarcass t1_jdwg58l wrote
I also applied to one of their admin positions. Same thing, they trie to get me to do another position that had weekend hours.
E123334 t1_jdv1l3p wrote
No housing, low wages, young graduates leaving the state, lack of skilled trades, and yet anytime someone even mentions new development or flatlanders moving to the state, the crusty old Vermonters start crowing about “go back to where you came from”. We can’t have any change because it’s not the Vermont way. Lot of people just like to hear themselves complain.
thetoneranger t1_jdvfu09 wrote
NIMBYism in its most pure form. Time to change and adapt.
LobsterSuspicious836 t1_jdxvh00 wrote
If the out of staters stopped renting and buying our houses... current wages would be in line with the cost of living... QED.
E123334 t1_jdy4ovm wrote
We need out of staters to come rent and buy our houses, because we can’t keep our own youth. We need workers, we need more housing, a lot more, far more than is being taken up buy second homeowners and vacation rentals. The vacancy rate in Burlington has been under 3% since before Airbnb was a thing.
one-zero t1_jduzhn8 wrote
Vt as an entire state cannot operate without federal funding. Every public service grant is being gutted and the ones that still exist even as a non-profit now has management that’s getting salaries significantly higher than years past but without an increase in funding. Look at mental health/addiction at Bratt. All but gone. Not enough money to maintain the facilities or pay staff. Word on the street is that they couldn’t get an increase in federal funding but everyone at the top got raises and bonuses for years. Source: program director for veteran PTSD left and went back into food service and bartending for more money.
TheTowerBard t1_jdv4fdh wrote
People have been discussing the fact that everyone leaves Vermont for over 50 years and now it’s a major crisis because nobody in that 50 years decided to do anything about it. Good work team.
Galadrond t1_jdzbc99 wrote
It’s a crisis because Corporate landlords are buying up all the housing with their stolen PPP money, evicting tenants, and then doubling or tripling the rent. That’s assuming they don’t just turn it into short term rentals.
RamaSchneider OP t1_jduwhal wrote
Medical workers, drivers, educators, police, and much more ... all saying the same thing: staffing shortages. We need to be thinking about moving ahead and not protecting everything we had. There has been a massive change in our work force, yet we're acting like it's still 2018 in the work place.
What are the possibilities we can explore that will require fewer, not more, "workers"?
friedmpa t1_jduy3rw wrote
Paying them more money. Human services pays dirt and everyone can get double in a neiguboring state, why stay. Have a bachelors degree and have to tend to people that hate you for $18 an hour it’s a fruitless endeavor sometimes
pooticlesparkle t1_jdv44gq wrote
Vt has an older median age compared to most of the nation. the 'older' our state gets, the more social services it will need to care for the elderly population. We need more workers. We need more services. We need to be more humane to caregivers and pay them enough to survive in this state, or we will have a horribly underserved elderly/ sick pop. It's not great as it is, which the pandemic shone a crystal clear light on. So when you are frail and unable to care for yourself, what is the alternative? A robot? You need humans for these roles right now. Nobody wants to do it because it's been horrible for a while, and the wear and tare on your body and mind isn't currently worth it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_median_age
norinco-ak47 t1_jdvf4d0 wrote
And yet, the state of Vermont, short near 700 staff positions already is going to add another 100+ state jobs to be filled due to the unaffordable heat act and the child care/family leave bills. Odds are stacked heavily against any success of the heat act right out of the gate. The carbon tax will have to escalate to cover the credits required by the 2030 time line. (written into the bill). Can't make this stuff up.
you_give_me_coupon t1_jdx3l1a wrote
> staffing shortages.
Staffing shortages at the wages offered is how everyone should mentally translate that phrase every time you see it. Everything makes tons more sense that way.
Azr431 t1_jdvra1e wrote
It won't improve under capitalism
General_Skin_2125 t1_jdwr7hq wrote
How would it work under socialism, communism, or whatever you would envision?
Azr431 t1_jdwteb5 wrote
Way too much for one post, but social services would be considerably more extensive and comprehensive, and able to provide the mission they've outlined. Non-profits are not immune from capitalism's excesses and pitfalls, they don't operate in a vacuum.
General_Skin_2125 t1_jdww7qy wrote
Sure, but how? How would you get people to apply? Or would they not have a choice?
Azr431 t1_jdx2g4v wrote
It's more extensive than that. Replace capitalism with socialism.
Different wages would still exist for different jobs, and those wages are determined democratically by the workers. Wage inequality would still be present to some degree but the perverse and gross inequality we have today would no longer be present. Billionaires and most likely millionaires would not exist. CEO equivalents and senior leaders would still probably earn more than lower levels, but not at the obscene levels today. Jobs that require high levels of expertise, stress, or hard labor would probably be paid more. Workers come and go as they wish. Work is also not tied to healthcare/health insurance as insurance no longer exists. People would be much freer to change jobs as they see fit without insurance/benefits hanging over their heads. In an ironic twist, job migrations would probably be easier and more readily available than under capitalism.
EscapedAlcatraz t1_jdzkxqe wrote
Cuba, Venezuela, and Bolívia are all socialist countries. Last I checked they were miserable places to eke out an existence.
Azr431 t1_jdzzivt wrote
You've been fed "American greatness" capitalist agitprop your whole life, you may not even realize it. Socialist countries run by autocrats are poor examples, they're really no different than capitalist countries run the same. There are capitalist countries that have a lower PQL than Venezuela. Furthermore, imperialistic and extractive capitalism has decimated many of these countries and is largely responsible for creating an environment of struggle and failure - look no further than sub-Saharan Africa or central America.
