Comments
arlowner t1_jcjubyv wrote
The Vermont Library Association has been explaining to all of them, in various ways, over the last three months that colleges/students/everybody needs libraries and they are blindly believing they can more affordability offer library materials through contract services available online. No physical books for our students- they are too archaic! ( that’s an attempt at sarcasm btw). Imho this is not forward thinking though because contracts for library materials are very expensive and get more expensive as you grow and want more access to materials. Not to mention- if you don’t have library staff- who will help navigate this very clunky databases? It’s very shortsighted on the side of those in charge.
PsychologicalEar0 t1_jckhtvr wrote
i live in vt and i went to college in vt and i have never used a library even on campus for anything other than their printers so i believe this statement is wrong. rather than funding libraries, why cant we use online literature databases?
its not like you can check out your college textbooks and highschools give books to their students.
arlowner t1_jcklq6r wrote
What did you get your degree in?
PsychologicalEar0 t1_jckp4yf wrote
engineering
i believe there are digital libraries where all documents/books could be available to the public (and more than possible in person) for cheaper and easier public access, am i wrong?
Nutmegdog1959 t1_jckxsbj wrote
Engineering? Really?
Are all engineering publications FREE online? How about engineering software, also FREE?
You are incredibly naive about education to think that everything online is free and no licenses are required.
KITTYONFYRE t1_jclt086 wrote
none of my comp sci physical books were free, either
thank god for LibGen tho lol
PsychologicalEar0 t1_jclbw6j wrote
lmao i had to buy my books f9r class i said i didnt use the library once they dont s5ock engineering books
i didnt once say free i said a pay service
if u think kibraries have engineering siftware u r crazy and actusly engineering sweets r free for personal use and or inckuded in tuition
arlowner t1_jcl5hfm wrote
Yeah, you are wrong. I suggest you call a real librarian, maybe at the state or uvm, and ask them how much a contract is for a year for an average library database - examples jstore or Lexus nexus. In my knowledge they can range from 1,000 to 100000 annually. Then ask them how much is available for journal archives in the subscription contract. Because sometimes that costs more. Then ask them how many databases they have for a comprehensive digital collection.
A few years ago I heard a statistic- something like only 25% of the world’s information is available online. That’s a small world if your limiting yourself to just that. Oh and do you want to talk about lack of reliable internet services, especially here in Vermont? Libraries are great for their printers but behind the scenes they do more than you can even image. Go visit one sometime. Librarians love to show them off.
PsychologicalEar0 t1_jcld4mw wrote
i got cable from dsl this year so they r working on it
those numbers you gave me for a digital library r cheeper than the cost to maintain the states libraries
bonanzapineapple t1_jcmy6y1 wrote
Not everyone in VT has reliable internet access. You'd be surprised how much literature has not been digitized.
If it matters, I graduated from college in 2021 (tho not in VT)
Cobdain t1_jcmlh9p wrote
Power is out, I want to read a book… oh shit forgot all books are better suited to be online only now. 😄 I do understand what you are saying though. Issue is you are one person with one opinion, lots of people appreciate libraries! Also the books are already paid for, they aren’t going to make much IF any money selling them. It’s stupid, and dangerous to dispose of books.
PsychologicalEar0 t1_jcmsrof wrote
thats not even what i mean obviously if u have no libraries u will still have entertainment books. power goes out alot at my mountain house and i keep gameboys. im not saying books r bad what im saying is library infrustructure is expensive and rarely used. i havent been to a library in like 10 years.
vexing_witchqueen t1_jcmcmue wrote
I don’t know, I got a physics degree and I used the library constantly. Maybe engineering is a basic degree that you can get in exchange for some homework problems, but most majors involve research and a physical library is essential for that
PsychologicalEar0 t1_jcnf0zo wrote
lmao u r something
you are right, no one with a physics degree has ever graduated without using a physical library
PsychologicalEar0 t1_jcner54 wrote
lmao well arnt you pretentious.
i bet noone has ever gotten a physics degree without going into a library my bad
mountainofclay t1_jcmao7i wrote
I’d have to agree. Back in my New Jersey high school days all the cool kids wanted to go to Goddard. We know where that ended up.
Nutmegdog1959 t1_jcmfmvp wrote
In any given year there are about 30,000 college students attending classes in VT. 35,000 if you count CCV. But almost all CCV are in-state.
Out of the 30k about 10k are VT residents. That leaves 20,000 college students traveling to VT for college. If ONLY 1% of them stayed, that would be 200 new young people moving to VT annually.
And if 5% stayed, that would be an additional 1,000 college educated young people moving to VT every year.
That is the best opportunity VT has to grow. And what do we do? We charge the highest tuition, have the most expensive housing for students. Hit them with godawful fees and do almost everything possible to drive them out.
