I mean there are tons and tons of hiking areas that are available to the public. They are typically land trusts meant for that purpose and are well marked since the all typically run up against posted property. The state also has plenty of state parks with camping and hiking access.

Very little posted land, and no trespassing laws unless posted. Most land that is posted is some rich out of stater that doesnt like hunting.

Sorry man, only numbers I am able to find are 10 years old.

https://www.benningtonbanner.com/local-news/amount-of-posted-land-increasing-in-vermont/article_4f5e6a63-bfbb-5aea-a0ae-2927fc2deb3f.html

You could do some extrapolation but it would probably not be accurate. Hopefully someone has the answer as it is an interesting question. Also, I think there is a difference between no hunting posting and no trespassing posting.

The government owns a fair chunk. > Vermont by the numbers > – Land owned by federal government: 7.8% (465,888 of 5.9 million acres) > – Land owned by agency: FS (88.1%), FWS (7.3%), DOD (2.4%), NPS (2.1%) > – Percent change since 1990: +34.4%

Compared to western states, Vermont has a large percentage of private land.

However, what makes VT unique is the amount of public access to private lands. Forests in the north are comminly owned by large timber or maple companies but maintain public access easements for hiking, winter access, and permitted hunting. You'll have WMAs or state parks or town forests here and there, but only sporadically.

Similarly, most mountain biking networks traverse private lands with permission. VT has robust legislation to limit landowner liability, and we're lucky enough to have landowners excited to be a part of mountain bike networks.

The south has bug chunks of National Forest where there's tons of access. But that's a small minority of the state's area.

It’s always good to ask permission though if you’re on private property, especially since there are a lot of hunters and it’s always good for the landowner to know who is on their land. I’ve lived in VT my whole life and always asked permission for access to unposted property, but I have noticed since owning property it isn’t the case for all hunters/people.

A lot of people wont mind if you’re just passing through (if the area is popular for recreation), because its pretty common for hunters to walk through land in certain areas, but goes without saying, leave immediately when asked and you usually will not run into issues.

Even if it's posted. A kind letter to the property owner asking for permission, and maybe some meat from the harvest goes a long way.

These are interesting stats, thanks for sharing. Just note that you'll need to add state lands to that. The statistics seem only to refer to federally owned land.

What if a new owner was less than excited about sharing his property with a hiking trail or path? Would he/she just have to put up with it?

It's their land, their choice what to do with it.

I maintain the ones on my property since I use it, some neighbors might, and I'm fine with the public using it. Someone started making their own bike trail through a sensative area, so I made those signs go away (the orange flags they put up) and they took the hint to use the established trail a short distance away. Other than that we put up "no littering" signs and people stopped tossing dog poop bags and trash so people are generally good.

Sure does, all growing up my dad had posted signs on our land, but added his phone number to them, he more just wanted to know who was walking around our woods than actually keeping people out

This, it’s very easy to find out who owns property via the state’s parcel viewer online. I don’t post my property, but if I found someone setting up tree stands with out having the decency to ask permission or open a dialogue first, you can bet I’m asking them to leave. I’d say it’s that kind of scenario that gets land posted more often than not.

Vermont also has very strong common law River access, so if your property is riverfront it's very difficult to post it.

I’m not saying I will move to Vermont but I’m 6 months away from getting my degree and let’s say there’s a really good job opportunity there, is there any way for me not to be disliked for being a out of stater? Very very unlikely I will but I’m curious

Can't speak for all of Vermont since different regions have different flavors, but nobody in real life here has given any hint that they dislike us for being from out of state, and everybody around us knows. (We seem to have been a subject of town gossip before we even got here.) Everybody has been extremely nice, much more so than I'm used to, and folks have shown up at random and lent a hand a number of times.

ETA: How not to be disliked as best as I can tell: "When in Rome" it. You're moving to Vermont. Figure out the basic culture, how to be a Vermonter, and be that. People the world over basically don't want outsiders changing their way of life. Also, just be a nice person who lends a hand when you can. Nobody likes jerks.

