Submitted by BallLikeLucky t3_y0kiuq in vermont
I’m in the market for a new Subaru. (I know…stereotype much). They are trying to sell me on Subaru’s “all weather tires” and that I won’t need to buy snow tires for winter here in VT. Is this real or just fake Subaru hype?
I always have studded tires for the winter. I have a Subaru too. If you can’t afford studded tires (I can’t I make sure I save up for them) definitely get winter tires. I’ve lived here my whole life and even though I know how to drive in the snow, my mind is more at ease knowing that I have proper tires. Shitty road conditions will happen no matter how much they try to keep up with road maintenance
Knowing how to drive in snow starts with winter tires. If you don’t have them in a real snowstorm then it doesn’t matter if you “know how to drive in snow”.
Well that’s what I meant. It doesn’t matter if you know how to drive in the snow or not… like I said, there are always days with shitty conditions no matter what. What I was trying to say is that even if you’ve driven in the snow your whole life, winter tires are very important. I still get super anxious in snowy conditions.
Yut yut. Agreed!
If you're driving somewhere in snow that makes you think you'll need awd, then you definitely need snow tires. AWD/4WD helps you go, but it's the tires that help you stop. And stopping is more important than going, all things considered
Well said
A) Subaru doesn’t make their own tires, so there’s no such thing as a “Subaru tire”
B) you need snow tires even with a Subaru
If you live in town and never travel beyond the main roads in winter you’ll be fine with all weather tires as long as you stay home on snowy or icy days.
If you actually want to go places in winter then get snow tires.
Even in town, snow tires are helpful. I did plenty of slipping on city streets in my old Forester before I decided to invest the extra $.
Yeah, been there, done that.
I couldn't make it up the slight incline outside the Winooski parking garage once when driving my son's car that he still had summer tires on, it just couldn't get enough traction to make it up the incline to Route 15, it was just light snow with a very light ice on the road. I ended up letting it slide back down to the bottom of the incline and parked it in the garage again and took the bus home.
Hm. I’ve always used all season and never stayed home.
When my now wife and I were dating we came from CT to visit Burlington in the winter. Drove up and got surprised by some snow, just a couple of inches max. I was in a Toyota Yaris w snow tires. 89N was a bit of a mess and there were cars off the highway and one I’ll never forget was a Volvo wagon nearly vertically situated up a large rock. We never had a problem. In my experience snow tires on FWD > all wheel drive w all seasons.
This. AWD is awesome, but it comes second to actually having any grip to begin with.
Awd helps you get uphill.
Snow tires help you stop going downhill.
My point was more of “AWD doesn’t matter if all 4 wheels are spinning”.
FWD is actually not bad in snow in general if you turn off the traction control.
Also turn off traction control during mud season! I learned this in the spring. It was my first time living on an especially tough road. Lol
For cornering and stopping? Definitely. The going is not generally the concern though.
Absolutely winter tires in VT no matter what you’re driving
All-weather tires are significantly worse than dedicated snows, even with four-wheel drive. Whether that works for you depends on your lifestyle.
Vermont-based dealership?
Right?!? What kind of dealership around here does not promote snow tires?
802 Honda told me that all seasons on a Honda Pilot would be sufficient. I told them snows or no deal, and I walked.
Walked on what? Them not giving you $1200-1600 of tires for nothing?
Twin City Subaru did not promote snow tires. They t straight told me the all weathers would be fine 🙄
all weathers have been fine for me on my subaru.
I feel safer with studs. My road can get pretty icy and I already have a spare set of rims that came with my last subbie so it's not a huge hassle to have the 2.
If i lived someplace a bit more rural I would get snows. But I drive 8 miles from Colchester to Burlington to work each way and its just not that bad. If I did have to get snows I would get a set of rims. I am so over paying someone to change my tires back and forth each season.
Might be because they don’t have stock - I recently bought tires and about all that was available were “summer” performance tires
Highly recommend getting a good pair of snow tires. I have a set of Nokians that I bought in 2018 and are still in solid shape.