I've spoken with countless students, and after four years of being treated like an ATM on two feet, they've had enough. They happily admit they will come back to visit regularly, but they don't want to live here.
mountainofclay t1_jcmzpwu wrote
Yeah! give those kids a break! As they drive daddy’s beemer over to Stowe to ski and drive up rental prices for the poor locals.
Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcvbvac wrote
seriously. Drive around student housing at UVM and its BMWs with New Jersey plates. If any VT tax money is going to a school that is Functionally a state university of NJ and MA, VT should take those kid's parents for all they're worth.
hippiepotluck t1_jcjwtk9 wrote
Oh look. More Vermont for non-Vermonters. :(
Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcvb7ch wrote
That is the future of the state. "Vermont" is gone, it's a resort for the wealthy now.
[deleted] t1_jclwjz1 wrote
[deleted]
lilaprilshowers t1_jcqv0wq wrote
It was already unused. What do you want? More abandoned decaying buildings in Bennington? You can bet the Airbnb owners are furious about this.
hippiepotluck t1_jcqw0xo wrote
I know. And it’s probably the best possible thing that could happen. I’m just saddened and a little salty that so much of Vermont is a tourist attraction catering to folks who don’t live here while those who do can’t afford even a crappy apartment, nevermind a home.
Filmerd t1_jcyyn59 wrote
Bennington doesn't have much going for it although it has a lot of potential given its location. Cottage industry only goes so far. You need a diversified economy for things to thrive.
Investment coming in will provide employment opportunities for local residents. You can bash it for catering to out of Towners if you want, but I'm not sure what this sub would consider to be a good alternative to help the local economy considering there are so many examples of small towns in VT being supported by out of state tourism.
What about all the ski areas that attract lots of out of Towners that keep folks in small towns employed during the winter months? Are you going to bash those people visiting and spending tourism dollars because they don't have in-state residency? Having a tourism draw has been a strong economic force in helping support local economies, especially in Vermont. I'm not sure there's a better alternative. You need investment for things to improve.
Filmerd t1_jckqyrv wrote
Ironic comment considering the state is so heavily reliant on tourism.
smokeythemechanic t1_jcl62h8 wrote
Relying on tourism and despising people that move in then frantically try to change VT to be like wherever they are from, are not mutually exclusive.
hippiepotluck t1_jclxv6u wrote
There’s nothing ironic about my comment.
JodaUSA t1_jcpqso2 wrote
We don't want to be. We need SOMETHING to keep our economy turning, and sadly, tourism was the easiest option for investors to get behind. Hopefully we can pull ourselves out of neolib investor hell and spearhead our own path with a real fucking economy.
cpujockey t1_jck4zzj wrote
A Vermont for Vermonters is just as racist as Bajor for Bajorans.
landodk t1_jckbdgj wrote
Services for residents now racist
cpujockey t1_jckbqvo wrote
I don't think you see how problematic it is to not provide services to climate refugees, or out of state folk. Need the out-of-state money so desperately, we must do everything we can to get more tourism dollars!
landodk t1_jckcb6i wrote
I have no issues with helping other people, but making life harder on the people they represent in favor of people that have money is not a great government
random_vermonter t1_jclg9d9 wrote
Not my fault these people lived in a state prone to the worst of climate change and now they’re forced to move. Tough luck.
hippiepotluck t1_jclwvvo wrote
I am not racist. When I say Vermonter, I am referring to people who live here as opposed to part-timers, weekenders, and Air B and B owners. Some of my favorite Vermonters are brand new Americans!
Bernthewalldown t1_jck35qa wrote
“Why are all the young leaving” is said with the same breath as “let’s destroy the college system”. The deterioration of Vermont for Vermonters continues.
Klashus t1_jcllnlc wrote
They want everyone to leave. Best way to turn it into vacation land.
Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcvbeay wrote
Young people are leaving blc the pay here is a joke and a condo in williston now costs $400k. They'd be stupid to stay, VT's future is pretty bleak.
KITTYONFYRE t1_jclth4r wrote
young people are leaving AFTER college
graduated uvm in 2021. I know 1 (one) couple who is still here, and they're moving in the next few months
colleges leaving sucks but it's not why young people leave (or at least, not a major, top 5 reason they leave)
jarvisk2 t1_jclwryz wrote
i would disagree. happy that you were able to afford UVM, but once i graduated hs in VT i had to move out of state to afford college.