Been in VT off and on for many years, and also lived in PDX for a while. Over half the population of VT seems to be out-of-staters at this point

Not necessarily. For most recreational mountain bike trails I'm familiar with, access is at the landowner's discretion. Famously, a few years ago, landowners in East Burke revoked access on what had been some of the most popular trails in the state.

On the other hand, I know of some properties that the state sold to timber companies where public hiking access was a condition of the sale. Not sure what sort of legal process would need to happen to get that changed.

And then there are town highways and legal trails. These are public rights of way found on the town highway map that pass through private parcels. If a new landowner wanted to prevent access, they'd need to go through the town selectboard who would bring it to a vote. This seems to happen regularly.

Our land is posted and I can assure you we're not rich out of staters, but we would like to be able to actually walk around in our woods without fear of being shot. There's LOADS of land near here open to hunting, my little bit of space doesn't have to be open to everyone.

I can’t answer your question, but, there are 62 million acres of state land in Oregon, all of it open to public use - 10 times the size of the entire state of Vermont.

Western states have far more public land than Vermont. It’s not even close

When I was growing up, our land in the NEK was always open to people. That all changed when they started abusing our generosity and left trash all over. The last straw was when one "hunter" actually told a family member to leave because "he was there first". My dad quickly showed him the error of his ways and escorted the jerk off the property. It's been posted since. I would prefer to be more neighborly but I've seen that abused far too often

This isnt an attack on people who post their land...your choice. My stance on it is that if you post your land, i better not find you walking on mine. Vermont is full of beautiful mountaintops, a lot of them private property. As someone who owns such property, i feel it would be very selfish to post that and not let others enjoy. As i enjoy thousands of acres in my town (respectfully) without permission.

Side note: Hunters wont just shoot you, and you should wear orange during hunting season regardless of how posted your land is. Most respectful hunters will ask before parking and hunting on your land, and certainly before setting up a tree stand.

Im not telling anyone to just go hunt someones land without asking. In my town it seems as though property sells, and immediately gets posted...cant say i know the back story on all of those scenarios.

As far as hiking, i personally wouldnt expect someone to ask me if they wanted to hike up to the top of my mountain and enjoy the view. Have at it. If you want to park in my driveway, i would expect you to ask.

You can’t make everyone happy I’m sure, but I haven’t encountered anyone who has seemed to be annoyed that I’m not from VT, been here about 3 years. I found that actually people are way friendlier here than MA where I am from.

They can post it, unless there's some other unusual easement or covenant that is at issue.

In addition to what others have said, it should be noted that organizations like the GMC (hiking), VAST (snow machines), and VMBA (mountain bikes) do work with landowners to be good stewards of the land.

Out of starers get a lot of hate on this sub, not so much in real life. Be a good neighbor and participate in your community and you’ll be fine.

You certainly seem hostile to people who post. That's your right, but own it.

Same with snowmobile trails. It’s up to the landowner.

For sure it is, unless your tracking and happen to pass through multiple owners. As for the stands, permissions required.

Percentage per acre. Vermont is smaller than California. God people are dumb.

Way too much! But lots of public land and most posted land people don't mind you using if you just ask and are respectful.

“Less than 15 percent of Vermont held by the public, split between federal (7.3 percent), state (6.4 percent), and municipal (0.7 percent) ownership”

“Oregon has a sizable public land base, with approximately 53 percent of its 61 million acres in federal lands, most of it managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service”

God people are dumb

Posting is selfish in Vermont, and not in the traditions of our state. That’s the reality. Our history of public access to private lands go back to our founding 250 years ago. Hostility toward people who post is not a bad thing here, as it’s a cultural shift away from what has historically made Vermont what it is.

Do no harm. The most basic concept to keep people happy with you. If your looking at a house don’t get in a bidding war with a local family. If you think guns are evil, drop that at the state line. Don’t post your land, find a hobby you like and become active in that community, but don’t be over eager to try to lead/take things over. Don’t complain that Vermont isn’t XYZ place. Don’t drive in the passing lane not passing. When called a flat lander accept that even though your mountains are 3x as tall we are right. Call people from NJ MA NY CT etc flatlanders.

Pretty much just don’t try to change it here.