Subaru doesn't make tires.
all wheel/4 wheel drive does not equal all wheel/4 wheel stop. snow tires are crucial if you drive anywhere past your mailbox
Fake hype. Good tires make the difference, not Subaru's AWD. Give me FWD with winter tires over AWD with all-weather, all day.
True story. Awd is nice but it’s not the end all answer. The tires make the final decision.
Winter tires are absolutely necessary, get a all-season set for Spring/Summer/Fall and some quality, winter specific tires on steel wheels if you can afford it. Blizzaks or Nokians or a decent brand for sure.
There’s all season tire, all weather tires and then snow tires. All weather are better than all season but you need real snow tires.
I’m in New Hampshire. Most Subaru owners I know (including myself))” use the Falken Wildpeak or the Michelin CrossClimate 2. Both are severe winter rated and are highly reviewed.
2015 Subaru Forester. Michelin CrossClimate 2 All Season. Very different tread pattern versus conventional tires. Better MPG in dry or inclement weather and work just fine in snow. And a smoother ride! (I don't sell tires or work for Michelin.)
Wild Peaks are an all terrain tire and Cross Climates are an “all weather” tire. Both are fine in the snow, but they are not dedicated snow tires, which have the proper compound that stays soft when it gets frigid.
blizzaks for my Jeep are worth every penny.
Cool story, bro.
I only say that because people get confused about the three peak mountain rating and the mud and snow rating and think that means they are the same as snow tires and not the case.
I’d be fine with cross climates in the middle of the country, just not Maine/VT/NH winters.
For sure. There’s definitely a difference, but most people in the northeast have the advantage of living in areas where roads are plowed and are rarely faced with driving in deep snow.
Sure, if you have the money to buy another set of wheels and tires or to have tour tires changed out and stored twice a year, sure, go for it.
But just like people who buy 4x4 vehicles as their daily drivers, but rarely go off-road, a set of expensive off-road tires isn’t necessary if you’re mostly limited to dirt roads and mild off-road conditions on an occasional basis and aren’t seeking more extreme off-road conditions.
A set of three-peak mountain rated tires will do just fine for most people who do most of their driving on well-maintained roads and drive properly for the conditions.
Sure there are people who live in more rural areas where the roads aren’t maintained as much or purposely seek out tougher conditions, who would greatly benefit from dedicated snow tires, but most people are just fine with a three-peak mountain rated tire like the WildPeak or CrossClimate 2.
If you think you need winter tires, you probably do need them. I have driven year round with all weather tires in BTV without issue and my Subaru Legacy '07 performed flawlessly. And I am an essential worker and I have successfully negotiated thru a foot of snow and snow drifts. But that's me.
Winter tires have a softer compound than summer tires, they are 'stickier' by design. Some folks insist on studded tires, but don't fully understand that studded tires are only good for 0-10 mph, beyond that they are no better than regular tires and in fact slightly less effective due to road contact loss.
If you're buying a new (new to you or showroom new?) Subaru, best bet is buy a set of Subaru rims off Craigslist or FB Marketplace for $100 and find some decent used winter rated tires for $100-200. Swap out the tires and rims Thanksgiving and Easter when you have your oil changed. You'll have your winter tires on the cheap and extend the life of your all-seasons. That's how I do it, works for me.
French neighbors from up north here. Buy winter tire.
Fake subaru hype. Awd doesn't really do much to change the traction between the tire and the road...
Your Subaru will not perform any better than any other vehicle without true snows…I own Subarus and never can afford the snows so I white knuckle or stay home in the winter. Honest.
When I was young, reckless, and broke, I drove on all season tires. I was super cautious and still needed to get pulled out of the roadside ditches a few times. If you can afford it, I highly recommend snow tires. Especially on a shiny new car you probably don't want to get all dented up your first season.
Not all "all season/all weather" tires are created equal. Most of them are designed just to handle cold temps and rain but not actually snow. An all season like a Michelin CrossClimate works great around here if you have AWD and you don't need to go out in the snow all the time or you live on a road that has good snow removal from the town. Almost every all season though aside from those, in my experience, may work fine for a season or two but once you wear em down to around half their life they lose any usefulness they had in the snow.
