Wife and I recently escaped the Theocratic Republic of Indiana and feel similar gratitude and appreciation for the great state of Vermont.

Ha! Maple scented insanity should be the state motto

yep, happy southern ex-pat here. Escaped from Tn and Miss

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As a fellow midwesterner by birth it’s why I love Vermont. There’s something about being able to see a horizon in every direction that is man-made (concrete or crops) that depresses the hell outta me.

Still, there is something to say about living in the upper class liberal parts of the south - especially tech areas. The people are nicer, food is better, community is more diverse, the taxes and cost of living is lower, customer service is still a thing - so is same day delivery and getting a tradesperson to your home on the same day you need them. Raleigh will always hold a special place in my heart. Too bad the rest of the state exists.

Happy NYC ex-pat here. I love being able to drive past rolling fields and mountains with nothing in between us. I hope it never changes.

Sorry for you. It was always a society that pushed for conformity, but when I grew up, folks went to church but weren't militant about it. That's very different now. I once was helping my mom get roofing quotes, and one of the roofers wanted to talk to me about jesus.

As someone born and raised in Atlanta this rang true to me. Peachtree City is a special kind of hell. Never go OTP.

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I was born in Vermont, but when I was a kid my dad got a job in Atlanta. Holy shit. It took me years but I finally made it back home! Never leaving Vermont again ( except on trips, but even those will have to be very compelling).

"I don't think I've ever been so happy to see a Welcome to Vermont sign in my life."

That's me, every time I come home from a visit with any of my widely scattered family.

The "Welcome to Vermont" sign feels like a warm hug.

Welcome home... ¯\_( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯

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New Hampshire has a politician named Vermin Supreme.

Maple Scented Insanity should run for Governor of Vermont!

>flatlanders that keep trying to make Vermont more like wherever they came from

In my case, this is apparently why we can't have sidewalks (this was also why it took forever to pass recreational cannabis sales & open shops). Crazy that nimbys don't consider public safety when you have kids walking home from school on the side of the road.

Vermont is in America and Nimbyism sucks.

Edit: when changes are discussed in your locale more people need to ask themselves what really makes Vermont, Vermont; and we should then ask if the changes proposed actually threaten that, because most of the time it doesn't. Some people believe no gay marriage allowed makes Vermont, Vermont (hence the take back Vermont bs). At one point there used to be more cows than people, and a lot of the forests we have now are because Vermont used to have a lot more farm land that has since grown over. Should we clear cut the trees to make Vermont, Vermont again by bringing the sheep farms back too?

Vermont was also the first to abolish slavery, shall we exile everyone who flies confederate flags here, or ban the flag itself, since Vermont was never a part of it and was openly against slavery before emancipation?

Because Vermont is a seedbed of change, and sometimes it's even ahead of the game! Americans traveling from other American states to this state in America are not trying to make it Boston part 2. You can catch up to this century and still preserve it. I think a lot of people confuse preservation with never changing anything. But if your house is already rotting now, you're not doing anyone a favor by leaving it dilapidated for the next generation. . .

Low wages and unaffordable housing should not stay the same and it's not a big idea to suggest we should change that.

Vermont's biggest problem is changing nothing and then being shocked when nothing changes.

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As someone who currently lives in Georgia and is planning to move my family to Vermont, this post really resonates with me. I can’t wait to get the fuck out of this state.

as much as I love Vermont I think this unfairly maligns the South. There is much to love about that terribly complicated place, as there is up here

that being said, some places feel more like home than others, especially when considering personal situations, and if that's Vermont for you then I'm glad you've made it back

I moved here from another state in the Midwest. Vermont is like a little private slice of heaven compared to some other places in the US I've lived in.

I just gave someone shit in another thread for claiming that the Stowe rec path is quiet, now I'm just realizing that to most people it IS quiet.

Unfortunately a lot of the folks who come to enjoy the quiet also ruin it...

Speaking of Maple scented insanity, I was on I89 yesterday and watched someone with ZERO cars anywhere near them (I was a solid 1/4 mile behind them and we were the only two cars within eyesight) switch to the left lane for zero reason whatsoever. No obstruction, no one to pass, no danger, no sign, just decided randomly between Milton and Georgia that they wanted to be in the left lane doing 63. I crept up at about 70 and passed on the right and the nice older gentleman gave me a pleasant wave as I glanced at him perplexed. Kinda like those absolute goofballs who will literally stop the flow of traffic to let you out into it - and not like let you out into slow bumper to bumper traffic but like full on stop a busy roadway that is flowing at 40mph to enthusiastically wave you out into the road and then feel fucking AWESOME about the good deed that they just did (nevermind the two fender benders and multiple delayed people that resulted from it).

