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GrubSprings t1_jcvhzla wrote

So the CNN article links to the venerable "Wallethub.com" as its source. But when you go to Wallethub Vermont is ranked as #34 for best places to retire. Curiously, Wallethub deems Vermont #7 in quality of life and # 6 in healthcare but #48 in affordability. Maybe, just maybe things are unaffordable because many people actually *do* want to live here. Even in retirement!

In conclusion, these lists are garbage.

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VermontArmyBrat t1_jcvp1t7 wrote

Clickbait. Wallethub is like buzzfeed.

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[deleted] t1_jcxueyo wrote

>Clickbait. Wallethub is like buzzfeed.

So should we start calling it Walletfeed or Buzzhub?

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kellogsmalone t1_jcxjums wrote

Yes they are garbage but Vermont taxes social security income when NH and MA don't. That's one of the biggest reasons my parents didn't come up. That and cost of living is high; 17% above national average.

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cohray2212 t1_jcyiuci wrote

Don't we also have one of the highest life expectancies?

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Rare_Message_7204 t1_jcvplht wrote

Are you really surprised? Anyone who spends a week in VT could figure this out

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InformalCarpenter t1_jcvq6c0 wrote

VT is higher than MA? ... how?

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justreadthearticle t1_jcw7ckx wrote

Affordability is only one factor that they looked at. VT is generally more affordable than MA. They also looked at quality of life and healthcare. Healthcare is definitely better in MA and depending on the metrics they use quality of life may be as well.

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escapefromburlington t1_jczr9ci wrote

Healthcare is atrocious in Vermont unfortunately. You’re forced to go out of state if you have anything but the simplest and most common ailment.

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Glad-Palpitation292 t1_jd2fa8v wrote

My friend had to take his kid to Albany, NY to get an eye exam and some glasses in less than three months' time. So, I'd say we are going out of state for the simplest and most common things, too.

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Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcy5xvn wrote

I bet when wages are factored in MA is more affordable. Obviously no wages if you're retired but VT is MA costs with MS wages.

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friedchicken_2020 t1_jcvtz7n wrote

Because of all the social programs that VT has.

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justreadthearticle t1_jcw5vyy wrote

MA has more expansive social programs than VT, and CA has even more. Read the article, affordability is only one thing that they're looking at.

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AllyEmmie t1_jcvugto wrote

Irrelevant.

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friedchicken_2020 t1_jcvunw4 wrote

Wow...astute comment

Any substance to this or are you just a one word wonder?

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Successful_Order_638 t1_jcvwgjh wrote

u/AllyEmmie is likely referring to the fact that the "social programs" you complain about are largely, if not entirely, block funded by federal money, not VT tax money.

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AllyEmmie t1_jcvvhk4 wrote

Nope :) Strawman bullshit doesn’t deserve discussion.

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friedchicken_2020 t1_jcvwdjt wrote

It's not "strawman bullshit" if it's true. The more social programs you have the higher your taxes are going to be. It's basic economics. I'm not saying this because I oppose social programs I'm saying this because it's reality.

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yertspoon t1_jcw63o2 wrote

Is the amount of taxes the reason it’s more expensive to live in Vermont, or is it more the cost of living?

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Willie_the_Wombat t1_jcx01hj wrote

Same thing, have you paid your property tax lately?

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yertspoon t1_jcyi6ac wrote

i mean, I see how they’re related. However, I’m really just asking because the article is pretty clear that they’re not using taxes or social programs as any of the metrics, making that other guys entire point moot.

Like an article showing taxes across states would be interesting, but those weren’t the metrics in the article so IDK why that guy is bringing up social programs. Unless i’m mistaken about something?

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mobydog t1_jcvwynw wrote

As a Pennsylvanian I can verify that's not true. We have the second highest number of retirees after Florida, we have very low taxes for retirees, and tons of programs at the county and state level.