Ultimately I tell everyone the same thing. Your tires are the ONLY part of the car that touches the ground. It doesn't matter if you have two wheel, four wheel, eight wheel, etc... If the tires can't find grip it doesn't matter how many wheels are being driven. Also, stopping! Snow tires help SO MUCH in being able to STOP in the snow. AWD helps you get moving but it does nothing to help you stop. People think AWD makes them invisible until they careen off the road or into something because they can't stop in time. In the interest of safety, snow tires are always a good investment.
No one ever says “I wish I had worse tires.” It’s easy to take for granted not going off the road, or getting stuck But the first time you feel like you don’t have control of your car, or digging out of deep snow you’ll kick yourself in the ass for not biting the bullet.
Honestly man. Winter tires are super expensive at least for my vehicle. I think it’s worth it to get some and reduce the likelihood of something bad happening.
All-wheel drive can easily turn into all-wheel slip without proper tires. I had fun in my last Forester during the first snow before I changed over to snow tires. The wrong kind of fun… luckily no person or vehicles were injured, so I guess it was still a little bit the right kind of fun.
Drove 120 miles in blizzard conditions to Sugarbush last season on 2019 Forrester stock tires. Though treacherous at times, it handled very well.
Get the winter tires.
This
I'm curious what is being offered as the standard tire. The only "standard" tires I've been offered are all-season tires. I always get snow tires (as noted in the other comments), and also get quieter tires for not winter.
I'm on my second Subie, and have had regular commutes over the hills on Rtes 4, 7, and 103. My tire change appointment is next week.
Maybe if you're only driving in the urban areas of Champlain or Upper Valleys you could get away without snows, maybe Brattleboro or just Bennington.
Yes, but if you want to ever leave Bennington...
How small of roads do you drive in the winter?
How urgent are your trips in the winter?
I assumes you're being offered winter rated all seasons. I used some michelin crossclimate 2s that fall into that category that I felt like were pretty good. Not as good compared to my snow times I ran previously but good enough for 90 percent of the driving I did.
Definitely was riding in my friend's subaru when he spun out going down a hill in the back roads. He had all seasons.
I've exclusively driven subies with various brands of 'all year tires' over the past 10 years or so in New England. Snow tires would probably work even better, but I feel like you can get away with all year tires on a subie.
We got those with our new Subaru. Second snowstorm we got stuck at the bottom of our rather steep driveway before the plow guy got there. A few hours later we had studded snow tires installed. No problems for the rest of the winter.
You can get away with all seasons…until you can’t.
Personally, “get away with” and safe driving aren’t really things that should go together, but I recognize that for a lot of people mitigating risk is challenging when they don’t see the need.
But it’s like insurance. You don’t get it because you need it all the time. You get it for those times when you really need it.
Only if winter is fake.
It sounds like they're trying to sell you on the 'all wheel drive' not the 'all weather tires' as what will keep you from needing snow tires. You can pretty much only buy a car with 'all seasons' on it so they don't really need to sell those to you.
If they're trying to say 'with AWD you can save money by not buying/swapping snow tires each winter', well, that's really debatable. As many have said, the Subaru AWD will drive OK in bad conditions as long as the all seasons have tread... but dedicated winter tires will still be an upgrade in a variety of ways. Maybe you can get away with not putting snows on a Subaru when you basically HAVE to put them on a 2WD sedan... maybe you can't... but I would not take the salespeople at face value on this.
I know I personally drove a Subaru for years with only all seasons. It was better than a Honda Accord with all seasons, because I wouldn't get stuck on hills, but nowhere near as good as a Subaru with Winters which wouldn't sideslip... and stopped in time.
I got the new-ish 4 season tires last year, and they work for me on my Subaru. I prefer not having to change out my tires, or creating that much waste. They’ll last about three years before I need to replace them.
I have a Subaru and I run it with all season tires. The only problems I’ve run into is when they get bald, which would cause problems with snow tires too. And the problem with them is that I hydroplane a lot.
If your going to own the car longer than the lifespan of two sets of tires, then why not 1/2 that mileage be on summer tires and the other half on winter tires? It’s buying the same amount of tires in the end and you get way better traction and safety in snow on snow tires. The trade-off is either having to buy another set of rims for the snow tires (and tire pressure sensors if driving with the warning light on for 6 months bothers you), or having them mounted/dismounted twice a year…and storage in the off season.