Listen, I came up here with an air of superiority to myself. "I learned to drive in Atlanta, you got nothing on me!"

It took one green plate speed demon passing me on slush to be immediately humbled.

Nearly the same, except from Minnesota, which really feels like flatter, wetter Vermont. My husband's an upstate new yorker, we were dying to get back north. Now we will never leave!

I will concede there is a distinct aura of convenience around those areas too. I find it needs balance though, being able to go out and get anything I need at any moment is too alluring!

I used to work at the PTC pharmacy right between the trailer park and the high school.

Never has a job nearly convinced me to shoot myself mid-shift but I didn't want to think about the crowd of golf carts that'd surround me to watch and complain about the wait.

This!! Parts of driving south are so soulless. Coming over a hill to see a sea of retail outlets is so sad.

You will say it is worth it every moment of the day! Finding a place to live was the hardest struggle but never have I ever thought it was not what I wanted.

Airline pilots in their golf carts. McMansions everywhere. Such a weird place.

Oh it's a vast assumption, I admit that knowingly. I lived in the south for a long time and it would be so narrow-minded to say nothing was of value.

Like, Atlanta is probably the best city I've ever been in for concerts and know I probably won't have it that good again up here.

I’m glad you made it! I have lived in four states and haven’t found anything like it on either coast. I can’t wait to move!

Yeah it’s a completely different skill set for sure!

>>Vermont was also the first to abolish slavery, shall we exile everyone who flies confederate flags here, or ban the flag itself, since Vermont was never a part of it and was openly against slavery before emancipation?

Yes.

I dont like them either, but they're the same types with "take back Vermont" signs too, so should we abolish gay marriage because it doesn't make Vermont, Vermont to them?

Frankly what does make Vermont, Vermont? And how does affordable housing, higher wages, cannabis dispensaries, and better pedestrian access take away from that?

People love the natural landscape, yet it's ruined entirely by power lines which some people argue is a facet of the landscape itself! We all know it's a lame excuse to do nothing, and the fear of outsiders trying to make Vermont something it's not is just absurd.

We should be able to say what it is first before being so afraid of what it shouldn't be. I have yet to meet anyone afraid of change who can.

>>Crazy that nimbys don't consider public safety when you have kids walking home from school on the side of the road.

Or wireless towers for expanded broadband coverage, or renewable energy generation for our climate aspirations. Who wouldn’t want sidewalks?

>>when changes are discussed in your locale more people need to ask themselves what really makes Vermont, Vermont; and we should then ask if the changes proposed actually threaten that, because most of the time it doesn't.

Well said.

>>At one point there used to be more cows than people, and a lot of the forests we have now are because Vermont used to have a lot more farm land that has since grown over. Should we clear cut the trees to make Vermont, Vermont again by bringing the sheep farms back too?

I suspect a some people’s misplaced sentimentality about overcrowded forests that aren’t even old growth gets in the way of forestry practices that would actually promote a healthier ecosystem. “bUt yOu CaNT cHop dOwn TrEes!” they say, though.

>>I think a lot of people confuse preservation with never changing anything. But if your house is already rotting now, you're not doing anyone a favor by leaving it dilapidated for the next generation. . .

Excellent point. It’s incredibly frustrating to see so much crappy housing stock that people try to pass off as “quaint” or “having character” or “being unique,” as though being “unique” is an end in and of itself, even if it is uniquely bad.

Also: God forbid we build high rises or allow for increased density in our urban areas (That was sarcasm). It grinds my gears that people complain about a lack of affordable housing in the same breath as opposing development of denser housing.

You got this!
Nah, a lot of people come here from cities thinking we're slow hillbillies for how we drive, and very confidently zoom straight off the road. As long as nobody dies, we kiiiind of think it's hilarious. Deer and black ice come out of NOWHERE up here.
ETA one time in high school my friends and I were taking it slow on the highway in winter when a Mass plate shot by with a middle finger up. Three miles later they had a car full of high schoolers laughing and waving at them as we went by them sitting in the ditch.