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VWSpeedRacer t1_jcwp1qa wrote

You also have a lot more people per square mile to share the cost of infrastructure. However, the big picture is far more complex than either my or your statements, and the average citizen doesn't want to put the effort into understanding it so they just look for a single data point that draws their desired conclusion.

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justreadthearticle t1_jcw6zdv wrote

MA and CA have more social programs than VT.

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inthepines3000 t1_jczbjj5 wrote

Yes. And those states have MANY more high earners paying taxes and actually some decent sized companies you may have heard of. Vermont's largest private employer is a dying remnant of IBM with less than 1000 workers. Vermont has become a rich persons playground along with a large number of borderline destitute and desperate people. With fewer and fewer middle-class in-between.

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justreadthearticle t1_jczdt07 wrote

Yeah, MA and CA definitely have more high earners and more companies. The point is that saying that more social programs = higher taxes isn't necessarily true. It ignores factors like the size of the tax base, where state income is coming from, and the outcomes of those social programs. Many social programs like free family planning or a housing first model of treating homelessness end saving the government way more money than they cost.

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Odd-Philosopher5926 t1_jcvtrhq wrote

I work with two dudes, one 72 and the other 80. Both working full time out of necessity, one guys pension collapsed and the other lost a fortune in his 401k he says. Save your money people. Save your money.

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Legitimate_Proof t1_jcxuur0 wrote

>Save your money people

But not in a pension or 401k since it didn't work for those two? It's tricky in our society without a safety net.

For younger people I'm not sure what to invest in. I think for them, the stock market and general economic stuff is fairly likely to collapse before they retire. So, when I was younger, I took money out of a IRA to buy a multifamily house to live in/invest. As you can imagine, that has worked well, but I don't think buying at today's prices would.

So like many things what worked for older people isn't necessarily going to work for younger ones. I'd suggest investing in things people need like housing, food, energy.

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cohray2212 t1_jcyj8bq wrote

I have some great retirement advice for anyone interested.

Don't listen to a random redditor's anecdotal advice he inferred from a sample size of 2 people he barely knows who may have mentioned something offhand and were likely just venting.

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SmoothSlavperator t1_jcy5y1c wrote

401K is still a good deal. You're getting free money from your employer because they match. If they don't go find another employer.

Make sure you have a good advisor and remember everything is on a boom and bust cycle. When you're in your early 20's max out whatever you're allowed to put in and put it in aggressive funds. As you get older, you pivot toward conservative funds.

What gets people is they kind of set their 401 up and forget about it and if retirement comes during a bust cycle they get screwed because they didn't shift their funds ahead of time to something that won't take a shit.

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ElDub73 t1_jcwyoh5 wrote

How does that compare to the list of states where your rights are least likely to be taken away by fundamentalist Christian nationalists?

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papercranium t1_jcxllek wrote

Yeah, sometimes I longingly look at the price of real estate in my hometown in Ohio.

Then I remember the political signs my mom's neighbors have in front of their homes, and I save up a little more to hopefully move her out here someday too.

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mdeer1st t1_jcxsaw4 wrote

How does it compare to the states where your rights are least likely to be taken away by progressive activist politicians?

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ElDub73 t1_jcxwwp7 wrote

giggle

I’m sorry that your constitutional rights to buy a 30 mag or infect others with covid were trampled on.

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mdeer1st t1_jcymmu0 wrote

snicker

I'm sorry that you have a misguided feeling that you're so far above the common resident as to dictate someone else's way of life.

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ElDub73 t1_jcyow4q wrote

If by dictate you mean establish civilized norms with science based public policy then sure.

Our constitution(s) empower our government to do certain things for us.

If you want to go back to the 1700s, please turn off your internet, electricity, use only muzzleloaders, eschew all antibiotics and move somewhere where your actions don’t impact anyone else’s.

Then sure do whatever you want.