I’d even say a front wheel drive car with good studded snow tires is better handling in snow than an all-wheel drive with “all seasons”….in most situations, especially stopping.
Depends on the tires. There are some very good all season tires that can handle winter driving. I live in Buffalo, NY and my Subie has all weather with no issues. You have to know your geography and what you will encounter.
Which all weather tire do you have on your Subie?
I had Generals which I don't think they make anymore. I just purchased Cooper Endeavor Plus'. We'll see how they do this winter.
Born and raised in New England, never owned a set of snow tires. Mostly because I never wanted to deal with the hassle. You have to store snow tires all summer, then you have to swap tires every season. Not saying they are not worth it, but not something I ever wanted to deal with. That being said, not all tires are created equal and a good set of AT tires usually are not cheap, but usually well worth it.
I can understand boring the tires can be a hassle, especially if you live in an apartment where having a place to store tires may be problematic, but swapping the tires honestly can't be seen as a hassle.
You should be rotating your tires periodically anyway so it's not much different to swap to snow tires and back to summer tires as it is to rotate your tires periodically.
The love for snow tires is nearly universal, and if I tried them, I may well join the chorus. Howevs… I have never in life changed my tires for the winter. I drive all seasons in all seasons, and this is because broke af is my default mode. I used to do this with a front wheel drive Camry, and while I never wrecked, there were a number of dicey escapades. Have had a AWD Impreza since 2019 and it drives like a dream in the winter weather. Granted, I make sure to slow the eff down and avoid any jerky braking or acceleration . There may be some waay back roads that I would avoid, but overall I have no problem running all seasons all winter
I've never had winter tires on my trucks, but we always put them on my wife's FWD car. All-terrains have been fine. Blizzaks are generally awesome. Have had good luck with cheapo Champiros too.
It all depends on if they are all weather or all season. All seasons are gonna get you stranded in a ditch. All weathers such as the Nokian WRG-4 is a snow rated tire and it does a pretty darn good job. The all weathers are great when you commute on mostly paved roads that are plowed and salted often, and occasionally you go on some back roads where a snow tire is usually needed. An all weather gives you less rolling resistance than a dedicated winter tire, better gas mileage, but they’ll wear out in the summer faster than a standard all season. If you live out in the country or drive a lot of country or mountain roads, spring for a dedicated winter tire, like the Blizzak, the Nordman, or Hakkapelita. I’ve never run studs, but some people swear by them. Don’t run all seasons around here though. If for nothing else, it’s an unnecessary danger to put a tow truck driver in, when the situation could have been avoided. Even if you can drive fine with the all seasons, STOPPING in snow is much much better with winter or all weather tires. Do some research, go to dedicated tire shops, don’t buy stuff from the dealer unless it’s damn close to free.
Snow tires will help you make more traction in the snow than AWD. AWD with snow tires will get you pretty far if you know how to drive properly.
All weather tires are like a multi tool, they’ll never do the job of either tire as well. A summer tire will always be better for the summer, and a winter tire will ALWAYS be better for the winter. If you’re a highway or otherwise heavily plowed roads driver you can probably get away with a/s’a but otherwise I’d spring for some good winter ones
Amen dude...
I tried delivering mail in rural VT with my AWD Subaru with all weathers...don’t expect to go up any hills in those
Depends what sort of road you life on and how urgently you need to leave the house. If you have to travel/commute regardless of weather, get snow tires. All-seasons (or no-seasons, as your fifth-generation neighbor would call them) have limitations in wet grip at low temperatures. In VT winter temps, they will perform far worse than designated winters.
Winter tires are better.
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Never had issue running high quality all seasons on my Subaru. Depending on where you drive they'll be totally fine. Just make sure you get something actually rated to go on snow, e.g. Continental DWS06s
Same with my truck. I drive with Goodyear Wranglers year around.
fake Subaru hype
I drove with all seasons for years, on the back roads* and in town and they were fine. My mom gifted me studded snows a couple of years ago and while they are fantastic, that doesn't mean my driving habits have changed!
