Submitted by lottabigbluewater t3_10p3oxf in vermont
Unique-Public-8594 t1_j6i426r wrote
Because our oil furnace broke last May, We put in a heat pump in November. Bosch with auxiliary heating coils to help when temperatures are very low. Financed. Because it is a historically significant home, we used mostly existing ductwork (adding some floor vents) rather than mini splits. We are all electric with back-up whole house propane generator.
Approx 1400 sf. No zones. Home is Insulated but very leaky windows.
Heat pump including install, electric upgrade at pole, generator upgrade, cost $22k all in. Monthly payment roughly $300.
December electric bill was about $300. Expecting lower spring, summer and fall.
Would like to add solar. Just pacing our home improvements.
Cease_Cows_ t1_j6i5gb2 wrote
Just as a counterpoint to this because we're currently experiencing it: Good luck getting your heat pump serviced if/when it breaks. My understanding is that, while new units are still being made, parts for repair are basically nonexistent. Our $20,000 heat pump system dramatically cut our heating costs for 2 years, and now has sat broken waiting on a new compressor for the last 2 years. I'm considering tearing out the head units because just looking at them makes me angry.
Aperron t1_j6ioy3d wrote
This is a pretty common situation sadly.
The parts are model specific, and models refresh very frequently so the parts for a given model are only produced for a very short time.
Additionally heat pumps regardless of manufacturer aren’t really designed with repair in mind to begin with. A lot of mechanical techs consider them to basically be similar to a very expensive disposable window unit. Even if you do all the preventative maintenance (which is quite involved, better hope the indoor heads are placed so they can be fully disassembled yearly) they’re unlikely to make it to 15 years of service life. Many people see less than 5 before they’re beyond economical repair.
Cease_Cows_ t1_j6ir8c1 wrote
yeah a lot of that jives with what I've discovered as well. It's crazy how the government is pushing these as a panacea when, at least at the moment they're giant money pits that don't seem like they'll possibly lead to enough savings to cover their installation costs.
BoBab t1_j6ix2mc wrote
Yea this has all been very illuminating for me to read. The YT vids on heat pumps never talk about the longevity, reliability, or repairability.
jj3449 t1_j6kvy2q wrote
The issue is when they try to push the envelope. Get a 12-13 seer unit and all is good but if you get one of these magic 23 seer units that will work in New England down to 10 degrees and every motor is variable speed this is what you end up with.
Such-Evidence-4745 t1_j6ojwm6 wrote
A lot of high efficiency stuff seems like that. Looks good on paper but the more complex design seems to break more often and there don't seem to be any techs who know how they work. My parents had a high end boiler installed and it took them along time to find some one who could actually service it instead of just randomly swapping parts. And the thing had issues like 2 years after they got it. Who cares how efficient something is if its broken all the time?
Didn't know that heat pumps were the same deal though, sounds worse to be honest.
Unique-Public-8594 t1_j6i5meo wrote
Brand?
Cease_Cows_ t1_j6i60bn wrote
Mitsubishi.
WantDastardlyBack t1_j6jlj6p wrote
Some of this could tie into the issue that I have to write about constantly for an HVAC company down south. January 1st, the government upgraded to SEER2 ratings, so some older heat pumps and central and mini-split systems are no longer in compliance.
It's making HVAC technicians down there struggle to find parts that meet the new SEER2 ratings, and if they had any remaining stock that isn't in compliance with the new ratings, they can't install anything legally. I don't know how this plays out up here, but I know my client has been heavily focused on pointing out that it's going to be trickier to get some parts for older equipment.
Aperron t1_j6js4kz wrote
Different issue.
Mini splits just generally aren’t designed to be overly serviceable from the start. Unlike a traditional central AC system where the components are usually fairly universal and can be mixed and matched, they’re generally proprietary and model specific with the model lines refreshing every year or two with little to no parts compatibility between refresh cycles.