Vermont is not generally a "get off my land" type of place like I've seen elsewhere. Though of course people will not tolerate anyone trashing or abusing their property, I think there is a sense that it is somewhat selfish/uncivil to post one's property. Share the beauty, and others will do likewise.

Oregon does have a ton it’s such a blessing, a lot of it is in the desert tho which is actually pretty cool, a lot of the forests are burned down , and if it’s not burned it’s logged so it’s kinda hard to find like a nice peaceful spot maybe I’m just lazy and haven’t been looking hard enough

One of the worst parts about Vermont is finding a good job. I'm out of state been here for 12 years, 4 in college. Purchased a house 2 years ago.

Do: Embrace everything Vermont has to offer kindly, and people will be more than happy to meet you.

Don't: Try and change the smell of cow shit, gravel roads, ban guns, personal farms, add billboards, shitty corporations, add street lights, and discuss religion.

All that being said, a job opportunity in Burlington Brattleboro or Newport. Will get you 3 very different experiences.

The degree I’m getting is in Mechatronics and industrial atomization, and I have been working on semiconductor manufacturing I wonder if Vermont has any jobs in that field, yeah I love guns I’d never change that, Oregon just passed the strictest gun law in the country and it’s kinda crazy. Vermont doesn’t have billboards or street lights?

Dude no one cares that you’re out of state so long as you don’t come in flashing money, hoarding resources, or expecting to turn your county red.

Same goes for any state (variable on politics)

No billboards allowed. Street lights, yes, but out of necessity in town and city limits

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That is so cool actually

Ok

You would be working in the Burlington area in that field

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What’s your opinion of That area?

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I moved here from the dreaded California(!) last year. I love it here and I love all my neighbors and community. I've made some great friends. And I've felt nothing but love and welcome.

That's been my experience 100%. i'm glad I didn't find this sub before I moved here!

If you're on the western side of Vermont, then the Adirondack state park in NY is very close and there are no issues with private property and it's huge.

Most land is posted. It’s much much smaller in New England.

I like it here. I wouldn't mind living 35 to 50 minutes out of town to have more land, privacy, and freedom..but i like diverse food, bars, and events more.

Speaking on behalf of my family, and some of their own personal experiences, I think if you are able to find and speak with the land owner, and make it known that you’re only interested in hiking vs. hanging out & having illegal underaged drinking parties, there is a good chance they‘ll be willing to come to an agreement, and allow you to use their property.

It’s the people that drive their vehicles onto other peoples land without permission, steal, and engage in other inappropriate behavior that oftentimes causes landowners to post their land.

I lived in Lamoille County for a few years. Lots of land for recreation and outdoor activities. Great, ski mountains, lakes, hunting but not much else.

I have no problem with people posting their land, but if it is 'land use' (which means lower taxes) it shouldn't be allowed to be posted at all.

If you post your land you should have to pay full property tax.

If you don’t post your land you pay less? THATS SO COOL

It's a shame, it's probably even the same moron.

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They have to post it yearly

It's a bit more complicated than that. Look up Vermont's "Current Use" program. Other states, at least in the NE USA, have similar programs

Depends what part of VT you are in, judging by the responses here. I'm in southern VT and most of the private land I come across is posted. I also post my land, but that's because Ive had numerous folks (particularly hunters) coming onto my property behaving recklessly, leaving garbage behind, and being generally disrespectful. But the green mountain national forest is vast and beautiful.

https://www.mynbc5.com/article/globalfoundries-funding-chip-production-vermont/41649862

HOLY COW YOURE KIDDING thank you for linking me!!!!

I think 70% of Nevada is federal lands.

You're welcome. Get a job and make a donation to your new favorite VT charity.

Portland microcosm

Wanting to be able to be safe on your own land is not selfish. Thinking you have the right to walk around and shoot shit on other peoples' property is.

Basically be as ignorant as the locals? You can post land if you own it, and maybe stop calling people flatlanders because you sound like idiots. I'm from NH and was called a flatlander. People in VT hate on others from outside the state and then also rely on their tourism. Makes about zero sense.