Go slow, slower than you think.
Don't touch your brakes.
Go slow, really, go freakin' slow.
*I live on a "back road"
I ran all seasons on my Subarus here for years and just switched to studded snows last year, and I wish I didn't wait so long because I had some close calls on the all seasons
I'm in Irasburg and have never had a problem with the all-seasons on my Crosstrek. I live on a class 4 road up the side of mountain and spend a lot of time at Jay Peak.
I own two Subies, and both cars have their own dedicated snow tires.
There is NO such thing as an all season tire. No tire can perform in all seasons adequately through varying conditions. For it to work well in one season, it has to sacrifice performance in another.
Get a set of dedicated snows. Sure, an all season can get you going, but stopping? That's probably the most important thing to consider! All wheel drive doesn't grant you all wheel stopping.
Blizzaks would be my recommendation. If you're in the market for a new car, you should be protecting your investment, as well as other drivers. Consider the savings from not having to get extracted off the side of the road or even a collision? They'll pay for themselves!
I agree with everyone saying “absolutely winter tires”. Even if you could make it through the winter without them, don’t. You’ll be so much safer with them.
Depends on your road conditions. If u live in mud country, the studded winter help. - a former Subaru all tie owner.
I have a wrx that I’ve tuned up myself I’ve always run studded tires in the winter, I’ve had tire guys, mechanics, car enthusiasts everyone tell me that’s silly, I’m totally fine with paying the extra few dollars To have some more grit on an icy day, snow shouldn’t scare anyone around here, it’s ice and rain that kill people.
If you have to ask you need snow tires.
I would take a front wheel drive car on snow tires over a AWD with all season tires; they make a big difference.
There are a few “all weather” tires on the market now that are 3-Peak rated. You want at least that for Vermont winter.
But imo, the best thing is to run a set of dedicated snow tires in winter.
https://www.lesschwab.com/article/all-weather-vs-all-season-tires.html
I have lived in Vermont my whole life and currently have a Subaru. You still need winter tires.
Snow tires are worth their weight in Gold-Pressed-Latinum!, especially in the snowier regions.
It’s not just the tread pattern, but the rubber compound, “all season” tire rubber loses flexibility below 40F, winter tires are designed to remain flexible below 40F…
Of course, that also means they wear much more rapidly at temperatures above 40F, and the more flexible sidewalk makes them feel “squishier” in corners.
The Yokohama Geolandar on the Wilderness Outback are actually pretty awesome and “all-season”. https://www.moderntiredealer.com/articles/32149-yokohama-is-oe-on-2022-subaru-outback-wilderness
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Time for a new mechanic eh?
Ironically they closed recently
I’m with Clavier, above. Get good snows. Your life and the lives of your passengers are worth it. When ice coats the road, however, don’t go out until the road crew has treated road surfaces and you’ve had a chance to sand or put kitty litter on the walkways and driveway.
I have a Crosstrek and change over to studded snow tires for winter. All-weather tires are an oxymoron, a compromise.
Every new car in this area comes with all seasons. Cheaper for the car manufacturer. Then the salesman in turn tells you all seasons are fine in winter. NOT. I have run snow tires in winter for decades, ever since I could afford them. A world of difference.
AWD doesn't help you stop and a 2nd pair of tires/wheels is super cheap insurance. Sometimes stopping 5-6" sooner is the difference between no accident and a totaled car.
Tires provide traction. The more you have the better off you are. Winter tires provide superior traction in cold and snowy conditions.
I’d suggest getting a set of winter tires along with a set of winter rims. Leave them mounted and tire changeover becomes inexpensive and something you can potentially do yourself. Both sets last more years and over time it is minimal extra expense to be safer year round when driving.
Winter Tires are more important than AWD.
All Season is just another way of saying '"not winter"
I would strongly recommend winter tires in Vermont.
