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BeckyKleitz t1_iwywsen wrote

Reply to comment by codeQueen in My New Favorite Past Time: Hyping up Dad When he Shoots a Deer by KaleChipp11

What is the problem is that there are no natural predators for the deer up there in Vermont/New England anymore. Sure there's a few coyotes, bear and wildcats, but they only take young, weak and/or sick animals, not full-grown healthy animals.

And Vermont's so overpopulated with people now, that it's impossible to even consider reintroducing larger predators like wolves into the state...

What's going to happen is that a major disease is going to strike the deer herds and it's going to wipe them out. That's what happens when herding animals get overpopulated. They starve or they get diseased. But I'm sure all you hunters will fix everything for us.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ix15ubt wrote

“A few coyotes” are you fucking high? I’m up to 12 I’ve shot this year and I’m barely making a dent on the cocksuckers that like to get right on my porch.

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BeckyKleitz t1_ix19lpg wrote

So why are you complaining about there being too many deer then? Stop killing the coyotes and kill more deer.

Predators have to eat too, yahno.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ix1a0bs wrote

Dumbass. I tag out every year in Vermont. Also hunt MA, NH and ME. Coyotes are invasive and need to be killed as recommended by our state biologists, unlimited.

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18Nightcaller21 t1_ix1q10v wrote

Where does the state biologist say they need to be killed? Invasive also doesn't necessarily mean bad. Compared to other invasive (emerald ash borer, Asian carp, etc.) their economic/ecological damage isn't quite as noticeable because they lived in the Western US/humans killed the elk, mountain lion, and wolves that normally lived in this area. VT fish and game recognizes their importance to the ecosystem since evey other major predator here has been extirpated.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ixi87yz wrote

To answer your question, yes you are correct. Coyotes fill a man made void in our ecosystem that is crucial. But as they’re population doesn’t self regulate in the same way that wolves and lions do, if they were left unchecked we would see worse issues than we do now. We will never eradicate coyotes, and I have no pipe dream of believing that, but with constantly curtailing their populations locally we can minimize the predation.

As far as the state biologists supporting our current unlimited hunting of coyotes, the fact that we still have that ability despite what the “Vermont Coyote Coexistence Coalition” morons trying to get that banned is proof of that. Seasons on all animals are very closely regulated by biologists, and following their recommendations is extremely important. Letting peoples emotions control legislation is never a good idea.

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BeckyKleitz t1_ix42u44 wrote

Outrageous Outsider thinks he's hurtin' somebody by calling them stupid childish names.

He's just a dude with a need to kill living things.

I don't kill what I don't eat. Hence, I don't hunt deer. I will hunt squirrels (a real invasive and damaging animal), rabbits, and wild game birds but I'd never shoot a coyote just because it was there. Even the ones around my farm. I've never had them get close enough to the house to worry about them. None of my cattle raising neighbors have had any of their livestock bothered by them.

Folks like that Outsider dude shouldn't be allowed to hunt in Vermont, or anywhere really.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ixi6r8q wrote

I eat everything I kill except coyotes. I’m glad your neighbors don’t have issues with coyotes, I do. We have lost calves, had one cow half eaten that we than had to put down, sheep and pets. Our area has a massive overpopulation of coyotes.

Also you are correct, as a hunter and a farmer I have a need to kill living things. That need stems from feeding my family and neighbors.

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Redstoneprime t1_ixhw94z wrote

Pretty sure coyotes are literally native to America, though? Which means they are 100% NOT invasive.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ixi4qkg wrote

Coyotes are invasive to the northeast, also our coyotes in the northeast have a lot of dog and Timberwolf bred in. While they are filling a gap in our predator population and serve a purpose, they are invasive and need to be heavily controlled.

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Redstoneprime t1_ixi4yiy wrote

Not as bad as the invasive feral hogs, though (since, unlike the hogs, the coyotes aren't causing any damage to the ecosystem).

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ixi5cri wrote

Yeah, we are extremely lucky to not have hogs here. Probably only a matter of time before the guy in orange has a bunch out again for a year and starts a friggin feral hog population.

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Redstoneprime t1_ixi5i1i wrote

Also: did the coyotes enter the area naturally or were they introduced by humans?

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ixi60vv wrote

Humans eradicated timberwolves in the northeast, western coyotes bred with timberwolves and were able to acclimate here, they have since bred with dogs as well. They are a much larger animal than a western coyote. They didn’t appear in Vermont until the 1940’s and didn’t really get a large population until the 1960’s. By definition though, they are a non native species to the east and are thereby invasive.

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Redstoneprime t1_ixi8j94 wrote

I guess, in a way, it's nature trying to fill in a niche that was previously done by another species that has been hunted to near extinction.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ixi6917 wrote

It’s honestly a fascinating phenomenon, but to think that just letting them be would solve the issue is asinine. They are a product of humans fuckups and therefor need human control. They are impossible to eradicate, but still need to be consistently kept in check.

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