Cuba is actually a very good example of what's possible under socialism. They have a higher literacy rate than America. They have lower infant mortality rates than America. Should we talk about homelessness in America? It exists in Cuba, but it's significantly less than America. They excel in other areas but these three examples are critical to quality of life. Speaking of quality of life, socialist countries generally have better PQL than capitalist ones. Cuba has done exceptionally well while having very few high-value natural resources where the majority of their GDP is commodities, and most notably, they've done well while having the largest superpower in the world right next door who's placed stupid draconian sanctions on them for over half a century.
memorytheatre t1_je3c7xi wrote
>Cuba is actually a very good example of what's possible under socialism.
You are insane.
Azr431 t1_je3fl4a wrote
That same exact video could be made in Portland Oregon or NYC. Or Chicago. Or Los Angeles. Or anywhere with extreme income inequality. It’s about the overall average, and I’m guessing you’re not in the lower quadrant.
After seeing your post history, it all makes sense. Every. Single. Time.
memorytheatre t1_je3x474 wrote
NewtoNewHampshire mod and BoSox9. Get out of the Vermont subs you Credit Card Socialist POS. Your last line is the same lame shit you always sign off with or with name checks out. French Revolution Bastille shit my ass. When? While you are up in Quebec skiing for $140 a day? You're nothing but a rich boy poser probably flush with Daddy's money playing social media guerrilla warrior. Pathetic. Go live in Cuba if you think it's such great example of socialism. See how you do there. You are so condescending to anyone but those you deem pure and worthy. You don't want what socialism is because you think you are above everyone and have all the answers. Narcissistic POS looking down on the brainwashed deplorables.
Azr431 t1_je4he9e wrote
Lol everything you think you know is wrong. Thanks for playing
General_Skin_2125 t1_jdxg2kn wrote
Damn, that sounds nice, but it's impossible. Why would billionaires or millionaires, or politicians or anyone in power choose to give up their power? lol
Azr431 t1_jdxt46b wrote
Oh the wealthy won’t voluntarily give it up! Lol
General_Skin_2125 t1_jdxxzqv wrote
What are you going to do about it?
Azr431 t1_jdycfuo wrote
Vote
General_Skin_2125 t1_je5u2rn wrote
Hahaha that's really worked recently, hasn't it?
Otherwise-Lock7157 t1_jdy04ww wrote
Post on reddit.
Herban_Myth t1_jdv3hx2 wrote
Increase productivity.
steelymouthtrout t1_jdvmn4k wrote
Do we all understand that you can't have a well-rounded community without workers?
And you can't have workers for these lower paid positions if there's no place for them to live.
So all the people that own property up in Vermont including airbnbs?
you should congratulate yourself because you are single-handedly responsible for the housing crisis that's occurring. And the social services that the entire state is losing. Maybe your second or third home will give you the services that you need and you can go up to Vermont for your July vacation. I hope nothing bad happens to you while you're up there. Don't call the cops don't call the fire department and don't call the EMTs because you've priced them out of their own town.
you_give_me_coupon t1_jdx3wso wrote
> Do we all understand that you can't have a well-rounded community without workers?
We do. The people calling the shots in the state do too. They just don't care.
a_toadstool t1_jdw74rn wrote
All mental health orgs are underpaid for what the jobs are.
Galadrond t1_jdzbpdq wrote
Significantly underpaid. Why live/work in VT when there’s no affordable housing and the pay is half of what neighboring states offer? The state economy is going to implode because workers can’t afford to live here.
Cobdain t1_jdvbxzm wrote
I forget the title, “behavioral interventionist” possibly? Anyways, I worked there for a while and met some truly fantastic people while being there. That being said I had the unfortunate luck of being teamed with this Eastern European case manager who was completely void of empathy. She didn’t give a sweet one for her clients or her staff. All she cared about was cranking out babies and how much maternity leave she could scare up. I left because of her, and I’m sure I’m not the only one. Allowing people that terrible to fly below the radar and ruin peoples days is one of Howard’s problem. Too few people for oversight and fee fee people to hire breeds distinction.
Realfeedmaster t1_jdvbw7i wrote
You can make more selling pictures of moldy food online than you could working at a job like that. No wonder there are shortages.
Teachers and social workers do not make enough because we don't care about those jobs as Americans.
TheTr7nity t1_jdwk77r wrote
They warned about this for a long time.
FloobLord t1_jdwnsej wrote
>the state’s largest social services agency
> 6 beds
That seems like something we should fix.
bismuth5 t1_jdysd8s wrote
HC should be cleaned out top to bottom. Used to work there and it is the quintessential big fish in a small pond — incredibly poorly managed and directly benefitting from the coverage friends in high places (a la ppl on the board, etc) give it.
Galadrond t1_jdzaud9 wrote
Bottom line is that Mental Health Workers can’t find affordable housing in the state of Vermont. The explosion in corporate landlords and short term rentals is crippling the state’s workforce.
[deleted] t1_jdx8dpz wrote
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JoseModelo t1_jdxgrzv wrote
Howard Center does not have a secure unit. Patients are there voluntarily and are not locked in.
[deleted] t1_jdxgy1r wrote
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at-room-temperature t1_jduykjb wrote
Correct me here, it’s been a minute, but isn’t the Howard Center known for offering uncompetitive, low wages for positions?