We need a little less freedom and a little more liberty

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mdeer1st t1_jcyt7ap wrote

I don’t believe I ever said, establish civilized norms with science based public policy. I said mandate another citizens way of life just because you don’t agree with it. But that’s very lofty of you.

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dnstommy t1_jcvbom8 wrote

Yeah anyone who retires here is insane.

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VermontArmyBrat t1_jcvox8e wrote

I was born here. Currently working here. Plan to retire here in about a year.

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dnstommy t1_jcvp8ds wrote

Best of luck to you. I moved from Florida pre pandemic. My tax for living here is $28k a year. I think people get used to the high cost.

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[deleted] t1_jcw6ucx wrote

[deleted]

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dnstommy t1_jcw8o16 wrote

Income tax (top vt bracket) and high property tax (2.1 vs .9). I have a pretty high income.

I could include gas and power (.09 FPL vs .18 GMP).

Home owners and car insurance is lower in VT.

VT is beautiful. My wife is from here and wanted to move back to raise our kids. But the cost is felt every day. And it’s not like the roads are better, or the daycare is cheaper. It’s just the population is really low (probably a good thing) and the costs are fixed. Less people to pay all the bills.

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Twombls t1_jcwaw3a wrote

Uhh do you own a multi million dollar property or something? Thats like. Not something most people in vt are paying

If you are actually paying that. You are very wealthy. And imo should probably be paying even more than that.

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dnstommy t1_jcwbmr8 wrote

No. Just a normal house. 1k a month prop taxes plus a lot of income tax. Seems like this is normal. Higher in Burlington. I can’t imagine the really expensive houses that may 20+k a year property taxes. In Florida I paid 300 a month property tax. Homesteading in Florida reduces the taxable value of your house by up to 50k. In VT it’s just work .1%.

But this goes to the argument that investment properties should pay significant higher property taxes if almost all the town revenue comes from property.

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[deleted] t1_jcwl9lg wrote

Dude $12k a year at 2.1% property tax rate is at least a $570k house. Conservatively. Ignoring your SALT deductions and whatnot. Just straightforward arithmetic there from your two comments. And that’s assessed value, which is often 30% less than the market value of a property. Your property is probably worth over $700k in actuality.

That’s not a mansion, but it’s not an average house either. That’s a very nice house. You’re doing very well for yourself. Don’t play the pauper, it’s gross. You’re in the top 10%.

Also, Florida is a shithole. The rule of law doesn’t exist there anymore. I’d unironically rather move to Mexico. It’s cheaper and much nicer. Don’t come at me about how you got a house with the same square footage for $300k in Florida. It’s Florida. The land should be worthless. The houses are all builder grade disposable garbage. Just look at all the insurance shenanigans going on there. You should thank whatever god you believe in every day that you got out before the bubble pops and Florida property values fall lower than Detroit.

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dnstommy t1_jcwnl0q wrote

Certainly I am in the upper percentages, but the average house in chittenden county is 570 right now. There are way more expensive houses all over this place.

I’m not playing pauper. The whole thread is about how expensive it is to retire here. And I am just explaining why it’s right. This place is really expensive. As a guy who makes good money, no way I stay and watch my retirement get ripped to shreds.

2037, my house is paid for, my last kid graduates high school and I retire. Then I’m going back to sunny Florida with the rest of the retirees.

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frenchylamour t1_jcwp6wv wrote

Ugh, Florida. I sympathize with your experience in VT (I left last year) but man unless Florida changes direction, you’re moving back to a horrible place. A hate state.

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dnstommy t1_jcwq0b5 wrote

It certainly has taken a turn post pandemic. I went back a few weeks ago and the traffic was insane. But the political shit was hard to find. Seems to have subsided. But let’s see if 2024 brings it all back.

I lived there for 40 years so I know where to go to get away from the crazies. But yeah, the pandemic did Florida no favors.

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ElDub73 t1_jcwyvpc wrote

At least we know how much civil rights are worth to you.

