Submitted by mycophdstudent t3_ym2f9c in vermont
CathyVT t1_iv1pde9 wrote
Reply to comment by Twombls in New England may not have enough natural gas to last the winter by mycophdstudent
Yeah, all Vermont's electricity is generated from renewable sources.
Aperron t1_iv1t1rl wrote
That map shows generation sources within the state, but Vermont produces a very small percentage of the power consumed here so it’s extremely misleading.
All electricity consumed in Vermont is pulled from the common pool that is the broader ISO New England grid. Similarly all electricity produced here, or brought in on interconnections with Canada is injected into that same regional grid. It’s one large pool of energy that is traded on a commodity market where real time prices paid by VT utilities for what they pull off the system for their customers are determined by supply and demand on that broader grid and trading market.
The finances of utilities like GMP and VELCO are absolutely affected by fluctuations and shortages in natural gas because natural gas makes up about 50% of the baseload for ISO NE. They can buffer for very short term events without having to pass the costs on in terms of rate increases, but anything substantial will require emergency rate adjustments that would almost certainly be approved by the VT utility regulators.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_iv1y3b8 wrote
> The finances of utilities like GMP and VELCO are absolutely affected by fluctuations and shortages in natural gas because natural gas makes up about 50% of the baseload for ISO NE
Not quite correct. The reason our rates have not gone up like the other NE states NH and MA have doubled is the fact the we don't use nat gas. GMP has long term contracts with Hydro Quebec, Seabrook NPP to name just a few. Those prices are stable and have no bearing on ISO NE but for the rare times they have to purchase extra power during very high use times. GMP has done great work in eliminating the need to do that with their use of Powerwalls and other grid tied battery systems. Yes the power commingles on the lines once generated but GMP pays the same to the producer not ISO NE. That's why it matters not how much nat gas is in the ISO NE mix as we don't contract with nat gas power plants.
Twombls t1_iv2qupk wrote
Very thankful VT has stable contracts with hydro quebec.
Also very thankful VT doesn't have a deregulated market like mass. Those people are screwed this winter.
wittgensteins-boat t1_iva44mj wrote
Municipalities can own distribution in Massachusetts.
Forty-one municipal electric companies serve 50 municipalities.
Via Mass. Municipal Wholesale Electric company, these municipalities have long term contracts and partial ownership of base load nuclear plants, and conventional fossil fuel plants. Their rates will be steadier and have smaller rise than in commercial electric company territories in Massachusetts.
Massachusetts municipally-owned electric companies.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massachusetts-municipally-owned-electric-companies.
Mass. Municipal Wholesale Electric Company.
https://www.mmwec.org/
Twombls t1_ivapoy0 wrote
They can but not all municipalities do. If you live outdide of a municipal electric company you are kind of screwed.
But still having a monopolistic energy company like vermont does help a lot during times of energy shortage because they are better able to negotiate prices. Even though during surplus times you may pay more.
wittgensteins-boat t1_ive57s4 wrote
Also in the vicinity of 200 non-municipal electric providing locales of the 351 total Massachusetts municipalities have engaged in aggregation contracts making for longer-term term price stability of more than a year, depending on when the contract was negotiated and whom is the provider, for consumer choice on power providers.
Municipal Aggregation.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/municipal-aggregation.
Separately state-wide there is choice on power process, in towns without municipal electric companies. Service rates apply for transport distribution of power.
Swede577 t1_iv4rndi wrote
The price increases are pretty crazy in Massachusetts. National grids rate is now an insane .48 kwh. They just took over Hawaii as the most expensive electricity in the US. Most of Hawaii's baseload power plants are oil.
Twombls t1_iv5uohz wrote
Thats because you guys have an unregulated market where your providers are trading electricity like stocks.
wittgensteins-boat t1_iva7g6q wrote
The Massachusetts Dept of Public Utilities regulates according to various statutes.
Electric providers can have long term contracts with fuel providers,
and with consuming electric distribution companies that can slow rate changes.
There are also Municipal electric companies with a different statutory regime.
Twombls t1_ivaov4l wrote
"Deregulation" or "consumer choice" is just the industry name for their style of consumer energy market
wittgensteins-boat t1_ive5r51 wrote
Municipalities can own distribution in Massachusetts.
Fortty-one municipal electric companies serve 50 municipalities, out of 351 municipalities in Massachusetts.