Lots of small plastic parts and clips, delicate mechanisms with tight tolerances and electronics that fail with the slightest power surge or just from normal use due to being designed so tightly to spec for efficiency.
lottabigbluewater OP t1_j6i4b3m wrote
May I ask about your square footage? $300/month for heating in December is much, much less than I paid in oil. Are you glad you took the leap to getting a heat pump? I'm sure your long term savings are going to be absolutely worth it, but I'm also sure that monthly payment hurts right now...
Unique-Public-8594 t1_j6i4nh3 wrote
We are very glad (shocked at our relatively low electric bill) but next week’s temperatures will be the true test and that cost won’t show up in billing til next month.
Added sf as edit. 1400sf mostly open. 2 bedrooms but neither has a door, one bedroom is tiny so door would get in the way, other bedroom is more of an open loft to stairway, low no-dormered upstairs peaked ceiling. Huge, antique windows on south facing side: very leaky but lots of passive solar though. We need to get Button-up Vermont in here but have delayed due to covid.
So… $300/mo loan, plus $300 electric heat/appliances/lighting.
Feeling positive about getting off fossil fuel and onto electric since Vermont doesn’t use fossil fuel for their electric grid. Thank you, Vermont.
We had an old antique pot-belly wood stove but it was creating smoke indoors so we removed it. Very happy to have cleaner air quality.
Heat pump was noisy at first but it was an easy fix, it was a loose filter.
ryan10e t1_j6imzs4 wrote
Vermont may not use fossil fuels for electricity, but ISO New England does generate around 40% of its electricity from gas, tiny amount from coal, plus imports from NYISO and New Brunswick. That said, your heating related emissions are still probably 10x lower with the heat pump than from gas/oil. Can’t wait to join the heat pump gang.
[deleted] t1_j6ihlny wrote
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ImpossibleMeatDonut t1_j6mhu4n wrote
It’s been a long time since I had to worry about a heat pump. However, if I remember, heat pumps can only heat at certain temperatures. Once it gets below like 20 ( honestly can’t remember the cut off temp ), the emergency heat kicks in. That’s when your electric bill will go up considerably. Again, my knowledge is probably limited and out dated.
Careful_Square1742 t1_j6mkuy6 wrote
depends how you're set up. ducted heat pumps can run down to sub-zero temps. When paired with a condensing gas furnace (LP or natural), the heat pump shuts off and switches to fossil fuel around 20 degrees, meaning heating above 20F is done by the heat pump which is incredibly efficient.
​
you're probably thinking of electric resistance heating (like a giant toaster). Those aren't even allowed in VT anymore in commercial buildings under VT Energy Code (except VERY specific cases).
Unique-Public-8594 t1_j6mmnn4 wrote
Thanks for your response.
Ours has an auxiliary heating coil for colder temps.
It was bitter cold in December but the electric bill was manageable. But also we’ll see what the Jan and Feb cost us. So, so far I’m a fan. I know, people are saying it will be broken and no parts available in 2 years. We’ll see.
Careful_Square1742 t1_j6mzmi5 wrote
I wouldn't worry too much - I think the people saying it'll die and you can't get parts are the outliers. I've got one in my house going on year 4 with zero issues beyond a loose nut that was making noise. it'll make heat without issue Friday night when it's crazy cold.
I used to be in commercial HVAC and oversaw installation of literally thousands of heat pump systems in VT. we serviced thousands more and maybe had a dozen lemons. that's a pretty good ratio. parts availability since 2020 has been problematic, but that's across the board from cars to refrigerators. it's getting better. overall, heat pumps are pretty reliable if you take care of them.
Unique-Public-8594 t1_j6n0ee5 wrote
Thank you.
ImpossibleMeatDonut t1_j6msam3 wrote
You are right, I was thinking of the electric resistance heating. Thanks for the clarification.
We lived in an apartment that had the electric baseboard heat. For our tiny apartment, we regularly got $250+ electric bills in the winter. There was a lot wrong in that apartment though, including single pane windows.
NessunAbilita t1_j6jnlj8 wrote
Hey friendo, could you DM me about your ductwork for heat pumps? I also want to do this with the age of our home being what it is, but am getting a lot of humming and hawing from our heating guys. Would love to hear more somIncan speak confidently
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