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inthepines3000 t1_jczcqbk wrote

Wait until you see what they teach at Edmunds and BHS. You will moving out of Burlington when your kid hits 6th grade.

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willapointe t1_jd05pwg wrote

Not sure why your getting flac. I’m in the same boat. Retired a couple of years ago and paying a new car to the state each year. The way I see it it’s a privilege to live in Vermont and the feeble make us pay. I’ve tried looking elsewhere but there’s no place like Vermont! It gets better every year.

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dnstommy t1_jd0ahe2 wrote

Vermont is great. The spring and summer are amazing. I just need to keep my feet in another state for 183 cold days and be able to claim residency there.

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dnstommy t1_jcwohnc wrote

Florida is great. Completely off topic, but great.

And if you think the houses they build in Vermont now, in 24 days aren’t the same stuff they build in Florida… they built an entire 20 house neighborhood a few miles from me in 3 months. For sale, 900k. Welcome to Vermont. Cha Ching.

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inthepines3000 t1_jczchca wrote

You do not have a clue what you are talking about. You sound like a raving cult member. Florida sucks in a lot of ways but JFC.

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Simple-Acanthaceae-4 t1_jcvu3sv wrote

Hey 😜

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dnstommy t1_jcvuqsd wrote

❤️ it’s wonderful here. The schools are great. It’s just that my retirement will be eaten alive by the COL here.

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Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcvc7uq wrote

No, they have an unlimited bank account courtesy of mom and dad.

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jsled t1_jcvkhl5 wrote

Sorry, in what world are people retiring while their parents are still alive?

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GrubSprings t1_jcvoz41 wrote

I think they are referring to inherited wealth, courtesy of mom and dad (who are dead).

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gcubed680 t1_jcvr1d0 wrote

I’m a transplant of a few years ago and i have no idea how older people manage here. They do, but finding doctors and getting appointments for things is difficult enough when i only have to go once a year, couldn’t imagine how it is to deal with actual older health problems

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[deleted] t1_jcvu32y wrote

Older generations were able to build wealth in a way that was denied to us. I actually pay rent (in Massachusetts) that's higher than a mortgage in most places but I don't have a car and my job isn't in most places.

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kellogsmalone t1_jcxjxwc wrote

Pretty much all rents are higher than mortgages because rent is a mortgage plus additional taxes plus a little profit to account for repairs. My mortgage is $2100 and I rent it for $2,400.

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Twombls t1_jcwdfgz wrote

As someone who has had two grandparents grow old in this state. And now is having parents grow old in this state. Its a lot of driving to Dartmouth, boston and nyc.

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VetMedicUSA t1_jcw0ols wrote

2016 article in Forbes about how Vermont is quickly becoming a state where only the wealthy can afford to live in.

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Twombls t1_jcwcqsm wrote

"Tax happy vermont"

"Bernie sanders home"

Written in 2016

Hmmm this article may have some biases

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[deleted] t1_jcxv159 wrote

>Hmmm this article may have some biases

I mean it's Forbes

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Rare_Message_7204 t1_jcxsb9a wrote

It's True. Why do you think it stays so beautiful? It's a vacationers state.

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ballofsnowyoperas t1_jcvsut2 wrote

The answer is capital. Responsible saving for retirement is really important.

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gcubed680 t1_jcvvlxg wrote

I’m not even talking about money. Access to medical care

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Historical-Run-1511 t1_jcwaf5x wrote

I am not that old and not retired but have some old-people style health issues. It's really not so bad. Once you have a referral to a specialist the wait isn't so bad especially if it's more of a big-deal health thing. The docs are especially responsive via messaging as well. I'm in Burlington which might make it a bit easier.

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Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcvc5ac wrote

LOL. Is that why we're turning into New Jersey so quickly?

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MacduffFifesNo1Thane t1_jcvruei wrote

No, we can't be. New Jersey is literally Hell.