I don't think we need high rises in small towns to have more affordable housing, and the town i moved to just before the pandemic has been having the sidewalk debate for years. my neighbor, who is around my age aka millennial, is from Vermont and says it was a big issue when they were a child. It's silly! We also have unelected positions on our select board and it drives me nuts because they don't do anything!

Edit: I don't want to chop down the trees either, but they are an example of change that has taken place in the state that some would refuse to recognize for the convenience of their stagnant attitude.

I lived in Littlefork for a few years. Can confirm. Oh, and they get tornados there too.

I went to Atlanta for a wedding - it was a neat place. The suburbs are really pretty and Rhodes Hall (the venue) was gorgeous. However I enjoyed coming back into Vermont.

>>I dont like them either, but they're the same types with "take back Vermont" signs too, so should we abolish gay marriage because it doesn't make Vermont, Vermont to them?

Nope. If they’re going to fly the traitors’ flag, then send them packing. Vermont sent over ten percent of its population to fight in the Civil War, and had the second most fatalities per capita, according to at least one scholar. We were also the site of the northern-most action in the Civil War, the St. Albans Raid. They can’t have it both ways, embracing the Confederacy and its symbols while claiming to be “real” Vermonters with a monopoly on what makes Vermont Vermont.

I think we don’t actually disagree about NIMBYism in Vermont, so I’ll address your other points in the other sub-thread, time permitting.

ETA: To be perfectly clear, if they don’t like same-sex marriage regardless of whether they have confederate sympathies or not, they can still move to another state. If Vermont is anything, it’s a democracy, and that’s how we got (albeit awkwardly with the whole civil union thing) to marriage equality, here.

Unelected positions on your Select Board? Never heard of such a thing. Maybe you mean “ran unopposed “, a very different thing. And if you want change, run for a position. Many Vermont towns have a hard time finding people to take these poorly paid, time-consuming, and thankless positions.

Right?!?! And it’s like all the same. Out where my parents live it’s all domino’s pizza and LA Tan. How many LA TANs DOES ONE STRIP OF CONCRETE EVEN NEEEEEED Ugh ugh ugh.

I feel your sentiment. I moved from South Florida in May and am going back to Florida for a wedding next week. I can't wait to miss Vermont and hate Florida more than I already did. Vermont really is a special place for me and I'm glad it exists. But you're from Georgia and I know how Georgia can be in some parts. It's more of the same but at least you're not an actual flat lander like me 😂

"Manufactured hell" - Can't say it better than that!

TBH i dont even care if the majority of it (VT or even greater America itself ) goes against the rights that the LGBT community have had recognized. These are basic rights inherent to any and all self aware entities. Those who stand against such deserve no place in a civilized society.

When i was in the service i spent some time in the midwest, It was a snapshot of the layers of hills and mountains from here that helped me keep my sanity,lol. It's just so... Dull out there, nothing to draw the eye and make the mind wonder, what's over that hill?

No Billboards!

Good State flag though

My sister is out in the DFW area. I feel this post in my bones.

My wife and I feel the same way when we go back to southern Michigan. It starts getting depressing when we hit metro Toronto or western NY on our way back.

It's much better than the one it replaced.

It's a democracy, until someone doesn't want a rehab in town

Edit: im also using take back & the Confederate flags as an example of how "this is what makes Vermont, Vermont" is flawed logic.

Nope. They are unelected

Maybe they have a hard time because anyone who comes in and has ideas™ is called a flatlander & rejected outright lol

I felt the same about driving to Texas from Vermont to visit family last summer. I started to feel like I could breathe again when I reached upstate New York and the relief was palpable when crossing back into Vermont.

Most people love manufactured hell though, and more power to them. They can do their thing over there, and I’ll have space to do mine over here.

Yeah it’s not too shabby

I was just having this conversation with someone today. The only places worth visiting and living in the South are liberal areas, like Raleigh or Asheville. I lived in Raleigh for about a year before I moved in with my boyfriend who lives in a more conservative city because of his job. The difference is night and day. Unless you live in a liberal hub down here, all you get are shitty chains, shitty food, and unfriendly people.

housing is tough to find here right now. If I had to go back to TN I would go to east TN, maybe near Johnson city.

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Vermont's a constitutional republic and your claim of Vermont being a democracy is just as aggravatingly false and misleading as calling Vermont a monarchy.

I will always come back to VT. It’s like a reset. Often on this sub I bash the state in a sick attempt to make myself not miss it so much.

It is a glorious sight to behold no matter from whence I came.

