Submitted by SmokeAdministrative7 t3_zwg673 in vermont
So to make it as short as possible I am moving in with a friend of mine on the 1st the lease is signed and everything, problem being is that the current person in the room I'm taking is refusing to move out even though the current lease is almost up, I'm basically wondering if I have any options here or how I can go about this any help or advice is much appreciated thank you all
To add on... Roll into their bedroom around 3am and quietly brush their beautiful hair every night...
Yeah! Lead them on too!
Tell them their woodpile looks like a high schooler stacked it.
geez-em-crow that's low!
16 year old me would be very offended right now lmao
OP asked for tips about getting them to move out, not how to marry the person in the room.
Usually ends up with one party leaving
Never forget to borrow their retainer, put it back, then leave a note.
Now, that, qualifies as a weird situation!
yes. and piss on the door. mark your territory.
always establish hard eye contact.
there are not enough sicknutleys in this world. Funny stuff, my wise cracking Captain.
Bring a chamberpot and use it.
They don’t have to be out until the date that their lease is up. There is nothing you can do about this situation and tbh it’s way above your pay-grade as you’re a future tenant and not the owner of the rental. The owner needs to address this once the current renter’s lease has expired. Have you involved the landlord yet?
They don't have to move out after either.
Landlord will have to start eviction process if they don't move out on time. Will take a few months.
No. But if they have a job or ever leave the house, the locks can be changed quite quickly. Then its VT. Sit outside with your bong and your gun, and wait
Do not change the locks on someone who had legal residence at a place.
It is illegal and the courts will look poorly on you.
The tenant can also call the sherriff/police and have them break down the door and you as the landlord are required to get a new door and lock for them.
There is one legal way to evict someone, and the courts will look down poorly on any other attempts.
However, If the tenant vacates ( shows good evidence they've moved out of the property/ no longer intend to inhabit it) then you can change the locks on them.
You must securely store their property for up to 30 days I think and allow them to retrieve it. You can charge a reasonable storage fee.
There are so many limitations in Vermont
Years ago this guy this local guy that had a bunch of rental properties and someone quit paying and would not move out he would send a construction crew by and remove all the windows and doors and then they would leave. Can’t do that anymore. It took my brother 3 months to evict a tenant who quit paying.
It is 100% not illegal to change locks after a lease has expired and appropriate documentation(by state) has informed them of their expired lease.
You are wrong. The last two places I moved out of had painters and new locks installed as I was moving out
This is because you vacated the property willingly.
If the tenant is refusing to vacate, you cannot attempt to evict them by changing the locks.
Exactly correct. Part of my work involves evictions.
And your assuming they never leave the house
There's a legal definition to vacating a property and leaving the house to go to work does not meet it.
This is like landlord 101 in Vermont.
Not only is that definitely illegal unless the tenant willingly vacated, but it's even illegal to kick a friend out of your house and change the locks if you've let them stay there for over 30 days. Technically anyone who is permitted to stay at your residence for 30+ days is a tenant, and is (legally) subject to the same eviction proceedings that you'd have to go through if you'd rented them the place and they refused to leave.
Your locks were changed because you willingly moved out. If you had refused to move out, it would have been completely illegal to change the locks until eviction proceedings had run their course in court.
The only option if they don’t leave is to evict them after the first. Only the landlord (or in some rare cases the primary leaseholder) can do this and it will take 2-6 months. Legal aid and other nonprofits don’t help landlords so it will cost 2-5k. Honestly, you should start looking for backup accommodations if you think they won’t leave.
Are they refusing to move out NOW? If their lease isn’t up, they have every right to remain there. Have they indicated that they do not plan on moving out on or before the 1st? That’s when you have a problem. If that’s the case your best course of action is finding a backup plan. A tenant who hasn’t moved in has no legal recourse. Don’t pay the landlord first month rent if you haven’t yet.
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It is not the 1st yet. Wait and see.
Don’t harass them.
After the first, maybe the landlord/sublessor pay $30 to LegalShield to get an inexpensive lawyer to start eviction process? (Although LegalShield gets mixed reviews)
Also, r/legal might have some tips.
Is this a sublet?
Is it a legal sublet?
Tenants don’t have standing to evict, it’s on the landlord to bring an action for possession.
Tenants can evict subtenants. OP posted and ghosted without many details so hard to tell how the lease was structured and what their options may be
True, though since they describe it as “moving in” it seems like a new lease and not a sub of an existing lease
And if the current tenant decides to renew their lease, and keeps paying then, there is absolutely nothing you can do. And why would the landlord do anything when they already have a paying tenant?
Last I heard (and it's been a long while) people cannot be evicted in Winter in Vermont.
So if it’s summer time you have a claim to make them vacate your home or property?
Apparently, they can be evicted in Winter: "NOTICE: A tenant can be evicted at any time of year, even in the winter, and even if the tenant has children or a disability, provided the tenant has been given a proper notice and legal process." When my in-laws evicted someone (1985) they had to go to court and the process took a couple months.
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Haha had a similar situation years ago, i was trying to be proactive and asked them about moving stuff a few days before the end of the month and he was like “I’ve got time” I showed up on the 1st with all my shit and just started dragging my mattress in “his room” lol he got the message
If the person doesn't leave, the unfortunate reality is that you have no legal claim to the rental as you never officially took possession. It would be on the landlord to get them out.