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Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcvxg7n wrote

Well, if half of NJ Moves here and brings their politics with them, then it makes sense that VT might start to resemble NJ.

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[deleted] t1_jcxdqlc wrote

What’s their politics?

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Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcy3pn5 wrote

They made some policy choices that made NJ one of the costliest states to live in. Now VT is one of the most expensive states to live in. Maybe there's a connection.

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Alcoholikaust t1_jcwhi5p wrote

Easy not all of us are terrible. South Jersey is great besides the fact the Aqua Teen Hunger Force lives next door and a rancher with no property goes for $560,000.

I moved from VT to NJ (ended up here after retiring from USAF)

It’s crazy expensive tho. Sad that VT is almost as bad for folks not making 6 figures.

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Carp_ t1_jcwbdhk wrote

These kinds of rankings are crap. If their assumptions about what is important were accidentally true, and their statistics were more than lazy slop, their conclusions would still only apply to about three people, none of them you.

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Nobes1010 t1_jcxxkd6 wrote

Probably because everyone from NY and NJ comes up here to retire.

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mr-lexicality t1_jcyddli wrote

Y’all be charging too much for that liquid gold maple syrup

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Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcylc4a wrote

Down voting the Deliverance-level writing ability, not the contention that maple syrup is overpriced.

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frenchylamour t1_jcwp029 wrote

The COL was basically why I left. I realized that, as a first year teacher, I couldn’t afford to rent a place of my own. I’m an older teacher—career transition—and at 52, the whole “live with housemates” is less attractive than when I was in my 20s.

Great place to vacation though.

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Justagirlfromvt t1_jcxum8x wrote

Although I can agree that the COL is high in VT, I suspect most people who complain the loudest live in Chittenden County, which is far different from the rest of VT. The bottom line is that it costs more to live in more desirable places, period. I moved to the Lakes Region in NH and my rent/utilities/groceries are higher here than anywhere I lived in VT, including Burlington. But them's the breaks, these days. Everything is more expensive everywhere, and at least I live in a decent place. I may never retire, but I love what I do, so I'm okay with that, too. If you can't wait to retire because you don't enjoy working and want to pay less and live in a shit hole like FL, those are your priorities. Don't complain, just go away and leave us alone up here.

Edit: The same goes for access to healthcare, etc. It's not a metropolitan area; there aren't ANY amenities everywhere. We like it this way.

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Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jcy68vy wrote

If it costs more to live in a place and wages don't reflect the higher cost, you end up with a gated community for rich people who either work from home or spend their parents money or both. That is what VT is turning into and it's gross.

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Justagirlfromvt t1_jd059ye wrote

I think that's true of many places. Everything is more expensive and wages are slow to catch up. We've been having this conversation for forty years (or more, I'm sure) in Vermont and not much has changed - for better OR for worse.

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Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jd3gpjr wrote

That doesn't excuse it in VT. In Vermont now, wages and costs are so far apart that the only people who can afford to live here are either working from home or independently wealthy. VT is running a sociological experiment to see what happens if you completely eliminate the workforce/working class in a state.

1

Justagirlfromvt t1_jd5w075 wrote

That may be true as of the last six years since I've lived there (in Chittenden County), but I've been able to live there when I was VERY poor because of "socialized" health care and food programs including but not limited to CSAs for lower income members and SNAP. My mother bought her first home after the divorce using the farmers home program (not sure if that's the actual name or if it still exists). Vermont is very expensive, but it also allows for programs and government that actually helps people succeed. Not everywhere is like that. It's a good place, and I disagree that the trend is toward a "gated community," although I understand the frustration. When I lived in Burlington (as a poor person with advantages), my struggle was to educate less advantaged folks about the things Vermont had to offer for them that still supported the local economy. It's just a different mindset. It's about priorities.

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Justagirlfromvt t1_jcxvbq5 wrote

Also, I run a nonprofit for seniors, so I'm not unsympathetic. It just takes a certain kind of person to live in this part of the country, in general. Ya gotta love it.