I moved here 2 years ago from Florida. I’ve always been into punk/hardcore/metal so I started seeking out shows/bands in the state and was absolutely delighted to find out that VT hardcore is commonly referred to as “Maple Violence” as a genre and I’ve never been more in love with a two word phrase.

It’s something I always brag about to friends from out of state. I always tell them that you can go to the coolest hiking trail or a really quaint park or an amazing waterfall and you’ll have the place to yourself. You might see a few other people but maybe see none. Everywhere I ever went in Colorado that was awesome was packed with people same for Massachusetts. Vermont there are just less of us

Uh oh. Wikipedia deep dive incoming.

reads

Oh yuck it's a State flag.

Maybe it's a sign that we too could get back to a good flag someday?

Luckily I think we snuck in some really good stuff in the last legislative term right? Like, iirc by-right 4plex creation and 1/8 acre minimum lots if you're on town water and sewer? Or am I totally off base there?

Either way seeing our State work with the Congress for the New Urbanism was really encouraging. There's a way to keep an authentic Vermont that isn't unlivable and I think there's the will there if we just keep hope.

Well beans I think I was wrong here. Maybe this year!

Vermont is beautiful and all, but please, the south is not a monolith. It’s full a great cities, nature, and culture, not to mention diversity that Vermont definitely does not have. Please understand that these places and experiences you’re referring sound crappy, and I’m sorry for you, but they do not represent the entire southeast.

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Instantaneous interstate butthole depucker-er.

It's as misleading as treating the state as if it doesn't belong to a greater collection of 50, as a part of the United States of America. . .

"Maple Violence"?!?

I love that

Well put. We don’t travel quite as south to visit family but there are nightmarish Peachtree Cities all over America these days, so what you said really resonates. Welcome home!

Wahoo. You’re welcome!!!

Your point that there’s a distinction between direct democracy and constitutional republicanism is well taken.

However, I think it’s a bit hyperbolic to say my “claim of Vermont being a democracy is just as aggravatingly false and misleading as calling Vermont a monarchy.”

Consider that Vermont’s executive, the governor, is popularly elected, as are its legislators (let’s set aside debates over ranked-choice voting, for now). Even the judiciary is indirectly subject to a popular vote with judicial retention, with judges periodically needing approval from the popularly-elected legislature in order to remain on the bench. Consider also Town Meeting Day, during which direct democracy takes place in many municipalities across the state—perhaps its notable that every municipality in Vermont (except for the unincorporated gores) was created by an act of the popularly elected legislature.

Apropos of the subject at hand, same-sex marriage, it’s worth glossing over the history of Vermont’s path to marriage equality. First there was a lawsuit that made it to the Vermont Supreme Court, which held that the Legislature had to come up with a scheme to guarantee the same rights to same-sex couples as cis-heterosexual couples. The General Assembly then passed and the governor signed the law allowing for civil unions, which accorded a version of marriage equality with regard to the legal rights and responsibilities that attend civil marriage (It’s still not full equality if you can’t call such unions “marriages” though).

It’s late and I’m too lazy to check Wikipedia or Google, but if I’m recalling correctly, Vermont may have been the first state to legislatively enact legal rights for same-sex couples. It’s an important distinction from states that initially based marriage equality solely on high court decisions (or the U.S. as a whole, for that matter), because the fact that our laws regarding equal rights for same-sex couples were brought about legislatively speaks on some level to popular will; it’s a more “democratic” way to do things than merely having a panel of learned jurists enjoin discrimination against same-sex couples.

This is a big stretch, but some time after the passage of the civil union laws, Vermont might have been the first state to legislatively recognize same-sex marriages, outright, and with many fewer political consequences for legislators who voted for it than for certain legislators who did not get re-elected after they voted to pass the civil union law. I might be totally wrong about that, so please fact-check me. I’m too lazy to look it up at the moment.

Again, where legislators theoretically effect the will of the majority of their constituencies, I think it’s fair to characterize that as “democratic.” It’s hardly monarchical, at any rate. Marriage equality in Vermont did not happen by royal or even executive fiat. Neither was it solely the product of a court decision—it took acts from a democratically-elected legislature.

You can get aggravated and split hairs about whether Vermont is a “democracy” or a “constitutional republic” (couldn’t that be characterized as a kind of democracy?), but that misses the point: Vermonters wanted same-sex couples to enjoy the same rights as cis-het couples, and had people representing them who made it happen.

