kraysys t1_it2cz9r wrote on October 20, 2022 at 1:08 PM

Reply to comment by vermontaltaccount in Why I'm voting yes on Prop 2 & 5 by ButtonFactoryJoe

> "Due to the scientific consensus that life does not begin at conception, this no longer becomes a debate about infringing upon the rights of others, including the unborn fetus; it becomes a body autonomy issue which only impacts women"

Source on your "scientific consensus"? Everything I've seen in biology 101 indicates that conception produces a distinct life -- the question is rather whether we ought to give that life moral equivalency to the mother and thus legal protection, and at what stage in its development.

airhogg t1_it56pmh wrote on October 21, 2022 at 12:40 AM

Estimates run from 50 to 80 percent, and even some implanted embryos spontaneously abort. The woman might never know she was pregnant.

Assuming that fertilization and implantation all go perfectly, scientists can reasonably disagree about when personhood begins, says Gilbert. An embryologist might say gastrulation, which is when an embryo can no longer divide to form identical twins. A neuroscientist might say when one can measure brainwaves.

https://www.wired.com/2015/10/science-cant-say-babys-life-begins/

kraysys t1_it59tu7 wrote on October 21, 2022 at 1:02 AM

Define “abort” as you use it — that’s just simple word obfuscation. A miscarriage (and its medical equivalents) are not the same as an abortion procedure.

Yes, I’ve said multiple times that the question of personhood is a different and much more relevant one. I’ve been specifically arguing about whether it’s a “life” here.