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Zestyclose_Alfalfa13 t1_jcvgsd4 wrote

Buying a place in Florida in a few years...

−20

Shep_Book t1_jcw07tu wrote

Meanwhile I’ve watched friends in Florida have their housing costs go up 70-80% in just the last few years.

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thisoneisnotasbad t1_jcvnf16 wrote

I did the same,bought it right before rates went crazy high last year. I won’t retire for another 10 or 15 years but bought a place about 15 minutes from the gulf coast. I’ll spend 6 months and a day there and 6 months minus a day at my place in VT. Florida is much more giving on the tax of retirement and social security. I figure I own the VT house outright and as real estate is usually a good investment long term. This way I’ll be able to leave each of the three kids a house when I go as either a place to live or so they can sell it and do what they want with the money.

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VTPeWPeW247 t1_jcvph5h wrote

Must be nice.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_jcw9rjq wrote

“Must be nice” dude we all have the same 24 hours in a day. Pitter patter.

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VTPeWPeW247 t1_jcwk7ca wrote

Spoken like someone who has had everything handed to them and can’t understand why the “poors” are always complaining. Fuck the fuck off. You and your pitter patter.

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thisoneisnotasbad t1_jcxvmjb wrote

"poors"... I grew up on public assistance, without hot water or a bedroom. The 5 lbs blocks of cheese people joke about, I grew up eating those. I had an older brother so never had anything new and everything I owned was a hand me down. At one point me and my 4 siblings shared the living room while my parents had the bedroom of a 1 bedroom apartment.

Being poor sucks. My siblings and I spent our youth in the gutter and now we are making sure our children don't have to live like that.

I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination but I'm comfortable and I've been working since I was 15 years old to get there.

Sorry your shit is not working out but don't blame me for that.

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VTPeWPeW247 t1_jcxyewz wrote

That’s a sad story. I’m glad you were able to take advantage of all the opportunities this country affords to white people. Keep on trucking, you’re somebody.

−1

thisoneisnotasbad t1_jcy0k7w wrote

What a weird pivot. Are you just trolling ?

It is VT. There is a 94% I'm white. If you live here there is a 94% chance you are all well. Higher actually because you are on Reddit.

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VTPeWPeW247 t1_jcy1kh7 wrote

Does it really matter what color I am? According to you, anyone who doesn’t make it in this country is lazy. Yes, that is what your comment implied. I simply reminded you that not everyone had it as easy as you. Believe it or not, many people would have traded your government cheese life for their own situation. You had it good as a child, you had a roof. Go out and find some empathy.

−1

thisoneisnotasbad t1_jcy2fu4 wrote

It doesn't matter to me what color you are. You brought up skin color, not me.

Does it matter what color my skin is?

Your reply also makes it pretty clear you are trolling.

Have a great day.

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VTPeWPeW247 t1_jcy38p8 wrote

Keep looking for that empathy. Usually people who have had a tough time in life develop a good sense of it, in your case I guess it just made you bitter.

−1

Outrageous-Outside61 t1_jd2ja4r wrote

HA. Handed to me. I grew up in serious poverty, dropped out of school in 9th grade because I couldn’t work full time while in school. Was able to bust my ass and put myself through an associates degree program at VTC. There hasn’t been a single fucking thing in life handed to me that I didn’t bust my ass off to get.

The lazy complain, us “poors” bust our ass off to make sure our kids don’t live the life we did.

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VTPeWPeW247 t1_jd2jy5p wrote

Cool story man. Seems like everyone has the same one.

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thisoneisnotasbad t1_jcxhys4 wrote

It’s awesome. Thanks.

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VTPeWPeW247 t1_jcxo7g7 wrote

I’m sure that yearly $100 to NAACP makes you feel better about yourself, but don’t forget how you got those houses.

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