bobsizzle t1_iuv05q0 wrote on November 3, 2022 at 5:23 AM

Reply to comment by somedudevt in What's up with the open enrollment healthcare plans? by buttergams

There is no such thing as free healthcare. Free to you doesn't mean free. You'll pay for it one way or another. Higher taxes or cuts elsewhere. They need to first control the cost of healthcare and stop letting companies charge one price for drugs here and a much cheaper price elsewhere. They can lower the cost to start with. And then decide on what system to use. Either way it's not free. And wait times are crazy, in many countries with the government paid 'free' healthcare. Many have to end up going private and paying out of pocket to see a doctor unless they want to wait 6 months. So not all roses and sunshine. But they can do better and limit the profits of the healthcare system. Negotiating costs in more circumstances would be a small start.

somedudevt t1_iuv2pus wrote on November 3, 2022 at 5:56 AM

We are already all paying for the shitty system that provides profits at every level. It should be 100% government. You get cost in-line by stopping the pay per service shit. I’m in favor of totally socialized medicine, that would be Dr’s being government employees or contractors, medical facilities being government owned etc.

But in my eyes free is not costing more than today. If we could go socialized for what we pay today that would be a win. And really we could do it for much less. Between myself and my employer my healthcare costs $12,000 a year. On top of that I have a 3k deductible. So my baseline is 15000 a year in cost for healthcare. Everyone bitches “well taxes will go up” but they fail to realize that currently wages are just held down in equal proportion.

Now so far this year I’ve not been to the Dr, in 2021 I went to the Dr a total of 0 times, in 2020 1 time in 2019 3 times. I see a nurse when I go and have never met the dr who is my PCP.

Most studies say that a 6% flat income tax split between payroll tax and the worker would be enough to fund full socialized medicine. That would be a 70% reduction from what is currently being paid for my health insurance. If you ask me that’s free…

Sure that means that Elon and Bill are getting a higher bill for their insurance, but I assume that my corporate gig scenerio is pretty common cost wise today, and if you do the math, we are looking at 250k annual income as the spot where 6% would become more than the 15k in current cost. So this would be a tax cut/expense cut for 90% of households.

you_give_me_coupon t1_iuz2p2h wrote on November 4, 2022 at 1:48 AM

> But in my eyes free is not costing more than today. If we could go socialized for what we pay today that would be a win. And really we could do it for much less. Between myself and my employer my healthcare costs $12,000 a year. On top of that I have a 3k deductible. So my baseline is 15000 a year in cost for healthcare. Everyone bitches “well taxes will go up” but they fail to realize that currently wages are just held down in equal proportion.

It's even better than that. Under Bernie's M4A plan, my family would have saved ~$2500 yearly, just in premiums, not counting copays and deductibles. (My family's deductible was $14k last year, lol.) Even Koch-funded thinktanks that oppose universal healthcare have admitted for a few years now that M4A would save $300 billion a year.

Keeping the current private system is the fiscally irresponsible option. We're basically flushing $300 billion down the toilet, so that a few people atop a useless, parasitic industry can buy yachts. It's insane.

bobsizzle t1_iuv3yt6 wrote on November 3, 2022 at 6:13 AM

It's still not free. You should call it government subsidized or government paid. But someone will still pay. Even if you pay less. Dog shit is bigger then mouse poop, but It's still shit. My healthcare actually costs almost twice as much as yours but I have no deductible and employer pays 80 percent. I'd rather get more of that back in my paychecks, but I like being able to see a doctor when I want. And I don't go often, but when I do, it's a doctor. Socialized healthcare is better if they can give more people healthcare but at a lower cost. But I don't think it'll cost less and because Americans are fat ass and unhealthy, wait times will go up. I don't think just copying European style healthcare is the best idea. But they need to control cost and make it affordable to all. which they can do. They can lower cost, set prices. Make healthcare not for profit and compete with pharmaceutical companies to make drugs if necessary. No shareholders, just money that goes back into public coffers.

decisivemomentum t1_iuvk88z wrote on November 3, 2022 at 10:15 AM

God forbid you have to wait rather than just immediately not getting the care you need!

Srr013 t1_iuvvg8f wrote on November 3, 2022 at 12:18 PM

OP very obviously means free health insurance, which can literally be free to the individual. Get off your soapbox. Also most of what you said is quite biased. Wait times in the US aren’t significantly better than other western countries. Western countries with socialized medicine also pay less for care overall (even if it comes in the form of a tax vs an insurance payment) vs the extremely high cost of care in America.