You might have a claim against the landlord for failing to provide the product (apartment) in the contract (lease), but that would probably also have to go to court. You would most likely lose if you accept the deposit back.
Work on a backup plan as both could take months to resolve.
The lease is a contract with a start date so that is a claim to the place. Reach out to a housing or contract lawyer (there are free services in the state) and explain the situation. The current tenant has a move out date. If they have made it clear that they are not leaving at that date the landlord should be preparing to evict. That’s not your place but you should speak to the landlord to make sure they are going to deal with it. As soon as there was an executed lease, you are under contract. I don’t think you’ll be legally obligated to pay rent to keep the contract valid but an attorney can explain everything.
Most residential leases contain a clause terminating the contract if you are unable to assume occupancy. Landlord should then return any rent and security deposits
What reason do you have to believe the person won’t vacate on the 1st? If they’ve stated as much, it’s important for the landlord to know. Burlington has some of the most tenant-friendly rental laws in the US, which in this case could work against you. If the landlord has to evict this person, it could take a long time if they are being truly stubborn about it. Try to figure out a plan B and hope for the best. If you have a signed lease, you do have the right to be in the place when the lease starts, even if this other person didn’t leave yet.
What's the landlord's take on this?
To be clear, the current tenant doesn't have to, and shouldn't be expected to move out until 11:59 PM December 31st.
I feel like we need more info here to offer relevant advice... You say "the lease is signed", does that mean that you and your friend have signed the lease that starts on January 1? Or does it mean you friend has signed the lease and you've been invited to join your friend in the apartment? Has the "current person in the room I'm taking" signed anything? All those are important points to determine who has legal standing in this case.
To reiterate what has already been said, the lease isn’t up so they don’t have to do anything. Maybe they haven’t found an apt to move to? Ask them if they need help and don’t be a dick about it.
Easiest course of action is to bribe them to leave.
That’s how I got my squatter to fuck off. 1,500$ (and the months of sublet rent I never collected). I wonder how that psychopath is doing these days…
How did you go about doing that? Physically there as they moved their stuff and handed key to you. Then they got paid?
All belongings gone, key in hand, cash paid. (Had the locksmith waiting to rekey the locks immediately)
What do you think would be a sensible amount to offer? 2,000?
Start low if you can. Offer a 1000 and tell them they get the cash when they move their stuff and hand over the key. Document the exchange as well, even if just a cell phone video of what is taking place.
Sounds like you aren't going to be moving in with your friend on the 1st...
Get drums.
Cut your losses, look for another place. Bad vibes.
Why would they move out before their lease is up? They have every right to finish out their lease, you move in on the month your lease begins not the day you sign papers. Check the dates closely or speak with the landlord
Can't force them to move until the lease is up
They are entitled to be their untill the last second of the lease. Not much can be done.
https://www.vermontjudiciary.org/civil/landlord-tenant
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Edit: added tldr
You do not need a cause to evict under these circumstances:
None of this applies in this circumstance, as the OP is not the property owner, and therefore lacks standing.
Also note, the process of eviction takes many months right now, as the court system is backlogged. Expect 90-180 days for results.
Source: literally just finished an eviction that started in April 2022.
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Welcome to Vermont. Squatters can do as they wish and the police are trying to prove a point to the state government, so they aggressively won't do shit.
Be exceedingly careful whom you let into your house, because right now the process of getting them out is completely busted.
Sorry this isn't helpful but I wonder how much of the housing shortage comes from VT law limiting landlord rights. I considered renting out part of my house but heard so many of these horror stories I figured it wasn't worth it
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Have your landlord issue an eviction notice with both your names on it. Then they will leave and you will stay
You're on the lease, but they aren't? You have an unwanted houseguest. Act accordingly.
Change locks, issue edict; "2 days to vacate, or your shit will be on the sidewalk at 3pm xday"
End of issue.
And when all of their stuff on the sidewalk is stolen, they can come sue you for property value and emotional distress. Right or wrong, the law is in the squatter's favor here.
You can't squat in an occupied domicile; they are unwanted guests. if they cause a confrontation, police should respond immediately (yes, I know)...
If they have been there for over a month OR moved in their possessions, OR changed their mailing address they have established tenants protections
Sorry, squatter is probably the wrong term given it has an existing legal meaning. They're still legal tenants that have tenant's rights. The landlord would need to go through the proper eviction process.
peace; I believe I misunderstood the original occupancy condition of the 3rd party...
Can you legally do that? I have always wondered if you can move in with squatters on a place you own and just throw their shit out like I don't NEED this in MY place anymore. If they tried to assault you, could you call the police like its a domestic assault? Its such a head trip to me that people can literally take over your home you own.
No. Even in an air bnb situation if they’ve been there for over a month they have tenants rights
Thanks. Always wondered when I see people dealing with that.
Definitely not how it works in Vermont and even if it was, only the property owner has standing.
Basically, no.
If someone at one time was invited to stay, which they were, they have their stuff there even, they now have the rights of renters in VT.
Make your place an AirBnB and then when they don't pay their nightly hotel fee, you can have the cops make em leave. Odd how renting vs hotel situations compare.
That’s amazing! This is such an interesting legal subject.
sicknutley t1_j1ukbfm wrote
Move in with them in the room, assert dominance, and use their toothbrush.