Lease or buy? If leasing then definitely buy separate snows. You will save tire wear on the leased tires so you don’t have to buy new tires on the return, plus better winter performance obviously. If you’re buying it all depends on how much you think you’ll need to drive in actual storms. 90% of the time a good all season is enough. When they are fresh they can handle most situations, but it won’t be as pleasant. I wouldn’t have said that until I had to drive a rental Santa Fe with fresh all seasons (literally 200 miles on the rental when we picked it up) through a snow storm that dropped 18” on the transcanada highway from revelstoke to golden BC. Not nearly as comfortable as driving with snows, but just had to drive a little more defensively. Zero problems…it’s going to come down to the driver when it comes to the safety of driving in snow. Bottom line is, if you’re driving to the mountain after snowstorms then get some fucking snow tires! Just so much better performance (and therefore safer) if you anticipate driving through snow on the regular.
Hmmm...I know nothing about the Subaru all weather tires, but I do drive a Subaru and I never put snow tires on it. But 99% of my driving is in/around Colchester, Burlington, Essex, South Burlington. My son has started snowboarding so this year I am considering "snowflake" all weather tires just to get up to Bolton (although I had no problems last year with my Cooper all-seasons). I've been perfectly fine with all-seasons for the last 10+ years. But I dont ever "HAVE" to drive, and can work from home if I need to.
Imho they're better named 'no weather' tires
I have a Crosstrek Sport, I run All-terain tires in the summer, and even though they are 3 peak rated for snow I run Studless Hakkapelliitta R3s the rubber compounds are softer than all-weather tires allowing you to grip ice, snow, and cold pavement better.
I had all seasons on my forester year round and never had any issues. Just be sure to rotate them. For my wrx I had a set of summers and a set of winters on different rims.
Buy good tires. All weather’s are for all weather but snow in VT 😂
I never have anywhere to store my extra tires, so I always use heavy duty all weather tires for the year. Haven't had an issue. Of course, I never drive on any unkept roads in the winter and tend to stay off the roads in severe snow storms.
I've used all season tires (on 4x4 vehicles) year round for the past 10 years, never a problem. And I live out in the boonies a little bit. But most VTers will tell you you must have snow tires.
Awd will help ya get moving with shit tires for sure. But it won’t help you stop. Nor will it help you from sliding sideways off the road.
Snow tires are a relatively cheap insurance policy for your new car.
Indont buy them from a dealer. I order them online and have them shipped direct to my door. I can usually save some serious cash that way.
Subaru's all season tires are no better than other manufacturers all season tires in my experience. If you expect to drive in heavy snow or slush and have a steep driveway like I do then getting dedicated snows even on a FWD car will be leaps and bounds better than an all season.
All weather in a 4wd are fine, but snow is still better. I have a ram and while it does fine with all weather tires, once I put snows in it's a beast in the snow. The def help with stopping and turning, which IMO are the most important. Get a set of winter tires on a 2nd set of cheap rims and just swap them every year.
That’s bunk. You need winter tires. Even with AWD, all season tires are not suitable in Vermont winters.
Source: I own a Subaru.
I have Goodyear Assurance all weather tires on my Subaru Crosstrek, and I feel very confident in the worst of Minnesota and Vermont winter weather. The only down side is that they increase the road noise on dry pavement, which is already a problem in a Crosstrek.
I don't know anything about Subaru's all weather tires, but my inclination is to buy tires from a local tire store, not a multinational car manufacturer.
Depends how good you are at driving in the snow and how much you will actually do it. If you ski or have a decent length commute you should get snow tires. I do know some folks who run subaru's in vermont with All seasons and do just fine though.
There are some all season tires that could do ok but only those that have a snowflake emblem (3pms - 3 peak mtn symbol)
These are such annoying responses ugh lol.
Just get the expensive all weather
Hype.
i drive in all season tires and have no issues in the winter. I’m sure winter tires would make me feel even more confident, but I feel safe with my current tires
That being said, my car is super low clearance so I have never tried taking it anywhere too remote, but have made many trips to Stowe sugarbush, jay peak.
I despise the Subaru drivers that like to drive around with a long line of cars behind them. I wish it was a rare occurrence but it isn't.
Hype. You need studded snows, with the ice-storms we have. Trust me on this.
Clavier_VT t1_irsa1rb wrote
I have a Subaru and would strongly recommend winter tires for Vermont.