It’s more like 85%. We call it the “poor man’s Alaska”

Like most have said, it depends on area. I will say though that even posted land can be explored if you’re respectful. I can’t speak for all of Vermont but in my area as long as you aren’t hunting or leaving trash most people don’t care if you explore posted property.

As long as you respect Vermont for what it is and understand the ways in which it differs from a lot of other places, that'll put you miles ahead of many other out-of-staters we get here. It seems to be a theme that folks will move here without knowing what it's really like, and when they realize that they can't get DoorDash in their rural town or go to the store at 11pm or there isn't public transportation, then the complaints start. To take it a step further, if those people have enough money to gain any sort of influence, they begin to want to change things and that's usually where the red line is drawn. Basically, we don't mind out-of-staters in general, but we value our state and our way of life, and we resent it when people come here and bitch about it, or try to make it more like the place they came from, instead of appreciating Vermont for what it is. As long as you're not That Person, you'll be totally fine! Definitely come by for a visit sometime if you're considering moving; while it's hard to totally capture the vibe of a place with just a short visit, it should still give you a fairly good idea. :)

#stolen lands

Our farm has never been posted and never will be. We’ve had zero problems with keeping our land open. Hunters are very respectful and foragers typically ask. Vermont has always been an open land state and I hope it can remain so. Newcomers knee jerk reaction to post their properties is a worrisome trend.

Interesting article about this: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/26/business/hunting-wyoming-elk-mountain-access.html

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You’ve already condemned yourself for being an out of stater and you don’t even live here yet. You can’t go through life terrified of being the new guy unless you’re willing to work the same job your entire life in the same town of the same state with the same friends you had since high school.

Being new in a place isn’t inherently wrong and don’t give too much legitimacy to people who may hate you exclusively because they don’t know you yet. People move around, it’s been part of humanity from the beginning. The key is PARTICIPATING as a member of the community, and that’s actually true everywhere. Any club, any group - when you’re the new guy, be kind, listen, and participate. Don’t shun yourself into a corner and be strange. Engage!

I don't want random strangers with guns wandering around my yard/woods. That's not selfish. There aren't many spots on our land where you're not fairly close to a home. It's not appropriate.

Don’t go by folks in r/vermont. This forum is very much against outsiders. However, I’ve never seen any of that attitude in real life here.

No it’s being a traditional Vermonter. This stuff is LITTERALLY written into the state constitution. So posting is as I said a selfish action that goes against what it means to be a Vermonter. Also posting unless you have a GIANT plot of land isn’t exactly protecting you from the irrational fear of a hunter. A .308 round can travel over 1000 yards. Take a look at a map and circle 1000 yards from your living room. Do you own all that? And is it posted? If not posting isn’t increasing your safety. Also hunting accidents are extremely rare.

The most recent stats I can find are from NY state showing that incidents 1 incident per 100,000 hunters, and showed that all incidents were among hunters not non hunters for the year in the article. It is exceedingly rare (not never) for a person who is not involved in hunting to be involved in a hunting related accident. So the fear that it will happen to you, and the action to post land to avoid it, is irrational and not based on an actual threat/risk. Your risk of a drunk driver visiting your bedroom with their pickup truck at night are higher than a hunter shooting you while hunting.

I was going to say most land owners are reasonable unless you encroach on there home or f@ck with their land by polluting, tearing it up or hunting when it’s not allowed.

I like my neighbors and I didn't mind people going through when they behaved but that courtesy seems to have fallen by the wayside. It didn't stop with the posting either: just recently some jerk with out of state plates parked on my camp road so I couldn't drive in. I left as polite a note as I was capable of at the time but he damn near had his pretty, expensive SUV relocated by a logging skidder

The fact is that you’ll get shit for it from people who are looking for a reason to give you shit, but there’s not always a ton of vitriol behind it. I’d get something like it for being from a different part of the Vermont, were I to encounter a similarly minded person born in the town I moved to almost a decade ago. Tribalism is tribalism.

Practically, this will mean very little to you, particularly if you’re looking at Chittenden County. Chittenden has more transplants and resembles other places a lot more, socially, than most of Vermont, and it’s also where most of the jobs that might bring in someone from all the way out in Oregon are located.

