Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

thunder-cricket t1_iv2x8qz wrote

Reply to comment by mountainofclay in New England may not have enough natural gas to last the winter by mycophdstudent

If there's no heating oil, everyone's gonna be heating with wood. And that will be a problem there.

9

mountainofclay t1_iv46w1b wrote

Well the post was talking about natural gas, not oil. Plus I believe most people would install electric heat pumps. Most of the electric in Vermont comes from hydro in Canada. No shortage of that. I wish I had natural gas where I am. I’d use it but I wouldn’t rely on just one fuel.

−1

Most_Expert_8080 t1_iv4ssd9 wrote

Electric heat pumps are extremely expensive and do not work when it is very cold…

2

mountainofclay t1_iv59xy2 wrote

I agree which is why I don’t have one but I suppose if most people used them the price would come down and it would reduce the use of other fuels like NG so that the supposed shortage of NG wouldn’t be an issue. I seriously looked into a heat pump to heat during the “shoulder” seasons but like you said, the high initial cost is tough to swallow. As it is I don’t think there is any shortage of NG. Just scare mongering. I’m reluctant to electrify everything. I’d rather have more control of what I need. I don’t know how there won’t be a shortage of electricity if cars all go electric. I have wood available or can buy it locally so I primarily use that but I also use propane and electric when I have to. I feel sorry for city people who don’t have access to alternative fuels. They are at the mercy of large industry.

1

thunder-cricket t1_iv6k561 wrote

My bad, saying oil instead of gas. But my point remains.

If fuel X is a critical commodity in your state for heat during deadly cold winters, and you hear news there's going to be a severe shortage, saying "No problem here. I use fuel Y." is quite shortsighted.

1

mountainofclay t1_iv8ad4a wrote

Not for me personally because I have acres of hardwood trees I can cut. For those that don’t have this I agree.

1

thunder-cricket t1_iv8dw2k wrote

No for you too, bro.

Those trees you cut down won't grow back for to a similar size for decades or more. What are you gonna do when they are gone, if the shortage of fuel X continues or worsens in coming years?

Also, If it's so bad that you have to cut down your own trees for fuel to heat your house that will be true for hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of other land owners as well throughout VT and other New England states. So now we have millions of acres deforested, and all the negative economic and environmental consequences that come from it.

Also prices for goods and services that you use which really on heating sources besides wood are shooting up so you have more inflation going through the roof, not just for heating fuel. So you'll be paying more for other things along with everyone else.

Also poverty goes up, shortage of basic resources. That means joblessness, homelessness, crime and other social maladies go up. That affect you, also. Maybe some desperate people poach some of your hardwood trees so they don't freeze to death.

I was having a similar discussion with a Vermonter on this sub a few days ago who was arguing the $3B/year tourism industry didn't impact him because he personally didn't have a job tied to the tourism industry. Like he wasn't personally running a country store, selling maple-leaf shaped bottles of syrup to tourists, so that $3B had nothing to to with him, so fuck tourism. People really don't get how economies work.

1

mountainofclay t1_iv8gc3f wrote

I have 10 acres of hardwoods that I bought 30 years ago. I’ve cut firewood on it every year. Usually between 4 to 6 cords. I’ve also logged off the softwood twice in that time. There is now much more wood on that land than when I started. As far as it being sustainable and carbon neutral here is an article about this. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/11/09/climate-curious-is-burning-wood-for-heat-carbon-neutral. In the late 1800s Vermont was largely deforested because of over harvesting. Much of the forest was simply burned down to make pasture for livestock. Wasted, in other words. Now the opposite is true. I agree that if everyone used wood to heat with and didn’t manage the forest properly then it would become deforested. I never said everyone should burn wood but only that for me it makes sense. Most people around me burn wood for part of their heat and the forest keeps growing. Many people who don’t burn wood do so because it is labor intensive. I get that, believe me. The good thing is the amount of labor required to cut a cord of wood stays the same. Price of other fuels fluctuates wildly and sends huge amounts of money into the hands of utility conglomerates and in some cases foreign governments that do not have our best interests at heart. I prefer to not give my money to the Saudi Arabians or Shell oil if I don’t have to. If you live in areas that are not forested than burning wood makes less sense.

1