Those affluent liberal areas are built off the exploitation of slave labor (and segregation after the civil war) and the continued existence of a laboring class that can barely afford to put a roof over thier heads and food on the table (which continues to be mostly minorities). The hierarchy that exists and is perpetrated in the south is magnitudes worse than anything that exists up here. And Customer service, you mean the labor class that has to pretend to be nice to you or else they could fall into further poverty?

Yahoo! Another Floridian in VT!! ☺️.. I don’t miss anything about FL other than diversity (mostly about food and music) and my friends and fam. Everything else I rather bring them here than go there. Beaches are great and all but I rather go elsewhere for a beach vacation than deal with parking and driving over there, to say the least.

Only thing I miss about NYC is music and my friends. But I still try to convince them to move here heheh

You live in the whitest state in America. STFU LOL

Here's the breakdown of where I lived in a burb of Raleigh: Asian (Non-Hispanic) (39.3%), White (Non-Hispanic) (38.1%), Black or African American (Non-Hispanic) (12.4%), Two+ (Non-Hispanic) (4.57%), and White (Hispanic) (1.98%).

80% were US Citizens. Not too segregationist, eh? Which way did Vermont go from the Civil War?

"Don't want to change a thing...."

"We need more housing and economic growth..."

Folks, there's nothing special or unique about Vermont compared to a dozen other states. The difference is Vermont has chosen to protect and insulate itself from the very type of growth y'all excoriate when you go to other states.

There are other mountainous states (seriously, the mountains in Idaho make those in Vermont look like cute little bumps). There are other rural and pastoral states. There are other cold weather states.

But Vermont has been able to escape much of those growth and development which has, frankly, ruined some of those other states. But that comes at a cost - which is expensive housing, poor infrastructure, and lack of economic opportunity. Vermont is a gated resort, and that's the charm.

You start to go down the path of embracing growth and development, it will absolutely look just like everywhere else (otherwise it would be too expensive and wouldn't pencil out).

Fair warning from someone watching their state be decimated by growth and development.

I live in MA. Whenever I hit the VT state line, I take a deep breath.

The air is different, and there's a different vibe.

Are you so fucking dense as to think that any of what you posted counters what I literally said? The reason those areas have the money they do is literally because of the wealth they stole while being built, and maintained through the exploitative system we live in. It has nothing to do with the current racial breakdown of any specific area. But look here, it's a liberal who would rather ignore the reality of how those wealthy liberal areas built their weath and then blame the rest of the state for their reactionary politics.

Weird, because Raleigh, NC had a pretty extensive redlining policy in effect long after the passing of the Civil Rights act. Wonder if that had anything to do with generational wealth unable to be built in impoverished communities.

And if you think I have problems with just the south, wait until you hear what I think needs to be done to correct the harms done to the indigenous communities in the US both north and south.

Vermont doesn't have the same issues that I noted in the same way, because Vermont wasn't built from slave plantations. But never once did I claim that Vermont doesn't benefit from the underlying white supremacist hierarchy in America.

Ah yes. The Research Triangle (look it up) is booming right now because of slavery.

Anyways, by your logic, you just said you live in a place that benefits from white supremacy so your points are as moot as mine.

Take that same energy into the activist community, but please don't make your thesis "You should hate everywhere you live and feel guilty you fucking scumbag." I didn't ask to be born.

I'm well aware of the research triangle. I spent time both in High Point and in Raleigh. Are you saying that the wealth generated by the unpaid labor of slaves just vanished after the civil war? What a moronic statement. Guess what, it's almost like those buildings were built using slave labor and the communities that built them were able to build almost no generational wealth due to the economic policies in those regions both before and after the civil war.

You did it! We live in a society therefore we cannot criticize the negative parts of it! What an excellent worldview, I'm sure that leads to great improvement and not a constant stagnation and continuation of the status quo, even when it's inherently harmful to the general population.

Never said you had to hate it, just said you had to recognize it. You seem to have some trouble with reading comprehension. That next day labor and smiling customer service you see down in the south? Yeah, it's there because of the radial effects of slavery and continued poverty. Doesn't mean you need to hate it, just means you need to see it and acknowledge it. Vermont's tourism dollars and farm subsidies? You guessed it, tied to white supremacy and the removal of indigenous peoples from their land. I'm not the one who is ignoring it and trying to make excuses for it. That's you.