My wife is from New Jersey originally, but always belonged here, even before she moved 20 years ago. If Vermont calls to you, I’m guessing you’ll find a place, too…although I will say that a lot of folks from out west find us nosey, judgmental, and impolite in our directness. And, ya know, being honest, those people probably have a point, but my VT-raised friends who have gone west for any period of time have found west-coast social mores to be more distant, shallow, and impersonal than they’d prefer. See about spending some time out here - especially in the times like right now or late March, when this state is generally considered to be at its least appreciable. If you can find ways to be happy during these times, you’ll be good.

I will give you one piece of advice to avoid raising a Vermonter’s ire, and that would be to avoid the “ya know what you need around here is [insert thing that we actively have resisted]”. As long as you’re asking a question about something we’ll talk your ear off (see: this massive fucking reply), but until a Vermonter personally feels you understand some of their perceived nuance behind some issues, your opinion will be taken as ignorance or out-of-state bullshit. I’ve only ever lived here, but I have a feeling that this is a universal truth that Vermonters just take to an unhealthy and jerkish extreme at times.

Good luck with your move - or not move! Either way, you should come and visit. I LOVE Oregon, and while we can’t match the scale or majesty or your nature, we have a very accessible and beautiful bit of it here. Also, there’s a really similar ethos among the two pretty divergent groups of people (Burlington = Portland, Newport = Baker City, roughly) and if you understand how to respectfully operate in both places the state is really varied and fun to explore no matter where you’re from. Hope to see you around sometime!

Amen to this.

Thought so. I was originally going to say 90% but tailed it back since I was drawing on faded memory.

Not sure why you got downvoted, I had the same attitude when I first moved here. I decided not to vote on any local issues for the first few years because I really don’t know what the state needs yet and because I don’t just vote for what I want but what I think will benefit most people.

Honestly, you should not worry about this. I’m from Vermont and have even been treated like shit and was even threatened once by some asshole because I was in a car with California plates. The car was my mothers, the same woman who raised me in Vermont. She moved to CA came for a visit on a cross country trip and this was her welcome home.

My point here, the people that would treat you negatively for not being from here literally will find any and all reasons to be assholes to others. They are the minority though, and no one likes them.

So please, live your life and live where you want. For most of us, the second you step over the state line, you are welcomed with open arms even if your just here for the weekend.

Shhh. Don't tell them.

The street light thing is changing rapidly in Chittenden County as morons from away take hold in local government. It's really disgusting.

That was the largest semi conductor fab in the world at one point.

That, in and of itself, tells me you wouldn't 'get it' here.

Yeah Chittenden County. You will have that as the population grows. Places like Shelburne Road are deadly to foot and bike traffic, and lighting does help that. We do have a housing crisis, and that will result in development like it or not. Vermomt needs it.

Piggybacking onto your post, I wonder how folks feel about land being posted and fenced for livestock. We are looking to move to VT and plan on bringing our fiber farm with us. We have to have rather substantial fences to contain the sheep and livestock guardian dogs, so I don't know if posting would really be necessary if the pastures were fenced. Would people really hate us if we fenced open pastures for livestock?

I'll politely yet vigorously disagree with your last sentence.

This sounds very Kingdom like gossip then become best friends. A majority of people we meet are transplants in some nature or another.

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I know people that got fed up with needy hikers and kicked the Long Trail off of their property. It really messed up the LT.

The owners were so fed up with strangers asking for favors. Hikers were constantly knocking on their door.

It seems that a lot of my neighbors have some connection to CA, I’ve never felt any hatred for CA where I live. That said, when driving across the country with CA plates I received a lot of unsolicited negative opinions in the various states in between.

Well, you can see how well that kind of attitude is working for Upstate NY. Short-sighted, selfish but polite.

Land that my great grandfather hunted, through my grandfather through me was sold after the landowner passed last winter. It was just posted this past Saturday. My cousin is headed up to talk to him as my brother and I both live out of state. (Also my Dad is a landowner there so this is one of the adjacent properties but my Dad cannot hunt anymore). Hasn’t ever been posted in over 100 years and the house was built up there in 2002.