Via Mass. Municipal Wholesale Electric company, these municipalities have long term contracts and partial ownership of base load nuclear plants, and conventional fossil fuel plants, peaking plants and Solar production sites and a Hydro Quebec sourcing agreement on power lines MMEC has transport rights for. The MMWEC rates will be steadier and have smaller rise than in commercial electric company territories in Massachusetts. Some Vermont utilities are partners with MMWEC projects.
Massachusetts municipally-owned electric companies. https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massachusetts-municipally-owned-electric-companies.
Mass. Municipal Wholesale Electric Company. https://www.mmwec.org/
Hydro Quebec agreement.
https://www.mmwec.org/wp-content/uploads/DEED-Grants-Announcement-release-final.pdf
Also in the vicinity of 200 of 351 municipalities have engaged in contracts making for longer-term term price stability of more than a year, depending on when the contract was negotiated and whom is the provider, for consumer choice on power providers.
Municipal Aggregation. https://www.mass.gov/info-details/municipal-aggregation.
Separately state-wide there is choice and term of time for power process, in towns without municipal electric companies. This also can give price stability to consumers for a contracted period. Separate Service rates eapply for transport of power.
https://www.energyswitchma.gov.
Then outside of these programs, the default utility has rate setting review via the Mass. Dept. Of Public Utilities.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massachusetts-electric-rates-and-tariffs.
mycophdstudent OP t1_iv36pbk wrote
Washington Electric Coop sources 15.67% of its electricity from the New York Power Authority (https://www.washingtonelectric.coop/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2021-WEC-Sources-of-Power.pdf ) which generates roughly 21% from natural gas/79% from hydro according to this Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Power_Authority
WikiSummarizerBot t1_iv36r2t wrote
>The New York Power Authority (NYPA), officially the Power Authority of the State of New York, is a New York State public-benefit corporation. It is the largest state public power utility in the United States. NYPA provides some of the lowest-cost electricity in the nation, operating 16 generating facilities and more than 1,400 circuit-miles of transmission lines. Its main administrative offices are in White Plains.
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Sdwingnut t1_iv1th1m wrote
The "renewable" terminology strikes me as misleading to some extent All energy sources are renewable, including oil and natural gas. Just not necessarily on a time scale that makes them available to us anytime soon
CathyVT t1_iv1tx44 wrote
OK, fine: "non-petroleum sources"
Sdwingnut t1_iv1ucw6 wrote
Not trying to be pedantic, but it makes the point that petroleum/gas/coal companies could label their products as "renewable" and not be incorrect
Human802 t1_iv24kd8 wrote
That’s a poor understanding of geology you are displaying.
Sdwingnut t1_iv254hm wrote
How so? Shale and oil fields will certainly reform over hundreds of thousands to millions of years from currently living organic matter if left to decompose undisturbed.
Edit: I'm fine with the downvotes , particularly if they are accompanied by scientific references to prove me wrong. I'll be happy to admit it if I can learn more about fundamental differences in geology now compared to millions of years ago.
Shep_Book t1_iv2ltan wrote
Something to consider is that we have a lot more organisms that can break down organic matter before it has time to be turned into oil. One theory is that oil and gas would have a hard time regenerating while there are organisms that can break down and convert the matter, putting it back in the carbon cycle.
It’s why, while I love trees and I think they are great, eventually they die and decompose, releasing all the stored carbon back into the atmosphere.
Electrical-Bed8577 t1_iv3juop wrote
Unless they burn first. Then it isn't condensed compost and eventually oil, long after we're gone. It's carbon in the atmosphere. Carbon in the atmosphere does not turn into an oil resource bubbling up from Jed's place. It just gets super warm and really hard for us to breathe. Then, after we decompose for millennia, there may be some oil bubbling up.
Sdwingnut t1_iv2r1vv wrote
It's not a bad hypothesis, but methane (the simplest of all hydrocarbons at CH4 and the major component of natural gas) results from many different biochemical metabolic pathways. If anything, more organisms results in faster breakdown of complex organic matter into simpler molecules. But I don't know if there truly are more organisms now than a million or even a hundred million years ago. The Cambrian Explosion was more than half a billion years ago.
wittgensteins-boat t1_iva80uw wrote
Renewable is understood to be in a term of months to years, not eons.
The sun is renewable under your metaphysics, by future stars consuming its matter.
gorillatick t1_iv5b662 wrote
ackshually
mycophdstudent OP t1_ivabd8h wrote
Plastic can be turned into diesel. Your comment being downvoted is why I sort comments by most downvotes to find reason.
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