No shit bud, none of us asked to be born. But some of us are making excuses for the negative shit perperuated by society and some of us are working to correct those things

Ah, I see what you're doing. But virtue signaling isn't like an FSA - you can roll some over into next year. Hope that helps!

Billboards are the difference maker.

Sorry reality makes you uncomfortable. Don't worry, you're just as much a garbage human being no matter where you live. Hope that helps!

Lol cool. BYW, your blind rage needs focus if you're going to change the world - you just spent 5 hours of your life internet-screaming at someone who is at least as left - if not farther - than you.

Good fucking job.

This is a profoundly ignorant take

Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds

Said left not liberal - take your canned, college-freshman fervor back to the Bruins fanboi boards lol

Thank you for being the voice of reason. I’m a damn Yankee myself, but I can’t stand the classic New England smugness about being ignorant of what a vast and diverse part of the country is like.

Even before I went down there for grad school and wound up with a Texan partner (pardner?) I felt that way, but it’s especially eye roll worthy for me now

I didnt think that the by-right 4-plex bill passed, but I’d be thrilled to be wrong

Please point to these "unelected selectboard positions" within the state of Vermont.

I don't want to say exactly where I live, so here's what the deal is in Stowe

"The Town Manager is appointed by the Selectboard and serves as the Chief Executive Officer of the Town of Stowe. The Manager is responsible to the Selectboard for the day-to-day administration of local government. He is responsible for hiring and overseeing all non-elected employees, recommending budgets to the Selectboard and advising them, and ensuring that local government services are provided in a professional manner that is consistent with their policy direction."

So it is a thing and it's not just in my town either! The fact that many people don't know this should be a cause for concern, and we should raise our concerns about it.

Edit: East Montpelier has non elected officials as well

As someone who lived in Midtown, Buckhead, and Kirkwood for 16 years - and moved back home to VT to raise my kids, I feel everything about this post.

And my God that drive sucks. Don’t miss it one bit.

Edit: Peachtree City? Did your family own a golf cart?

So this is not a position on the select board. edit You are clearly conflating "Town officals" with "Selectboard members". Learn the difference.

In my town several select board members are unelected, even the editor of the local paper told me this. There are unelected positions in other towns as well.

I don't want anyone making any decisions for a town to be unelected, and they are. Besides doxxing myself, what else do you want?

Well damn I think you're right, by https://legislature.vermont.gov/bill/passed/2022#both-house-and-senate

I don't want anything. I believe that you are wrong, I've asked for concrete examples. I totally understand your desire to privacy, but without providing any additional info, all I can say is...I believe that you are conflating "The selectboard appoints a person to a town position" and "Selectboard members are not elected" (again w/the exception).

If you want the full text: https://www.pantonvt.us/uploads/3/1/6/7/31673701/handbook_for_vermont_selectboards_1-9.pdf

Welp that doesn't change what everyone I've inquired about this with has told me: some select board positions are unelected.

You can believe what you want, multiple people who work for my town have made it painfully clear that I'm not.

Ask around. You may be surprised..

Edit: I'm not reading an entire handbook on this. Can you point me to where it discusses this issue specifically? Which chapter of the document covers this?

We call Atlanta suburbalon.

I completely agree. It might be that the Dodge Rams tailgating you through NH turn into Subarus minding the right lane, but I’m pretty sure it’s just that everyone is friendlier and time slows way down.

So a marriage that a battered spouse can never leave.

We're American, cope.

They really are. They're trash and I forget other states have them everywhere until I venture across state lines. Instant trash.

^ this is the type of people you get in Vermont. Exactly why I moved out

My wife and I are moving to Vermont next summer, and she’s from Peachtree City… what a small world! We were just back in Georgia to visit her family for Christmas. That place blows. Where we live right now in NC (suburban Winston-Salem) is ranked one of the least walkable urban areas in the entire US, so not much better. This whole corner of the country is humid, gross, expensive, busy and miserable.

I’m from northern Michigan so a lot of Vermont is pretty much just a better version of where I grew up. We visited & house-hunted in central VT a few months ago and can’t wait to make the move. Truly planning & readying ourselves to embrace an old house, a tiny town, and the rural Vermonter way of living.

Vermont, as a colony, was founded upon the benefits of the slave trade as was every English, Dutch, Potrtugese and French colony of the era. Abolishing slavery earlier is a very narrow distinction.

And we continued to discriminate against Catholics, Jews and POC until the last 50 years.