KITTYONFYRE t1_jcn6gu6 wrote
uvm was my cheapest school lol that's why I went there. 24k in debt total, paid 7k/year up front. definitely not nothing! but not particularly unaffordable, and there's plenty of places more affordable in-state that you could have chosen to go to. I am glad you found somewhere that works for you, but don't pretend that's a choice you were forced into. hell, college fucking sucks and I wish I didn't go at all! maybe one of our many trade schools would've been better!
the real reason people leave is because housing fucking sucks here. it's a problem everywhere, but it's particularly bad here.
jarvisk2 t1_jcnajy4 wrote
it is absolutely a choice i was forced into. i had no help with college and no one to willing to co-sign a loan. vermont colleges were too expensive for me and my sisters. i had to move to a southern state, wait a year for residency, and get a college degree there. i was PAID a couple thousand dollars to get my degree with my 4.0 GPA instead of going into debt. not everyone can afford $7,000~ a year. yes, i agree housing is awful here, but vermont colleges have way more expensive in-state tuition in comparison to other states. please don't belittle my experience.
KITTYONFYRE t1_jcneovb wrote
> please don't belittle my experience.
I never belittled anyone - sorry if my words came across that way, it was not my intent
> not everyone can afford $7,000~ a year.
I mean, if you spent a year at home working (rather than in the south) and worked during the summers, you easily could have afforded 7k/year, same as me... it's not cheap, yeah, but it's within reach for anyone who doesn't have dependants and can live at home (or other cheap housing) for a year.
moreover, uvm isn't the cheapest school in the state, anyway. kind of irrelevant how much it costs. "I can't go to school in Massachusetts because Boston University is too expensive!" there are other options in the state for less
this is not to say you made the wrong decision or anything like that! but if someone wants to go to school in-state, it's easily achievable for almost everyone (again, besides those with dependents and who cannot rely on their parents for housing while in school).
meanwhile, buying property is completely out of reach unless you make 80k a year and can live at home/very cheap housing for 2-4 years to save up for a house. one is a far larger issue for young people in general.
jarvisk2 t1_jcnh7pc wrote
you're clearly set in your opinion, but like i said -- for those without any parental support college is unaffordable in this state.
KITTYONFYRE t1_jcnhiy7 wrote
maybe uvm is, there's plenty of other places to go to school though...
jarvisk2 t1_jcns776 wrote
listen, i attended ccv for a year i know what it costs.
KITTYONFYRE t1_jcopk6k wrote
damn this person knows what 2 colleges in the state cost per year, wrap it up, we’re done here.
tossawayintheend t1_jcozili wrote
Isn't it free for people with household income under $75k?
jarvisk2 t1_jcqtz4u wrote
what somebody's parents make for money shouldn't have anything to do with how much college costs. i guess i'm baffled at all the help everybody seems to be receiving. your parents can make a million dollars a year and still not give you single penny for college. your parents do not have to provide a roof or food the moment you turn 18. i get that a lot of people are in better situations, but jeez the blindness. an 18 yr old needing to house & feed themselves while working as many hours as they can at a minimum wage hs diploma job can't afford a timely college degree in vermont. PERIOD.
joeydokes t1_jcknba4 wrote
Post-secondary education is feeling The squeeze everywhere. Without bringing in higher paying out of state students no VT State college can survive. This fact becomes more acute knowing the smartest and best students just want to GTF out of Vermont when they graduate high school.
One of the reasons why castleton does well while NVU and VTC suffer
memorytheatre t1_jcksexi wrote
Post-secondary education that is worth the cost in affordable locations with highly respected universities is flourishing. Small, expensive, mediocre schools in unappealing locales is not.
joeydokes t1_jcktjix wrote
> worth the cost in affordable locations with highly respected universities is flourishing
well, that assplains it!
casewood123 t1_jcld5tu wrote
When I was in high school, I had a friend who is the security guard for the overnights and weekends at SVC. We would go out there and party all night long. We were convinced it was haunted from some of the creepy sounds we heard from that big empty building at night.
wut_the_phuck t1_jck4ono wrote
My wife and I were married here in 2016 when it was still SVC. Such a gorgeous building & property.
Would prefer it stayed a school but I’m glad they are doing something with it at this point.
Nutmegdog1959 t1_jcj417j wrote
Another missed opportunity to continue post-secondary education in VT.
The VT State Colleges should have taken over this property and combined it with the lame CCV. VSC could have offered 2 and 4 year degrees in addition to non-degree training programs. VT needs post secondary education that is AFFORDABLE.
That makes 4 or 5 VT colleges that have closed in the last few years. Marlboro College, College of St Josephs, Green Mountain College, Southern Vt College, VT College of Fine Arts is now virtual only, no on campus classes, so it might as well be closed.
The VSC or whatever it's being called now has announced it's closing it's library until someone explained to them that colleges usually have libraries.
VT used to be a destination for college students. Unfortunately, the VSC and UVM have received so little support from the VT Legislature they are both some of the most expensive community colleges, state colleges and universities in the country.
These campuses could have been used for learning institutions, business incubators for entrepreneurship, and affordable housing for communities or seniors.
Goddam shame how VT could manage to screw up something so simple.